the truth about FL

Jimmy M. said:
I do wonder why some people are enamored with FL. I think that some people really want to believe his outrageous claims because, if they were true ... now that would be something interesting and fun to hear about.

Now, before anyone suggests that I can't say these things because I can't run a rack of straight pool without touching a rail, or hit 11 rails, or whatever - I've never tried. There are rails on the pool table for a reason, and I use them. If I tried to run a rack of straight pool without touching a rail, I'm sure it wouldn't be long before I did it.
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Running a rack of Straight without touching a rail is more of a "looks good on paper" type of thing but IMO, isn't that significant in real life. Like you said, the rails are there for a reason. The better a player gets, the better he/she will use the rails for position. FL is taking a page from Jim Rempe, where Rempe does the same thing.

There are a few "problems" with FL's run:

He starts by using a less practical 14.1 break; ball hanging by side pocket, CB in kitchen, smashing into the rack with the CB flying all over the place.

He play's combos that you normally wouldn't in 14.1 when there are easier shots on the table. The combos were shot at to preserve the run.

FL caroms extra balls in; a couple/three times, balls were accidentally made in addition to the OB he was shooting at.



Eric
 
Theres a drill that you put up 10 balls in a circle on your table and try to run them without touching a rail.I have practiced this drill many times and it does require some luck not to touch a rail.I have only gotten out one time doing this drill.It is truly hard but it really dosnt prove anything.It will help with CB control and that is the reason for the drill.Oh yeah its fun. :cool:
 
Snapshot9 said:
I'm wrong, sorry. But I thought I remembered a little blurp
roll across the screen that the story was based on the
life of Eddie Felson, who was born and grew up in Junction City, Ks.
Jeesh, must of been one of those senior moments my mom talks about.
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I'd like to see where you saw that. Eddie Felson was a ficticious name. There was NEVER something that rolled across the screen that said it was based on an actual character. Tevis said the entire story was fiction, he made the whole thing up. BUT, it was ALSO an alias of Fast Eddie Parker. Do you know the story of Eddie Parker? Scott, you can flat out talk some shit yourself and make up some whoppers. I think your nose is growing...better go check it out in the mirror.
 
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bud green said:
When one pocket legend Ronnie Allen signed my Eddie Robins book, he signed it Ron "Fast Eddie" Allen. I think some people believe it was him Tevis based his character on.
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I think SOME PEOPLE do believe it was Ronnie Allen, and maybe even Ronnie Allen would like to think so. But if he or anyone else can show what stories they had in their life that Tevis used, I'd like to see them.

Fast Eddie Parker was in fact interviewed at great length by Tevis. Parker related a whole bunch of stories that happened to him over the years on the road. Tevis twisted them a little, never telling it exactly verbatim as Parker described it, but nevertheless used more of his life than anyone elses. Plus, Parker did use Felsen as an alias on the road. Did Ronnie Allen? I don't think so.
 
Fast Eddie Parker also passed a lie detector test to the fact(s). I was sorry to hear of his death, he was quite a character.
 
Jimmy M. said:
I do wonder why some people are enamored with FL. I think that some people really want to believe his outrageous claims because, if they were true ... now that would be something interesting and fun to hear about.

Now, before anyone suggests that I can't say these things because I can't run a rack of straight pool without touching a rail, or hit 11 rails, or whatever - I've never tried. There are rails on the pool table for a reason, and I use them. If I tried to run a rack of straight pool without touching a rail, I'm sure it wouldn't be long before I did it.
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I shot on a table with no rails before, I couldn't miss! Did that while we were in the process of breaking down all the tables at BC when it closed.
 
Eric. said:
Running a rack of Straight without touching a rail is more of a "looks good on paper" type of thing but IMO, isn't that significant in real life. Like you said, the rails are there for a reason. The better a player gets, the better he/she will use the rails for position. FL is taking a page from Jim Rempe, where Rempe does the same thing.

There are a few "problems" with FL's run:

He starts by using a less practical 14.1 break; ball hanging by side pocket, CB in kitchen, smashing into the rack with the CB flying all over the place.

He play's combos that you normally wouldn't in 14.1 when there are easier shots on the table. The combos were shot at to preserve the run.

FL caroms extra balls in; a couple/three times, balls were accidentally made in addition to the OB he was shooting at.



Eric
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I watched this video sometime back and I have to say I was less than impressed at his cueball control. If I recall correctly he misplayed position a number of times and yes his break shot was a little crazy, and how many rails did he hit? But it was novel and it has some value for beginners / mid level players.
 
i was really impressed by his jump-from-one-table-to-another-table-and-sink-6-balls shot until i learned he isn't doing a jump shot but using a ramp.
 
One of my practice routines is to throw up 15 balls on the table with no balls touching a rail and no clusters and then running them out without the cb touching a rail. Jim Rempe suggested doing that as practice in one of his Pool School tapes. I know it is much harder trying it from the break but it is a good practice regimen. When I practice this, if I miss a ball or touch a rail with the cb, I have to start over. Sometimes I'm really lucky and do it on the first run but most of the time it takes me a while to accomplish the task. It is a very good way to practice cb control, especially with draw shots.
 
Splinterhands said:
He's a legend. Maybe not at pool playing, but he will be remembered by millions as a player. How many people are going to remember Bud Green? FL is a legend.
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Have you had a CT scan of your brain lately? Johnny Archer is a legend, Earl Strickland is a legend, so are the likes of Mosconi, Hall, etc. Where does FL fit on this list?
 
sniper said:
Have you had a CT scan of your brain lately? Johnny Archer is a legend, Earl Strickland is a legend, so are the likes of Mosconi, Hall, etc. Where does FL fit on this list?
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Yeah, I never even heard of FL until I came to this board and he was literally ripping it apart seam by seam and I've been playing this game pretty seriously for the last 22 years. How can he be a legend then? Anyone else heard of him from any source other than the internet?
 
Now that I've been to his website, I recognize his face. I must have seen him somewhere, but he's definitely no legend.
 
drivermaker said:
Wrong again Scott!! There was "FAST" Eddie Parker who hustled on the road at times as Fast Eddie Felsen (with an "E"). Walter Tevis spoke with Parker before writing "The Hustler" as part of his research and then used Felson (with an "O") as the main character.
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In the movie "the Hustler" all the old timers knew they were portraying
"New York Fats" but didn't want to pay him the royalties so they used the name Minnesota Fats . Fats finally did get the gold, as he should have.
 
supercue said:
In the movie "the Hustler" all the old timers knew they were portraying
"New York Fats" but didn't want to pay him the royalties so they used the name Minnesota Fats . Fats finally did get the gold, as he should have.
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Which came out first?
The movie or the book?
Did the book have NY Fats?
 
supercue said:
In the movie "the Hustler" all the old timers knew they were portraying
"New York Fats" but didn't want to pay him the royalties so they used the name Minnesota Fats . Fats finally did get the gold, as he should have.
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Old timers like Willie Mosconi? He was friends with Walter Tevis and was the technical advisor for the movie. He said many, many times that the movie was not about Rudolph Wanderone. Fats used to try to hustle people from out of town, and he would get beaten regularly. He really wasn't that good a player. He was a showman who knew how to capitalize on an opportunity. Seems that Fats was a lot like FL- lots of bragging about their ability, but no concrete proof of every having won anything.
 
JLW said:
Old timers like Willie Mosconi? He was friends with Walter Tevis and was the technical advisor for the movie. He said many, many times that the movie was not about Rudolph Wanderone. Fats used to try to hustle people from out of town, and he would get beaten regularly. He really wasn't that good a player. He was a showman who knew how to capitalize on an opportunity. Seems that Fats was a lot like FL- lots of bragging about their ability, but no concrete proof of every having won anything.
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You probably got the idea that Fats couldn't play from one of Byrne's books. I talked to an old-timer about him who knew him very well and was around him often, and I mentioned how Byrne and some others said Fats didn't play very good. He told me if anyone ever saw the Fatman play and weren't impressed, that's because he was the greatest hustler of that era and even as famous as he was, alot of people thought he couldn't play. If you ever saw him when he thought the time was right to let his real game come out, you would have been amazed. The man was a great player, and an even better hustler. This is from out of my friend's mouth, and my friend plays very good in his late 70's and knows what good pool is. Its funny how Bob Byrne knocked Fats so much when Byrne never shot better than a B- in his entire life. Fats probably hustled him long ago.
 
I believe people think Fats couldn't play because Mosconi would murder him every time they played. Compared to Mosconi and other legends, Fats probably was a shortstop at 14.1 and nine ball most of the time.

One pocket is a different story though. Fats used to take down some big scores playing one pocket. He was supposed to be a good banker and unafraid to fire at his hole even with the risk of selling out. His ability to make games is legendary- they didn't call him triple smart Fats for nothing.

"Fats could play some pool. I don't care what anybody says. He could play some pool" -Jersey Red (from page 57 of Hustler Days by R.A. Dyer)

Read pages 131-132 to hear how he's down big until the wager gets huge and then he starts firing in banks and running out on Danny Jones until he's up 8K.


Mosconi might of been the greatest ever but I don't think he was known for praising other players. Grady in his book says both Mosconi and Fats would knock other players before they would help them.
 
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LastTwo said:
You probably got the idea that Fats couldn't play from one of Byrne's books. I talked to an old-timer about him who knew him very well and was around him often, and I mentioned how Byrne and some others said Fats didn't play very good. He told me if anyone ever saw the Fatman play and weren't impressed, that's because he was the greatest hustler of that era and even as famous as he was, alot of people thought he couldn't play. If you ever saw him when he thought the time was right to let his real game come out, you would have been amazed. The man was a great player, and an even better hustler. This is from out of my friend's mouth, and my friend plays very good in his late 70's and knows what good pool is. Its funny how Bob Byrne knocked Fats so much when Byrne never shot better than a B- in his entire life. Fats probably hustled him long ago.
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Let me just say that I've got nothing against Minnesota Fats. I think his mystique really helped pool to appeal to the masses. But, I know someone who played Fats many times years ago (in the 70's). And according to him, Fats would demand a spot from his opponents and still lose. My opinion of Fats' game is based on this information plus what I have read and heard from many pros, including Mosconi. I don't recall ever reading anything by Robert Byrne about Fats. But Byrne has actually won some tournaments. I don't recall Fats ever winning anything. His claim to fame is as a hustler. And, as I said before, I've heard lots of info that suggests he wasn't even so great at doing that.
 
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