The truth about the GSBT event in Bristol TN

Marie's husband said:
Mr. Lloyd,

I do like your example and I do agree with you on people making it too hard. I dont know what the flyers look like that are promoting the GSBT tournaments, but looking at their website and looking at the entry fees, I can understand how someone could get upset about the prize funds. At no point does it show any money taken out from the entry fee for tour fees, it only shows $10 added to the entry fee for green fees. So if I was to enter that tournament I would assume my entire entry fee would go into a prize fund.

Now why do I assume that! My assumption is that they were making the money needed to do this tour off of sponsors and room owners paying a specific amount which would not require the money taken from the entry fees.

Dont get me wrong, I do agree with the GSBT making money. It is a business and they are selling each person a product in which is a pool tournament. Most pool players are not used to having to pay an "admission fee" so its a learning curve. Now that just means pool players will have to do some research prior to entering a tournament to make sure it is what they want. It also means, that tournament directors will have to supply a well run product or the product will fail quickly and by the looks of things the GSBT is doing a hell of a job because they just broke 100 again.

You talked about simplifying, I would suggest simplifying it even more and just list the gaurentee pay outs for number of paid entrys and not just a gaurenteed payout to first. Now I am talking about a legitimate Tour, not just a monthly tournament because my perspective of a Tour is one that already has a schedule of venues.


Your example of money added and the breakdown of the entry fee is great, but what does that matter if you dont give a breakdown of payout? There is no standard in the pool world on percentage of field payout or what percentage of prize fund each place should receive.



An example of specific payouts on a flyer would be like this.


1-32 players
1st $1,000
2nd $400
3rd $200
4th $100
5/6th $75


33-63 players
1st $1,000
2nd $400
3rd $200
4th $100
5/6th $75
7/8th $60
9-12th $45
13-16th $20

64-80 players
1st $1,000
2nd $600
3rd $400
4th $200
5/6th $100
7/8th $80
9-12th $45
13-16th $20

80-100 players
1st $1,200
2nd $750
3rd $450
4th $250
5/6th $150
78th $100
9-12th $60
13-16th $45
Click to expand...

MH,

You assumed as most players do that it is up to the room owners to supply your tour, prize money amd playing arena. As a player it would be great to have 100% payouts, added $$$, free play and practice time. But if we want the rooms to continue to be there for us in the future they need to make some $$$. Rooms usually shell out anywhere from $1,000.00 - $7,000.00 to have an event. Where are they supposed to recover that from much less make a profit?

Why do poker players play for millions of $$$? Because they will put up $10,000.00 to enter an event. They will play satellite events to get into bigger purse events. If you want to win big $$$ put up big $$$.

Your examples would be very nice if... Players paid in advance so the prize fund could be established. If it were to be written as you say and we have an event with 36 players. Where would the extra money come from to pay out on the 33-64 scale with only 36 players? Not to mention the greif it cause if you paid only 6 spots up to 32 players. But paid 16 spots on 36 players.

Pay outs are based on the number of players and we never know how many players til we close the entry window. The only option to this would be a guaranteed prize fund. Its hard enough to get added $$$ much less a guaranteed purse. Yes Mr. Room Owner that is correct our fee per event is $8,000.00 because the players need a guarntee to risk there $50.00 entry fee or they won't come. How far would we get at that rate? The pros can't get guarnteed money. But the weekend warriors want it that way.

Please take no offense to this post. My sarcasm is directed toward the want it all players not toward you or any one specific. Because it seems you and many do understand completely.
 
I really don't care how much a tour takes out for registration fees or green fees, as long as it's clearly advertised. Then I can make my own decision to play or not.

I admit can't find this on their website. But I do recall reading it somewhere before.

However, being a formal Tour Director for 9 years myself, we didn't normally advertise AT an event during the Players Meeting "hey, we took out blah blah blah for green fees and registration fees." BUT - it should be stated clearly on websites and flyers. CLEARLY. So threads like this aren't started AND people don't start stupid rumors (like goes on in Texas).

I get upset when people start accusing tours of not paying out all the money collected before they find out there are green fees and registration fees. It only causes bad information to be floating around and can hurt attendance which leads to sponsors, pool rooms, and players being affected.

As for the OP - seems he has changed his tune from "they took out 100 million dollars!!" to (now that he knows there are green fees) "That's too much money!"

It's his opinion to think that - but dude, don't come next time now that you know the facts and you don't like it.
 
akaTrigger said:
I really don't care how much a tour takes out for registration fees or green fees, as long as it's clearly advertised. Then I can make my own decision to play or not.

I admit can't find this on their website. But I do recall reading it somewhere before.

However, being a formal Tour Director for 9 years myself, we didn't normally advertise AT an event during the Players Meeting "hey, we took out blah blah blah for green fees and registration fees." BUT - it should be stated clearly on websites and flyers. CLEARLY. So threads like this aren't started AND people don't start stupid rumors (like goes on in Texas).

I get upset when people start accusing tours of not paying out all the money collected before they find out there are green fees and registration fees. It only causes bad information to be floating around and can hurt attendance which leads to sponsors, pool rooms, and players being affected.

As for the OP - seems he has changed his tune from "they took out 100 million dollars!!" to (now that he knows there are green fees) "That's too much money!"

It's his opinion to think that - but dude, don't come next time now that you know the facts and you don't like it.
Click to expand...

Trigger, it's about time the "Green Police" showed up!:lmao:

Seriously, very wise words. Food for thought for everyone.
 
akaTrigger said:
I really don't care how much a tour takes out for registration fees or green fees, as long as it's clearly advertised. Then I can make my own decision to play or not.

I admit can't find this on their website. But I do recall reading it somewhere before.

However, being a formal Tour Director for 9 years myself, we didn't normally advertise AT an event during the Players Meeting "hey, we took out blah blah blah for green fees and registration fees." BUT - it should be stated clearly on websites and flyers. CLEARLY. So threads like this aren't started AND people don't start stupid rumors (like goes on in Texas).

I get upset when people start accusing tours of not paying out all the money collected before they find out there are green fees and registration fees. It only causes bad information to be floating around and can hurt attendance which leads to sponsors, pool rooms, and players being affected.

As for the OP - seems he has changed his tune from "they took out 100 million dollars!!" to (now that he knows there are green fees) "That's too much money!"

It's his opinion to think that - but dude, don't come next time now that you know the facts and you don't like it.
Click to expand...

Nothing would have ever been said if we would have gotten our usual of anywhere from 35-60 players. But since we did finally have a great event it suddenly is not a good thing for pool!
There are gonna be ALOT of changes made. I have just started manning our web site and will have a spot for all of the rules, handicaps, entry fees, tournament fees - it will be there in black and white EXACTLY what will be taken out as a "TOURNAMENT FEE" which is the money that the tour makes. I will not dare ever use the term "green fee" since I didn't know that if you use that term people automatically "assume" that money goes back to the room. I guess I will have to let also let everyone know what sponsorship deals our sponsors do for the tour, what the room owners deal with us running the tour is... last I checked that was none of the players business.But it seeems as though every "THINKS" they know. As long as the players know where every cent of the money they pay in goes then why is it anyones business what our sponsors or room owners deal is?? That is exactly what is wrong with our industry- people who are really trying to promote get penalized and talked about when the real worms are the ones who don't give a crap....they just want to line their pockets!

Okay, I will stop my rant.... but we did get another 99 players this weekend and on the fly - we decided to add an extra $350 to the tourney. We came up with that formula like this:

99 players
-64 full field
35 players X $10.00= $350.00

That was done on the spot. We are restructuring our business plan now... there will be a press release coming soon.


Thanks and have a great day!
 
Marge...It's kinda sad that you have to do all this. I'm with you, that your "deal" with sponsors and room owners is definitely nobody's business but your own. Who knows...maybe you'll start getting 100 players at every event. Gosh, wouldn't that be terrible! :yikes: :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

coop19772002 said:
Nothing would have ever been said if we would have gotten our usual of anywhere from 35-60 players. But since we did finally have a great event it suddenly is not a good thing for pool!
There are gonna be ALOT of changes made. I have just started manning our web site and will have a spot for all of the rules, handicaps, entry fees, tournament fees - it will be there in black and white EXACTLY what will be taken out as a "TOURNAMENT FEE" which is the money that the tour makes. I will not dare ever use the term "green fee" since I didn't know that if you use that term people automatically "assume" that money goes back to the room. I guess I will have to let also let everyone know what sponsorship deals our sponsors do for the tour, what the room owners deal with us running the tour is... last I checked that was none of the players business.But it seeems as though every "THINKS" they know. As long as the players know where every cent of the money they pay in goes then why is it anyones business what our sponsors or room owners deal is?? That is exactly what is wrong with our industry- people who are really trying to promote get penalized and talked about when the real worms are the ones who don't give a crap....they just want to line their pockets!

Okay, I will stop my rant.... but we did get another 99 players this weekend and on the fly - we decided to add an extra $350 to the tourney. We came up with that formula like this:

99 players
-64 full field
35 players X $10.00= $350.00

That was done on the spot. We are restructuring our business plan now... there will be a press release coming soon.


Thanks and have a great day!
Click to expand...
 
Make an effort but,,,,

coop19772002 said:
Nothing would have ever been said if we would have gotten our usual of anywhere from 35-60 players. But since we did finally have a great event it suddenly is not a good thing for pool!
There are gonna be ALOT of changes made. I have just started manning our web site and will have a spot for all of the rules, handicaps, entry fees, tournament fees - it will be there in black and white EXACTLY what will be taken out as a "TOURNAMENT FEE" which is the money that the tour makes. I will not dare ever use the term "green fee" since I didn't know that if you use that term people automatically "assume" that money goes back to the room. I guess I will have to let also let everyone know what sponsorship deals our sponsors do for the tour, what the room owners deal with us running the tour is... last I checked that was none of the players business.But it seeems as though every "THINKS" they know. As long as the players know where every cent of the money they pay in goes then why is it anyones business what our sponsors or room owners deal is?? That is exactly what is wrong with our industry- people who are really trying to promote get penalized and talked about when the real worms are the ones who don't give a crap....they just want to line their pockets!

Okay, I will stop my rant.... but we did get another 99 players this weekend and on the fly - we decided to add an extra $350 to the tourney. We came up with that formula like this:

99 players
-64 full field
35 players X $10.00= $350.00

That was done on the spot. We are restructuring our business plan now... there will be a press release coming soon.


Thanks and have a great day!
Click to expand...

Make an effort to do what is best for the players, but make sure you don't end up selling yourselves short. YOU guys have to make a living too. You will have things happen from time to time, that guide you to rethink and restructure entries and payouts. Some criticism on the tour can be helpful. But, you will always have a few that will never be satisified. You 2 are both intelliigent people, and have started a great thing. I hope they don't frustrate you enough to ruin it.

As for your deals with sponsors, and room owners, I don't care if they pay you a million a year to do 1 event. More power to you. And it's no one elses business, so don't bother trying to explain it. Best of luck to you guys, Sam
 
coop19772002 said:
Nothing would have ever been said if we would have gotten our usual of anywhere from 35-60 players. But since we did finally have a great event it suddenly is not a good thing for pool!
There are gonna be ALOT of changes made. I have just started manning our web site and will have a spot for all of the rules, handicaps, entry fees, tournament fees - it will be there in black and white EXACTLY what will be taken out as a "TOURNAMENT FEE" which is the money that the tour makes. I will not dare ever use the term "green fee" since I didn't know that if you use that term people automatically "assume" that money goes back to the room. I guess I will have to let also let everyone know what sponsorship deals our sponsors do for the tour, what the room owners deal with us running the tour is... last I checked that was none of the players business.But it seeems as though every "THINKS" they know. As long as the players know where every cent of the money they pay in goes then why is it anyones business what our sponsors or room owners deal is?? That is exactly what is wrong with our industry- people who are really trying to promote get penalized and talked about when the real worms are the ones who don't give a crap....they just want to line their pockets!

Okay, I will stop my rant.... but we did get another 99 players this weekend and on the fly - we decided to add an extra $350 to the tourney. We came up with that formula like this:

99 players
-64 full field
35 players X $10.00= $350.00

That was done on the spot. We are restructuring our business plan now... there will be a press release coming soon.


Thanks and have a great day!
Click to expand...

Always gotta be someone raining on your parade. If it's not someone hitting a light pole it's some two and out doucher complaining that ya'all had a great turnout (more work) and didn't get anything out of the extra work ya did.
 
coop19772002 said:
Nothing would have ever been said if we would have gotten our usual of anywhere from 35-60 players. But since we did finally have a great event it suddenly is not a good thing for pool!
There are gonna be ALOT of changes made. I have just started manning our web site and will have a spot for all of the rules, handicaps, entry fees, tournament fees - it will be there in black and white EXACTLY what will be taken out as a "TOURNAMENT FEE" which is the money that the tour makes. I will not dare ever use the term "green fee" since I didn't know that if you use that term people automatically "assume" that money goes back to the room. I guess I will have to let also let everyone know what sponsorship deals our sponsors do for the tour, what the room owners deal with us running the tour is... last I checked that was none of the players business.But it seeems as though every "THINKS" they know. As long as the players know where every cent of the money they pay in goes then why is it anyones business what our sponsors or room owners deal is?? That is exactly what is wrong with our industry- people who are really trying to promote get penalized and talked about when the real worms are the ones who don't give a crap....they just want to line their pockets!

Okay, I will stop my rant.... but we did get another 99 players this weekend and on the fly - we decided to add an extra $350 to the tourney. We came up with that formula like this:

99 players
-64 full field
35 players X $10.00= $350.00

That was done on the spot. We are restructuring our business plan now... there will be a press release coming soon.


Thanks and have a great day!
Click to expand...

Admittedly, this is a totally outside opinion.

This tour is getting more popular which is a fantastic thing!

The downside of getting more popular and having more players is simply that the odds of someone being disappointed with something, anything, increases with that growth. This issue was not really that big a deal for most, but it was for some and from my vantage point, changing one word was an easy fix and the issue shouldn't come up again here on AZ.

Good luck with your continued success! :grin:
 
I was at a tournament over the weekend. Granted, it was a small one. About 30 players or so. The tournament payed back 150%. no greens fees or registration fees. The TD ran a 50/50 raffle (I know they are illegal). Someone asked him where the other 50% goes. He said "In my pocket". This person was pissed off because he kept the other half of the 50/50. He didnt take a registration fee or greens fees, didnt cut the pot or calcutta, and they thought he was terrible for making about $65 dollars for running the tournament. Unbelieveable.
 
That.......

chris_williams said:
I was at a tournament over the weekend. Granted, it was a small one. About 30 players or so. The tournament payed back 150%. no greens fees or registration fees. The TD ran a 50/50 raffle (I know they are illegal). Someone asked him where the other 50% goes. He said "In my pocket". This person was pissed off because he kept the other half of the 50/50. He didnt take a registration fee or greens fees, didnt cut the pot or calcutta, and they thought he was terrible for making about $65 dollars for running the tournament. Unbelieveable.
Click to expand...

That is about par for the course.. Thats what I mean by saying there will always be someone complaining. No matter what you do, it will never be enough.
 
coop19772002 said:
Nothing would have ever been said if we would have gotten our usual of anywhere from 35-60 players. But since we did finally have a great event it suddenly is not a good thing for pool!
There are gonna be ALOT of changes made. I have just started manning our web site and will have a spot for all of the rules, handicaps, entry fees, tournament fees - it will be there in black and white EXACTLY what will be taken out as a "TOURNAMENT FEE" which is the money that the tour makes. I will not dare ever use the term "green fee" since I didn't know that if you use that term people automatically "assume" that money goes back to the room. I guess I will have to let also let everyone know what sponsorship deals our sponsors do for the tour, what the room owners deal with us running the tour is... last I checked that was none of the players business.But it seeems as though every "THINKS" they know. As long as the players know where every cent of the money they pay in goes then why is it anyones business what our sponsors or room owners deal is?? That is exactly what is wrong with our industry- people who are really trying to promote get penalized and talked about when the real worms are the ones who don't give a crap....they just want to line their pockets!

Okay, I will stop my rant.... but we did get another 99 players this weekend and on the fly - we decided to add an extra $350 to the tourney. We came up with that formula like this:

99 players
-64 full field
35 players X $10.00= $350.00

That was done on the spot. We are restructuring our business plan now... there will be a press release coming soon.


Thanks and have a great day!
Click to expand...


You guys did a fantastic job in Cincinnati! This is all just growing pains, and that is not such a bad thing. Keep doing what you are doing for pool, it is awesome. Don't sweat the nits... this past weekend is just another testimonial that the overwhelming majority of players support what you guys are doing. Keep it up, keep growing, keep improving!!!!
 
Worminator said:
You guys did a fantastic job in Cincinnati! This is all just growing pains, and that is not such a bad thing. Keep doing what you are doing for pool, it is awesome. Don't sweat the nits... this past weekend is just another testimonial that the overwhelming majority of players support what you guys are doing. Keep it up, keep growing, keep improving!!!!
Click to expand...

Well said Jamie..
 
Agreed

akaTrigger said:
I really don't care how much a tour takes out for registration fees or green fees, as long as it's clearly advertised. Then I can make my own decision to play or not.

I admit can't find this on their website. But I do recall reading it somewhere before.

However, being a formal Tour Director for 9 years myself, we didn't normally advertise AT an event during the Players Meeting "hey, we took out blah blah blah for green fees and registration fees." BUT - it should be stated clearly on websites and flyers. CLEARLY. So threads like this aren't started AND people don't start stupid rumors (like goes on in Texas).

I get upset when people start accusing tours of not paying out all the money collected before they find out there are green fees and registration fees. It only causes bad information to be floating around and can hurt attendance which leads to sponsors, pool rooms, and players being affected.

As for the OP - seems he has changed his tune from "they took out 100 million dollars!!" to (now that he knows there are green fees) "That's too much money!"

It's his opinion to think that - but dude, don't come next time now that you know the facts and you don't like it.
Click to expand...

Just seen this thread popping back up now, but anyway, I agree with this. Overall, transparancy is key to these.

If it is advertised, known, then no one can complain at all. Don't like it, don't play. When you play a poker tournament for example, they NEVER EVER pay out every dollar they bring in.

JMHO...so...see ya on the felt...when i get back of course. :D

Carl
 
akatrigger said:
i really don't care how much a tour takes out for registration fees or green fees, as long as it's clearly advertised. Then i can make my own decision to play or not.

I admit can't find this on their website. But i do recall reading it somewhere before.

However, being a formal tour director for 9 years myself, we didn't normally advertise at an event during the players meeting "hey, we took out blah blah blah for green fees and registration fees." but - it should be stated clearly on websites and flyers. Clearly. So threads like this aren't started and people don't start stupid rumors (like goes on in texas).

I get upset when people start accusing tours of not paying out all the money collected before they find out there are green fees and registration fees. It only causes bad information to be floating around and can hurt attendance which leads to sponsors, pool rooms, and players being affected.

As for the op - seems he has changed his tune from "they took out 100 million dollars!!" to (now that he knows there are green fees) "that's too much money!"

it's his opinion to think that - but dude, don't come next time now that you know the facts and you don't like it.
Click to expand...

HOT avatar!! :-)
 
Shannon and I just wanted to thank everyone for their support and kind words from our players. I didn't want that to get lost in the thread but we really appreciate all of you guys. We have met some wonderful people over the years and just want everyone to know that we are gonna stay positive and keep on promoting!

Hope to see ya'll soon!

Much thanks,

The GSBT
 
Scott Lee said:
Marge...It's kinda sad that you have to do all this. I'm with you, that your "deal" with sponsors and room owners is definitely nobody's business but your own. Who knows...maybe you'll start getting 100 players at every event. Gosh, wouldn't that be terrible! :yikes: :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Ugh.. I know people would hate it if such a successful tour were here in the NW. :rolleyes:

No.. seriously.. bring us a tour!

Some people don't(or won't) figure into it that this is their livelihood. In order to manage a successful tour, they have to make a living, which includes being able to cover themselves for medical expenses, travel expenses, advertisements and so on, not to mention something to put away for the future. Sure, sponsors will add something, but you cannot expect to have two people running such a large tournament to only survive on what you believe should be the "maximum" earnings of what, $20 or $30k each year.

Sometimes they may have to bag their lunches, but hopefully - for the future of pool and its tours - they will be running above average expectations(as they have been) for turn-outs.

Great job, you two, and I hope it becomes the premier tour that many have been waiting on. And who knows.. with a consistent turn-out bringing in extra funds, they may even get a big annual tournament going. ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top