The US Open didn't forfeit world champion for no show

[!Smorgass Bored]

That's What I'm Known For.......MY THINKING !

Well apparently it's not Open, the draw isn't fair, and the scheduling is selective. I am sure that if Joe Blow shortstop had a regional tour stop that conflicted with the US Open then he would have not been granted an extra day to get there.

The answer to all this is quite simple QUIT SCHEDULING TOURNAMENTS ON TOP OF EACH OTHER.

You know what, John ? I agree with you. The problem as I see it, is that there are only 52 weekends in the calendar year to schedule tournaments..

I have spent an enormous amount of time in the hospital on a Demerol drip pondering a solution and this is what I came up with:
I propose adding a new month to the calendar. The month of Spotasaurus. The month of Spotasaurus will have seven weekends in it. VIOLA !

Doug
(if Spotasaurus is too long a name, we could simply name it SPICE...... imo)

.

 

[JB Cases]

I agree Doug but we don't have 52 high profile events. So it seems to me that the few promoters that are staging high profile events could get together and figure it out.

 

[poolpop63]

this get back to my comment about getting organized, and staying organized. But when u have tournaments poping up all over the country and world, the players must then choose and realize their limits. That way no one feels any ill affects. If u are there u play ... if u r not there... u don't play. Seems simple and organized to me. Unless there is a BETTING agenda no one knows about. But I guess thats a different story.

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

I agree Doug but we don't have 52 high profile events. So it seems to me that the few promoters that are staging high profile events could get together and figure it out.

Yeah, well, you didn't need any Demerol to figure THAT out.

Doug
(I may just give up 'thinking')

 

[speakers]

I completely disagree. The conflict with the Eurotour event was known well in advance, and Eropean players asked whether they could be accommodated. The European players were advised that they would be accommodated in advance. This is better than chancing having the US Open without guys like Souquet, Appleton and Peach.

US players may be in the same situation one day and I believe they would be accommodated similarly. The right precedent has been set here, the one that best advances the cause of having exciting events with the most diverse and complete international fields possible.

I commend the organizers of the US Open for bending the way that they did.

BUT in all fairness, were all the other players that registered, made travel arrangements and showed up on time accomidated? And was it made clear to EVERY player that signed up that there would be some delays for SOME players? Were they told that depending on who they drew out to play they may have to sit and wait an extra day or two? I agree the overlapping scheduling sucks and it's unfortunate, but it's a choice that each player need to make for themselves, not the TD choice. Does anybody know if this was announced at the players meeting? Or were all the participants warned in advance somehow? And when were the unfortunate opponents told that they would have to wait? That would suck to go to your 11:00am Sunday match and be told that you have to wait...wait until when? 3:00? 7:00? Monday? When? Were any of the opponents ASKED if that was okay? Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

 

[pro9dg]

The answer to all this is quite simple QUIT SCHEDULING TOURNAMENTS ON TOP OF EACH OTHER.

The US OPEN has been in existence for 33 years. It has seniority. All other tours, tournaments, exhibitions and so on SHOULD respect that and allow their players the opportunity to play in that event.

This year all the Guiness Tour players had ZERO opportunity to win the US Open because they HAD to play on the Guiness tour event or they quite possibly wouldn't be INVITED back the following year.

The Eurotour knew full well when the US Open is. Now I don't know who had their schedule out first but it seems to be a simple affair for Barry Behrman to get together with all these people scheduling tours and singel events and GET ONE WEEK clear for his event.

I completely disagree with special treatment. For waht that is worth I think Neils Feijen SKIPPED the Eurotour so that he focus on the US Open. I bet he feels like shit knowing that he could have played in both.

It is not often that we disagree John but I'm not with you on this one.
The ultimate goal must be to schedule MORE events on top of each other.
A major event every week on three different continents and that would mean that the game has grown (and a lot more JB cases sold).

The Euro Tour is scheduled several years ahead. I am not certain but I think that the US Open dates were not firm until a few months ago.

Barry Behrman has put up the money for this event for the last 33 years
and can do exactly as he pleases. If players do not like his policies then they can vote with their feet next year.

So he wants all the World Champions in his event so he makes a few concessions to achieve that. It is his perogative - 'he who pays the piper calls the tune'.

Players like Appleton, Peach, Majid, Drago are all not quite where they want to be on the European Rankings so they could not afford to miss the last Euro Tour. Furthermore, there is a Tour ruling that if two (or more) events clash or overlap with the Euro Tour then that gets priority.

Niels broke this rule by opting out of the Euro Tour and going to the US early. But he may avoid a reprimand if he did not play on the opening day of the US Open.

The bunch of European players exercised their worth in marketing value to the tournament and found an accommodating promoter.

 

[muttley76]

It is not often that we disagree John but I'm not with you on this one.
The ultimate goal must be to schedule MORE events on top of each other.
A major event every week on three different continents and that would mean that the game has grown (and a lot more JB cases sold).

The Euro Tour is scheduled several years ahead. I am not certain but I think that the US Open dates were not firm until a few months ago.

Barry Behrman has put up the money for this event for the last 33 years
and can do exactly as he pleases. If players do not like his policies then they can vote with their feet next year.

So he wants all the World Champions in his event so he makes a few concessions to achieve that. It is his perogative - 'he who pays the piper calls the tune'.

Players like Appleton, Peach, Majid, Drago are all not quite where they want to be on the European Rankings so they could not afford to miss the last Euro Tour. Furthermore, there is a Tour ruling that if two (or more) events clash or overlap with the Euro Tour then that gets priority.

Niels broke this rule by opting out of the Euro Tour and going to the US early. But he may avoid a reprimand if he did not play on the opening day of the US Open.

The bunch of European players exercised their worth in marketing value to the tournament and found an accommodating promoter.

This is probably the most biased post I have ever read on az(and that is saying something). There is NO DOUBT that there was preferential treatment, and I think the fact that you are from Europe is clouding your judgement. I don't care where you are from of how good you play, if you aren't willing to play by the same standards as everyone else(I don't care about the TD's decisions, if you are a decent person and the TD said you could flat out cheat, would you?), then DON'T GO. Exercising fair market value? That holds no water. You should just say that they were told they could have an advantage, and they took it. And if they didn't like where they were on the Eurotour, then either commit to the Eurotour fully, or too bad, if you want to come to the open. Your choice, IMO

 

[satman]

Part may be true, but,

It is not often that we disagree John but I'm not with you on this one.
The ultimate goal must be to schedule MORE events on top of each other.
A major event every week on three different continents and that would mean that the game has grown (and a lot more JB cases sold).

The Euro Tour is scheduled several years ahead. I am not certain but I think that the US Open dates were not firm until a few months ago.

Barry Behrman has put up the money for this event for the last 33 years
and can do exactly as he pleases. If players do not like his policies then they can vote with their feet next year.

So he wants all the World Champions in his event so he makes a few concessions to achieve that. It is his perogative - 'he who pays the piper calls the tune'.

Players like Appleton, Peach, Majid, Drago are all not quite where they want to be on the European Rankings so they could not afford to miss the last Euro Tour. Furthermore, there is a Tour ruling that if two (or more) events clash or overlap with the Euro Tour then that gets priority.

Niels broke this rule by opting out of the Euro Tour and going to the US early. But he may avoid a reprimand if he did not play on the opening day of the US Open.

The bunch of European players exercised their worth in marketing value to the tournament and found an accommodating promoter.

I think, if I didn't know this is advance, before I paid my entry. I showed up and attended the players meeting and then was told, "the player you drew is still in a tournament in Europe, he should be here sometime tomorrow, but we're not sure what time you'll play." I'd be madder than he**. Plus, what happens if he gets there for the first round the next day, and they have trouble getting ahold of me? Do I get forfeited for being late to my match? I'd probably tell em to give me my money back, and come back home.

You're right, it's Barry's tournament. He's put together the most successful event in the world. Lasting that many years is a great achievement. So he has the right to do whatever he wants. But most of us lower level players, won't be none too happy.

 

[Snapshot9]

I agree Doug but we don't have 52 high profile events. So it seems to me that the few promoters that are staging high profile events could get together and figure it out.

John ... Are you volunteering to teach each one of them how to email? .. :grin: And I believe Warren Kiamco was the Bridesmaid to John Schmidt, not Ronnie Alcano.

 

[pro9dg]

I think, if I didn't know this is advance, before I paid my entry. I showed up and attended the players meeting and then was told, "the player you drew is still in a tournament in Europe, he should be here sometime tomorrow, but we're not sure what time you'll play." I'd be madder than he**. Plus, what happens if he gets there for the first round the next day, and they have trouble getting ahold of me? Do I get forfeited for being late to my match? I'd probably tell em to give me my money back, and come back home.

You have a fair point there. But if the match schedule was posted at the same time as the draw then that should cover it. If however it was posted at one time and then rescheduled to the next day then the opponent would have a legitimate grievance. If care had been taken in the scheuling then nobody would have been any the wiser. It is not written in stone that the scheduling of matches should relate exactly to how they are drawn out

 

[pro9dg]

This is probably the most biased post I have ever read on az(and that is saying something). There is NO DOUBT that there was preferential treatment, and I think the fact that you are from Europe is clouding your judgement.

I operate in pool on a global basis and I am certainly not biased. My judgement is not clouded just because of my country of residence. I am sure that most people who know me would agree with that.

I also agree with what was done for the Kuwaiti players. The Middle East is a hot bed of emerging talent and you could attract 30-40 players from there next year.

I could shoot the same charge back at you. Is it pull up the drawbridge we are being invaded!

 

[watchez]

I operate in pool on a global basis and I am certainly not biased. My judgement is not clouded just because of my country of residence. I am sure that most people who know me would agree with that.

I also agree with what was done for the Kuwaiti players. The Middle East is a hot bed of emerging talent and you could attract 30-40 players from there next year.

I could shoot the same charge back at you. Is it pull up the drawbridge we are being invaded!

I don't think the US Open needs 30-40 players from Kuwait if exceptions have to be made. Wasn't the field pretty much full this year - like every year.

 

[pro9dg]

I understand that Barry wants to open past 256 players

 

[cardiac kid]

I understand that Barry wants to open past 256 players

I certainly understand why Barry wants to open the event up. Next years event will probably be made up of a vast majority of players from outside the United States. They will be the only ones financially able to play!

Lyn

 

[worldison2]

I propose adding a new month to the calendar. .

Is this the DOUG-orian calendar?

 

[swrooster]

The US Open

I operate in pool on a global basis and I am certainly not biased. My judgement is not clouded just because of my country of residence. I am sure that most people who know me would agree with that.

I also agree with what was done for the Kuwaiti players. The Middle East is a hot bed of emerging talent and you could attract 30-40 players from there next year.

I could shoot the same charge back at you. Is it pull up the drawbridge we are being invaded!

A different league, the PGA, honors the event and not the players. The field is set by a certain time and everyone is bound by the event rules and scheduled times regardless of their world rankings or personal appeal for marketing purposes. Directors and players discredit any event when they request, expect or by position alter or adjust any of the schedule after the deadline has passed. We all can bring status and honor to pool events by treating them with honor.

 

[muttley76]

I operate in pool on a global basis and I am certainly not biased. My judgement is not clouded just because of my country of residence. I am sure that most people who know me would agree with that.

I also agree with what was done for the Kuwaiti players. The Middle East is a hot bed of emerging talent and you could attract 30-40 players from there next year.

I could shoot the same charge back at you. Is it pull up the drawbridge we are being invaded!

I have zero problem with any player playing in events, but they should have the decency to hold themselves to the same standards as all the rest. Just because someone gives you an advantage doesn't mean you have to take it. The players should NEVER be bigger than the event. NONE of them. I am all for allowing every human being to play in the open, just on the same playing field. And for what it is worth, the draw should never be manipulated in any way either. It should just be the old, boring, fair to everyone US open. No special treatment to anyone, including past champions, people who travel 100,000 miles(or kilometers for that matter), or any newly discovered alien species. All I ask is that EVERY player hold themselves to the same standards. Is that really so much to ask?

 

[showtruck2020]

I have zero problem with any player playing in events, but they should have the decency to hold themselves to the same standards as all the rest. Just because someone gives you an advantage doesn't mean you have to take it. The players should NEVER be bigger than the event. NONE of them. I am all for allowing every human being to play in the open, just on the same playing field. And for what it is worth, the draw should never be manipulated in any way either. It should just be the old, boring, fair to everyone US open. No special treatment to anyone, including past champions, people who travel 100,000 miles(or kilometers for that matter), or any newly discovered alien species. All I ask is that EVERY player hold themselves to the same standards. Is that really so much to ask?

you are 100% correct

 

[JB Cases]

It is not often that we disagree John but I'm not with you on this one.
The ultimate goal must be to schedule MORE events on top of each other.
A major event every week on three different continents and that would mean that the game has grown (and a lot more JB cases sold).

The Euro Tour is scheduled several years ahead. I am not certain but I think that the US Open dates were not firm until a few months ago.

Barry Behrman has put up the money for this event for the last 33 years
and can do exactly as he pleases. If players do not like his policies then they can vote with their feet next year.

So he wants all the World Champions in his event so he makes a few concessions to achieve that. It is his perogative - 'he who pays the piper calls the tune'.

Players like Appleton, Peach, Majid, Drago are all not quite where they want to be on the European Rankings so they could not afford to miss the last Euro Tour. Furthermore, there is a Tour ruling that if two (or more) events clash or overlap with the Euro Tour then that gets priority.

Niels broke this rule by opting out of the Euro Tour and going to the US early. But he may avoid a reprimand if he did not play on the opening day of the US Open.

The bunch of European players exercised their worth in marketing value to the tournament and found an accommodating promoter.

I disagree on a lot of levels. Let's start with the last point that the European players exercised their "marketing value". I doubt that this was part of the discussion. In fact I saw no evidence of the participation of any particular players being marketed. I am quite positive that 99% of those who attended the US Open as spectators would have made the trip even if any or all of the Europeans were not there.

I think that the Eurotour rule is also silly. If there is a higher profile event going on then allow the top players to choose it if they want to. That just means that lower ranked players on the Eurotour will get a chance to improve their standings. It seems like restraint of trade to forbid a player from attending an event which pays out much much more than your own.

As for Barry Behrman changing the rules at will and giving preferential treatment because he puts on the event.......so now you are saying that it's ok for promoters to do whatever they want as long as they pay the bills? That it's alright to give some players special treatment but not others? I do not subscribe to that idea.

I don't know what caused the scheduling conflict. Most likely it was Barry scheduling on top of the Eurotour event. The point is though that if it happens then the players should have the right to choose, without penalty, the higher profile event. I think that there are certain marquee events that should not conflict and that it's incumbent on the all the promoters to get together and make sure that they don't so that each event can have the maximum number of stars in attendance. Scheduling more events on top of each other doesn't mean that there are going to be more players to fill them. If the sport grows then more events become a neccessity and when that happens there will be levels of tournaments for the players to choose from.

The US Open however stands apart. It is the one tournament that didn't grant slots, that was open to anyone with a penis, and didn't play favorites. Now, that has changed and I hope it changes back.

"If the players don't like it then they can vote with their feet." Let's play what if and assume that half of the field did just that. Would Barry be able to continue the US Open? So you are encouraging him as a promoter to continue this type of action that is a slap in the face of all the other participants? What would the US Open look like without all those non-world champions putting up the majority of the prize fund? I think that you know the answer is that the US Open would probably cease to exist. Barry is grasping for players which is why he made these concessions and opened Pandora's box. I highly doubt that he shares your attitude of screw em' I pay the bills and if they don't like it then they don't have to come.

If another promoter followed your reasoning and put on an event down the street with 40,000 added, $200 entry fee, and had an barred list with all the stars on it then I guarantee you it would rob Barry of most of the participants in his event. Whoever did that would be crucified for killing the US Open.

I don't want that. The players don't want it. The fans don't want it.

 

[JimS]

Why make a rule if you can't make exceptions and exercise authority?