The Whole 'Added-Guaranteed' Situation

CSykes24

CSykes24

www.coreysykes.com
Silver Member
Not that I'm entirely upset about this, because I understand it now that I've been reading these things for quite some time, but can people please stop posting the whole 'Added Guaranteed' in your tournament announcements when you publicize? I believe it's a blatant lie and completely misleading -- and it legitimately makes no sense to put those two words together to describe a tournament; a bad marketing technique. I feel as though it's a great idea to distinguish one from the other, so that we can avoid confusion to players and tournament directors in the future.

Added -> (Tournament Entry Fees) + (ADDED) = Prize Pool


  • If a tournament has $1000 added and the entry fee is $20: If 20 people show up, the total prize pool should be:

    ($400) + $1000 = $1400 (minus greens fees).

Guaranteed -> (Tournament Entry Fees) + (Guaranteed - Tournament Entry Fees) = Guaranteed Prize Pool


  • If a tournament has a $1000 guarantee and the entry fee is $20: if 20 people show up, the total prize pool is:

    ($400) + ($1000-400) = $1000, because that's what was guaranteed beforehand. You add $600 to the tournament to complete the guarantee.

Please post your tournament announcements like:

$1000 Guaranteed 9-Ball or $1000 Added 9-Ball, but never [$1000 Added Guaranteed]. It really makes no sense -- it's misleading to the entrant and can cause issues at the tournament table, especially if someone is driving a decent distance to a tournament.

However, with that being said, I do thank every T.D. out there for running tournaments and keeping the sport alive -- I have no issue with that. I sincerely appreciate that you put time and effort into holding these events when you really do this out of passion and not to heist people.
 
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Saying the added money is guaranteed is simply that. The money is guaranteed no matter what. Often times the tournament will be $xxx added (min. Xx entries).
 
CSykes24 said:
Not that I'm entirely upset about this, because I understand it now that I've been reading these things for quite some time, but can people please stop posting the whole 'Added Guaranteed' in your tournament announcements when you publicize? I believe it's a blatant lie and completely misleading -- and it legitimately makes no sense to put those two words together to describe a tournament; a bad marketing technique. I feel as though it's a great idea to distinguish one from the other, so that we can avoid confusion to players and tournament directors in the future.

Added -> (Tournament Entry Fees) + (ADDED) = Prize Pool


  • If a tournament has $1000 added and the entry fee is $20: If 20 people show up, the total prize pool should be:

    ($400) + $1000 = $1400 (minus greens fees).

Guaranteed -> (Tournament Entry Fees) + (Guaranteed - Tournament Entry Fees) = Guaranteed Prize Pool


  • If a tournament has a $1000 guarantee and the entry fee is $20: if 20 people show up, the total prize pool is:

    ($400) + ($1000-400) = $1000, because that's what was guaranteed beforehand. You add $600 to the tournament to complete the guarantee.

Please post your tournament announcements like:

$1000 Guaranteed 9-Ball or $1000 Added 9-Ball, but never [$1000 Added Guaranteed]. It really makes no sense -- it's misleading to the entrant and can cause issues at the tournament table, especially if someone is driving a decent distance to a tournament.

However, with that being said, I do thank every T.D. out there for running tournaments and keeping the sport alive -- I have no issue with that. I sincerely appreciate that you put time and effort into holding these events when you really do this out of passion and not to heist people.
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It's not a lie.....The added money is based on a full field.........If the full field is 64 players and only 20 show up, then the added money is pro-rated.. You need to get all the facts together before you accuse someone of being dishonest
 
John Novak said:
It's not a lie.....The added money is based on a full field.........If the full field is 64 players and only 20 show up, then the added money is pro-rated.. You need to get all the facts together before you accuse someone of being dishonest
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I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Obviously there are tournaments that have added money based on a full field. Those tournaments are showing disclosure, which isn't what I'm talking about at all. I'm talking about saying "$1000 Added Guaranteed", which means that $1000 is guaranteed as the prize pool, regardless of entrants. There's no added money. Added means on top.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything malicious -- this isn't even directed at anyone. I was just viewing the Tournament Announcements sub-forum and it came across my mind. I can say that from my own personal gambling background with poker that I do have "all of my facts."
 
John Novak said:
It's not a lie.....The added money is based on a full field.........If the full field is 64 players and only 20 show up, then the added money is pro-rated.. You need to get all the facts together before you accuse someone of being dishonest
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To me the real "deception" is the tournaments that say $5000 Guaranteed. If the entry fee is $50 and there is 100 players, then there is ZERO added.

Added per player or "pro-rated" is good because it gives an incentive for players to bring friends or tell as many as possible.

Guaranteed Added is good because players that travel know xxx amount will be added no matter what. Like the Memphis Open in July $6000 guaranteed added.

Fees should also be transparent. I have made the mistake of not mentioning green fees and there is always one or two that thought you were volunteering. List the fees.

Ray
 
CSykes24 said:
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Obviously there are tournaments that have added money based on a full field. Those tournaments are showing disclosure, which isn't what I'm talking about at all. I'm talking about saying "$1000 Added Guaranteed", which means that $1000 is guaranteed as the prize pool, regardless of entrants. There's no added money. Added means on top.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything malicious -- this isn't even directed at anyone. I was just viewing the Tournament Announcements sub-forum and it came across my mind. I can say that from my own personal gambling background with poker that I do have "all of my facts."
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This is not correct Corey. "$1000 Added Guaranteed" means just that. $1000 added no matter how many players.

Ray
 
Bigtruck said:
This is not correct Corey. "$1000 Added Guaranteed" means just that. $1000 added no matter how many players.

Ray
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Then maybe I'm an idiot, but why add "guaranteed" to it? I've always followed that 'guaranteed' prize pools were to guarantee a minimum prize pool and added was 'added' money on top of entry fees? I've been to several places lately where what I was talking about in my OP were exactly what happened, and they passed it off as something it was not.

Thanks for adding to the discussion instead of bashing on my thoughts -- I'm really not here to argue with anyone. I'll still attend the events regardless of what is added -- I'm just curious as to the discrepancies between this style and poker.

Bigtruck said:
To me the real "deception" is the tournaments that say $5000 Guaranteed. If the entry fee is $50 and there is 100 players, then there is ZERO added.
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To add on this: I think this is perfectly fine. It's a $5000 Guaranteed tournament, so the minimum prize pool is $5000. There doesn't seem to be any deception to me?
 
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Bigtruck said:
To me the real "deception" is the tournaments that say $5000 Guaranteed. If the entry fee is $50 and there is 100 players, then there is ZERO added.

Ray
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My personal favorite is the $2000 Guaranteed tournament that gets a 64 person field at $50 entry... and pays out $2000 instead of the $3200 collected on entry fees. The guarantee shouldn't be used to cap the payout if you get a larger field than anticipated.
 
DallasHopps said:
My personal favorite is the $2000 Guaranteed tournament that gets a 64 person field at $50 entry... and pays out $2000 instead of the $3200 collected on entry fees. The guarantee shouldn't be used to cap the payout if you get a larger field than anticipated.
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Haha, I've never seen this happen anywhere...but that'd definitely make me never come back. Is this a real thing? Sounds super sketchy.
 
This is the same thing as saying "I'll give you the best price for a car" vs "I'll guarantee I'll give you the best price for a car". Both are the same thing, although what the "guarantee" is exactly is pretty nebulous. I mean what happens if the guy can only put in $500 when he "guaranteed" $1,000? Will he let you feel his girlfriend's boobs Let you kick him in the nuts? Give you his second best suit?
 
CSykes24 said:
Haha, I've never seen this happen anywhere...but that'd definitely make me never come back. Is this a real thing? Sounds super sketchy.
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Yes... a lot of people were unhappy that weekend. I've only seen it once, and enough feedback was given that nothing of the sort has happened since.
 
I have never been in or seen a "guaranteed prize pool" tournament. For the reasons specified above it just doesn't make sense.

I am very familiar with "added money" tournaments which are either "guaranteed" or "prorated" and sometimes both!

It should be an incentive to a player when seeing "guaranteed added". It makes total sense to me.
 
So if there is no added money on top of the entry fees. Who works for who. Pros work for the tournament director or the other way around.
 
hang-the-9 said:
This is the same thing as saying "I'll give you the best price for a car" vs "I'll guarantee I'll give you the best price for a car". Both are the same thing, although what the "guarantee" is exactly is pretty nebulous. I mean what happens if the guy can only put in $500 when he "guaranteed" $1,000? Will he let you feel his girlfriend's boobs Let you kick him in the nuts? Give you his second best suit?
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Will he let you feel his girlfriend's boobs Let you kick him in the nuts? Give you his second best suit? So the boob thing you are figuring $250.00 per??

PRICELESS!!!!!:rotflmao1::rotflmao1:
 
Duane Tuula said:
I have never been in or seen a "guaranteed prize pool" tournament. For the reasons specified above it just doesn't make sense.

I am very familiar with "added money" tournaments which are either "guaranteed" or "prorated" and sometimes both!

It should be an incentive to a player when seeing "guaranteed added". It makes total sense to me.
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Here's one that Guarantees a prize fund of $5000 over several events.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=363261

Here's one that only guarantees first place of $5000

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=364948
 
They add guaranteed....

CSykes24 said:
Then maybe I'm an idiot, but why add "guaranteed" to it? I've always followed that 'guaranteed' prize pools were to guarantee a minimum prize pool and added was 'added' money on top of entry fees? I've been to several places lately where what I was talking about in my OP were exactly what happened, and they passed it off as something it was not.

Thanks for adding to the discussion instead of bashing on my thoughts -- I'm really not here to argue with anyone. I'll still attend the events regardless of what is added -- I'm just curious as to the discrepancies between this style and poker.



To add on this: I think this is perfectly fine. It's a $5000 Guaranteed tournament, so the minimum prize pool is $5000. There doesn't seem to be any deception to me?
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They add the term guaranteed to show that even if 10 people show up, they will have that much added onto it. I've seen this too.

At one of the CPPT events in San Diego, they didn't do a good job advertising it and ended up only having like 11 players. I believe that Fran Smith ended up adding the money out of her pocket to help support it.

Jaden
 
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