I applaud what he is doing, but what I don't like the manner in which he defends it. It alienated some people. I'm willing to argue my point some, but not with 99 more innovators.
The Wisdom Of Larry Hubbart
- Thread starter Paul Schofield
- Start date
I applaud what he is doing, but what I don't like the manner in which he defends it. It alienated some people. I'm willing to argue my point some, but not with 99 more innovators.
There are some very sensitive and emotional people posting here. I am determined to keep this cerebral. This is only a forum. Nothing really happens here.
For the record, they're still playing the shot (which shane mentions in his breaking instructional).
But even Shane misses. Maybe it plays different on a barbox.
Let's say the 8b break is more luck than skill and can't be controlled like 9b and 10b.
Your main argument seems to be that this stops whining and speeds things up.
Then the question becomes: Which is more exciting, entertaining, and good for our sport?
That's still priority 1 right? So you tell me. Do you think people will voluntarily give up
the excitement, randomness, and luck of the break if the tradeoff is they don't have to watch
shane spin that 1 ball or listen to alex argue with the TD about the rack?
Take a poll. Don't talk to me about how you don't need to because you run successful events.
The participants of the events don't get a choice. You make up the rules, they're forced to like it or lump it.
Instead, ask spectators here on AZ if they'd like to do away with the excitement of an uncertain break,
if that would remove the boredom of racking conflicts?
Poll
That poll will go up as soon as CJ Wiley goes out and runs a tournament per P.S.'s admonition/recommendation. Don't hold your breath. Plus he said that nothing really happens here.
I hope we can ease up with our emotions so that I might get a response from my earlier question in post # 199.
Mr. Schofield,
Do your slop 8-ball tournaments run faster because?...etc. please re-read #199 because I had some comments in there I thought you might address.
That poll will go up as soon as CJ Wiley goes out and runs a tournament per P.S.'s admonition/recommendation. Don't hold your breath. Plus he said that nothing really happens here.
I hope we can ease up with our emotions so that I might get a response from my earlier question in post # 199.
Mr. Schofield,
Do your slop 8-ball tournaments run faster because?...etc. please re-read #199 because I had some comments in there I thought you might address.
Thank you. Then the next question is "Why is slopping a ball sacrilegious during the game and sacred on the break?" The break is the most critical shot in the game and it is a slop shot? People talk about the rules as though they "always were and always will be". That is not the case. Rules evolve and they need to be examined from time to time.
I will answer the rest of your post when I get a chance.
You are inconsistent. You abhor "slop on the break" (a single shot during the whole rack), but you approve of it during the other 90% of the game?
-Sean
No. Under the rules I advocate, the player continues to shoot after he flukes a ball in on the break or during the game. I think I am treating the slopped ball the same on both counts.
I am in favor of the fluked ball all the time. Though I am saying "Make the-ball-on-the-break moot". I say this for a couple of reasons: 1) It causes far more trouble than it is worth. 2) the outcome of a game weighs too heavily on it IMO.
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There is no way of knowing at this time.
99% of the people who play pool don't care what Shane, Alex, or any pro does. People just want to play pool.
No one is forced to play. Players have options. They repeatedly come from 5 different states to play, even though there are other events run on the same weekend with more added money.
No one on here has played under these rules so there is no way they could know if it was acceptable. I did run a poll on AZ asking if they would enter an event with the rules and try them out. Almost three quarters said yes, they would try it.
See the poll and vote here: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=319091 Bump it to give it a new life.
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Sure, but I was referring to what makes the game better for the spectator.
People don't spectate average joe APA5's (at least, they won't pay to).
They spectate Shane and Alex.
Are you only proposing no-conflict (and slop 8b) as a useful thing for small-time $10 tournaments?
Or are you hoping it eventually becomes the standard even in pro events?
And, if we're talking about solving tedious racking arguments... well again that's the province
of guys like Shane and Alex who consider a 1 millimeter gap completely unacceptable.
The average players don't care.
Why look for 'no conflict' solutions for guys who consider a rack good if the gaps are smaller than their pinky?
There's a difference between "Would you try this" and "is this the best thing for pool in general".
Sort of like, I'd TRY bumper pool or full rack banks but I don't think they're The Way Forward for pocket billiards. I'm gonna try a fresh poll.
Banks
Banned
How about Bonus Bumper Ball?
I may be wrong, but I got the impression that these no conflict tournaments are primarily oriented to the majority of players, not to the whole organizations. IMHO the masses need to get what they like, not what the pros want. That will make them get to know and like pool. Pool is way too unpopular today for us to worry about spectators. There's too few of them anyway. It's not the right time to argue about how the pros play because it's a well known fact that 99.99% of pool players couldn't name one pro. It's so obvious that at the moment, pool as a sport is as insignificant to the world as checkers. People only know it as a fun game you can find in many bars and some halls in the town. Give them that, let them enjoy, play and compete in the environment and by the rules they love. Popularity will come, but it will take time. Then we should talk about spectators.
There are no spectators (or at least too few to make it a consideration).
Pool's best years were with slop 9b. I say that those rules would be good for 8b also. The rules work well for every level of play. I have no intention of doing business outside of my area. I make the rules available online to anyone who wants to use them. It is no consequence to me what the standard is or becomes. I am too old to care so much. I do my own thing and I will continue to do so. I like it that way.
You seem to care a lot. Why don't you just jump in your car and come and play in our next one day regional event on November 23rd. There will be more than $10,000 in prizes and calcutta. You can see what I am talking about and you can draw your own conclussions from that (rather than sit at a computor and speculate). Enter early. When I anounce the details, the field fills fast!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCbzuqNs7iw
Enlighten me. This is what I see. These guys broke the balls 8 times. 12 balls were made on the break. They slopped in 11 of them. Only one intended-ball in an intended-pocket was made. The 1-ball was made in a head corner pocket once in 8 tries.
The break in Eight-Ball is a slop shot. A player should not be punished for NOT slopping a ball in on the break and he should not be rewarded FOR slopping a ball in on the break. To make the game better and more skilled, make it a moot point. Just get rid of it.
Another point: I don't think that I saw any balls slopped after the break during any of the games. The concern over slopped balls is misplaced.
I am re-posting this because I did not get an answer. If there is something that I am unaware of, I would certainly like to know about it.
Originally Posted by The Renfro
If that is what you see and think after all this time I think I see the major malfunction and it's not with the break...... I had this pegged way ahead of time but the confirmation is appreciated.....
Chris <<<<<<Has spent many 8hour sessions working on nothing but the break and it's not just smash and hope......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCbzuqNs7iw
Originally Posted by Paul Schofield
Enlighten me. This is what I see. These guys broke the balls 8 times. 12 balls were made on the break. They slopped in 11 of them. Only one intended-ball in an intended-pocket was made. The 1-ball was made in a head corner pocket once in 8 tries.
The break in Eight-Ball is a slop shot.
Originally Posted by The Renfro
If that is what you see and think after all this time I think I see the major malfunction and it's not with the break...... I had this pegged way ahead of time but the confirmation is appreciated.....
Chris <<<<<<Has spent many 8hour sessions working on nothing but the break and it's not just smash and hope......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCbzuqNs7iw
Originally Posted by Paul Schofield
Enlighten me. This is what I see. These guys broke the balls 8 times. 12 balls were made on the break. They slopped in 11 of them. Only one intended-ball in an intended-pocket was made. The 1-ball was made in a head corner pocket once in 8 tries.
The break in Eight-Ball is a slop shot.
Paul:
It's simple. You advocate "getting rid of the game-opening slop shot," but yet you abhor call-shot rules anytime after that. Why is the break shot any different than the rest of the game? Why "slop is bad" on the opening break, but "slop is ok" during the rest of the game? Your stance is inconsistent and doesn't make sense.
Folks are probably getting weary of going back and forth with you on this topic, and probably (conjecture on my part) want this topic and thread to die.
-Sean
Forgot about this thread.....I'm still wondering what additional rules have been added to traditional BCA 8 ball, besides no called shots. Choice of groups after breaking? Fouls behind line or BIH? 3 foul? I'm just trying to get a grasp on how Paul is playing 8 ball. October 9th he was going to get back to me and must have forgot.
I dunno... He sounds like a "winner" to me...
(Or at least someone who has the potential to be a winner.)
To sum it up succinctly.. "If you are okay with losing.. You're a loser."
In my mind, absolutely nothing wrong with getting a little (or a LOT) pissed off about losing.
Short Bus Russ
Are you Renfo? You take his questions? I still would like to get my question answered. I would like to know where Renfo is coming from.
Originally Posted by Paul Schofield View Post
I am re-posting this because I did not get an answer. If there is something that I am unaware of, I would certainly like to know about it.
Originally Posted by The Renfro
If that is what you see and think after all this time I think I see the major malfunction and it's not with the break...... I had this pegged way ahead of time but the confirmation is appreciated.....
Chris <<<<<<Has spent many 8hour sessions working on nothing but the break and it's not just smash and hope......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCbzuqNs7iw
Originally Posted by Paul Schofield
Enlighten me. This is what I see. These guys broke the balls 8 times. 12 balls were made on the break. They slopped in 11 of them. Only one intended-ball in an intended-pocket was made. The 1-ball was made in a head corner pocket once in 8 tries.
The break in Eight-Ball is a slop shot.
They are in in post #181
Here they are:
1. Call nothing
2. No short games
3. Use No Conflict Rules for racking and breaking
4. Three hour tournament
Other things I have done in the past and I am also doing: calcutta, Nine-Ball break-and-run jackpot.
No short games means that every game is played out untill someone legally pockets the 8-ball to win the game. Scratch on the 8 is not loss of game. Early 8-ball is not loss of game. Incoming player spots the 8 on a foul at either end (choice). Also, group choice after the break.
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