The WPBA Michigan City Thread

[sjm]

Aren't they 2 matches from TV? I thought only the semis and finals were televised now.


PJ

If that is so, I stand corrected. In 2005, when this format was used, such as at WPBA Peoria which I attended, there were seven televised matches. Baed on your post, seems they've gone back to three. I corrected my post. Thanks for the information.

 

[Wally in Cincy]

Aren't they 2 matches from TV? I thought only the semis and finals were televised now.


PJ

In this particular format they televise from the quarters on. Total 7 matches.

One of the things folks complained about was seeing the same faces on tv all the time and this is what they have done to cope with that.

 

[Nostroke]

In this particular format they televise from the quarters on. Total 7 matches.

One of the things folks complained about was seeing the same faces on tv all the time and this is what they have done to cope with that.

IN NC, they used the single elimination final 16 format and still only televised the semis and finals. I think they are doing the same here. The room has no TV set today.

The first matches of Saturday:

Alice Rim down 3-0, rallies with 9 straight to beat Ellen Van Buren 9-3.

Ewa, down most of the match also rallies and over comes Tiffany 9-7.

Laura Smith over Romana D maybe 9-6 or thereabouts.

Monica was up 8-7 over Kim Shaw- still playing.

 

[Wally in Cincy]

Thanks for clarifying that and thanks for the update.

Wish I was there.

I'm not sure if I like that format. I'll have to wait and see how it works out.

 

[Barbara]

Thanks for clarifying that and thanks for the update.

Wish I was there.

I'm not sure if I like that format. I'll have to wait and see how it works out.

I think single elim is great!! It has motivated a lot of the players to improve their game dramatically.

Barbara

 

[Pjadedd]

In this particular format they televise from the quarters on. Total 7 matches.

One of the things folks complained about was seeing the same faces on tv all the time and this is what they have done to cope with that.

I know that's how they did it when this format was only used once a year, but it doesn't appear that the quarters are races to 7. Looking at the brackets for the Carolina Classic, Monica Webb beat Kim Shaw in the quarters 9-8.


PJ

 

[sjm]

It has motivated a lot of the players to improve their game dramatically.

Barbara

Barbara, I certainly consider you a total authority on women's pro pool, but this is very hard to understand.

Reaching the top 16 of any event is exactly as easy/difficult as it used to be. I believe the true beneficiaries of this format are those ranked from 9 - 16, who will frequently reach the top 16 despite having a loss, but will be in a position to knock the most elite out of the tournament by beating them just once in the single elimination stages.

The big losers in this format are the most elite, who rarely lose early, and are used to having a little more room for error. This format might produce an unexpected winner among the Top 8 one of these days, but I don't think this format will have much effect, other than the addition of an unnecessary luck factor.

I don't terribly care for this format, but I can live with it. I just cannot fathom why anybody would find motivation from this change in format.

 

[Barbara]

sjm,

I just think that because once you get to the top 16 and it becomes a single elimination format, the sphincter factor becomes a 9.5 and the women are thinking, Wow, I really have to shift into a higher gear to pull this off. Some might ponder their skill depth and their need to deepen their own arsenal of abilities.

It had been suggested before by a former board member to have the whole tournament in a single elimination format. The suggestion being based on how many other professional events are double elimination.

This certainly isn't a fair proposition to the elite 8, but I think it has caused a few of the players to reassess their attitude towards play.

Barbara

Barbara, I certainly consider you a total authority on women's pro pool, but this is very hard to understand.

Reaching the top 16 of any event is exactly as easy/difficult as it used to be. I believe the true beneficiaries of this format are those ranked from 9 - 16, who will frequently reach the top 16 despite having a loss, but will be in a position to knock the most elite out of the tournament by beating them just once in the single elimination stages.

The big losers in this format are the most elite, who rarely lose early, and are used to having a little more room for error. This format might produce an unexpected winner among the Top 8 one of these days, but I don't think this format will have much effect, other than the addition of an unnecessary luck factor.

I don't terribly care for this format, but I can live with it. I just cannot fathom why anybody would find motivation from this change in format.

 

[sjm]

Pan Xiaoting will be trying to win a WPBA event in her second ever WPBA appearance.

Since the formation of the WPBA Classic Nine Ball tour in 1993, only one player managed to win in her second WPBA appearance, and she went on to be fairly successful on tour. Her name is Allison Fisher, and she accomplished the feat at WPBA Orlando in 1995.

 

[sjm]

sjm,

I just think that because once you get to the top 16 and it becomes a single elimination format, the sphincter factor becomes a 9.5 and the women are thinking, Wow, I really have to shift into a higher gear to pull this off. Some might ponder their skill depth and their need to deepen their own arsenal of abilities.

It had been suggested before by a former board member to have the whole tournament in a single elimination format. The suggestion being based on how many other professional events are double elimination.

This certainly isn't a fair proposition to the elite 8, but I think it has caused a few of the players to reassess their attitude towards play.

Barbara

I believe that use of a single elimination format would cost the WPBA quite a few players. Out of curiosity, how would a player earn their pro points to become a touring pro in that format?

This silly format in use at Michigan City has already seen to it that at most one of Karen and Allison will reach TV. Allison Fisher vs Jennifer Barretta and Karen Corr vs Ewa Laurance, with the winners of those two matches meeting each other for a TV spot.

 

[Barbara]

I believe that use of a single elimination format would cost the WPBA quite a few players. Out of curiosity, how would a player earn their pro points to become a touring pro in that format?

sjm,

The same as they would today, reach the top half of the field. And I think single elimination would stiffen the resolve of the players to commit to the game.

And personally, I wouldn't be a big fan of this huge format change for the whole event, but I'm pulling a blank here. To Any/All, what other individual sports event caters to a double elimination format?

Barbara

 

[sjm]

sjm,

The same as they would today, reach the top half of the field. And I think single elimination would stiffen the resolve of the players to commit to the game.

Today's methodology tends to offer nearly every emerging player a realistic shot at a pro point in any event if they play well, despite the fact that emerging players generally draw tough in the first round.

Top half of the field in single elimination means winning your first match. One player might have to beat Allison Fisher to earn a pro point, while another might only have to beat Stacy Hurst (no disrespect intended to Stacy here, but she's a far easier assignment than Allison). Is that really fair?

If you want to stiffen the resolve of the players to strive for excellence, just pay the top half of the field. Right now, the WPBA pays 48 of the 64 finishers in every event.

 

[Barbara]

sjm,

You should be on the Board!! You have great ideas to further this organization, as well as the sport itself!!

Barbara

Today's methodology tends to offer nearly every emerging player a realistic shot at a pro point in any event if they play well, despite the fact that emerging players generally draw tough in the first round.

Top half of the field in single elimination means winning your first match. One player might have to beat Allison Fisher to earn a pro point, while another might only have to beat Stacy Hurst (no disrespect intended to Stacy here, but she's a far easier assignment than Allison). Is that really fair?

If you want to stiffen the resolve of the players to strive for excellence, just pay the top half of the field. Right now, the WPBA pays 48 of the 64 finishers in every event.

 

[sjm]

Well, the first result is in and it's disappointing for one of our AZB ask the pros columnists, Jennifer Barretta.

Jennifer has been quite unfortunate in this format, now in use for the fourth time in WPBA play. Jennifer has reached the last 16 in all of those events, and she has drawn as follows:

2004 WPBA Florida Jennifer drew then #1 Karen Corr
2005 WPBA Peoria Jennifer drew then #7 Julie Kelly
2006 WPBA No Car Jennifer drew #4 Kelly Fisher
2006 WPBA Mich City Jennifer drew #1 Allison Fisher

Although Jennifer beat #1 Karen Corr at 2004 WPBA Florida, there would be no such upset today of #1 Allison.

An unlucky draw......that's about the size of it.

 

[sjm]

Well, we're down to 8, and a lot of wild stuff is going on here. Three unseeded players (Pan, White, Rim) are among the last eight, and as Rim plays White, we know an unseeded player will play on TV tomorrow. Of course, the winner of White and Rim will play either Allison or Karen.

In the other half of the draw, Jeanette Lee aganst Pan Xiaoting should be a great one, and the winner would meet the winner of Villareal and GY Kim on TV tomorrow in a match that promises to be memorable.

The Allison vs Karen match is enormous as far as the rankings are concerned. The winner, due to play an unseeded player in the semifinal, seems assured of a trip to the final, and if they win it, they will pick up 120 WPBA ranking points on their rival. If Karen wins this and goes on to win this event, #1 is very much within her grasp in 2006. If Allison wins this, she'll pad her lead in the race for #1 by so much that #1 will almost surely be hers for the remainder of 2006. Huge match!

Win or lose, Vivian will pass Helena Thornfeldt and reach #6 in the rankings. Ga Young Kim would regain #4 in the WPBA rankings with if she beats vivian, otherwise she would finish in a rankings tie with Kelly Fisher for the #4 spot.

As for Pan Xiaoting, she'll try to become the first player to win in her second WPBA appearance since Allison Fisher did so at WPBA Orlando in 1995.

High drama in Michigan City --- wish I was there!

 

[sjm]

Nice job by WPBA.com posting the quarterfinal results so promptly.

Vivian Villareal has beaten Ga Young Kim and Jeanette has beaten Pan Xiaoting, so Vivian will play Jeanette in the TV round tomorrow or a spot in the final.

Kim White will play Allison Fisher, who beat Karen Corr double hill.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Thanks for the updates and commentary sjm!

Sad to see Pan Xiao Ting didn't put up much of a fight against Jeanette Lee in the quater final. The last time they met was in a special challenge match for TV here in Shanghai that was broadcast live.

Jeanetter confidently strutted (gracefully albeit) around the table in that match too, stamping her authority over a sheepish Pan in that event. I suspect there is a mental barrier for Pan to get over here. Certainly Jeanette has been one of her idols for years.

Re: The format. It's a little unfair to those who go through the winner's side undefeated, but going dub-elim to the TV stages is confusing to viewers. Also, single elim all the way is very tough on new entrants to the tour who may draw top seeds.

I think the fairest way to get the best reps into the last 8 would be round robins races to 5 or 7. 8 groups of 8 - top 4 going into last 32. 4 groups of 8 - top 4 going into last 16. Performances determine rankings for last 16 single elim.

Groups of 8 are decided on by rankings with different seedings mixed among the initial groups. Second groupings on 8 based on performances in first round robin. eg. (1,8,9, 16, 17, 24, 25, 32), (2,7,10,15.....etc)

Granted that the 1st round might need 16 or 24 tables to get through in one day, but as these girls travel from all around the world, it seems fair to give them a good hit out to work for their achievements.

Just a thought

 

[oOTonkaJoOo]

On the second flight out of Orlando to see Vivian vs. Jeanette. Sure is gonna be a good ESPNshowdown tomorrow no matter what. Allison fell 1st round, Viv fell 2nd round...and still fought to make tv. Good going ladies. Worlds best! Good luck to everyone, see the races to 7 tomorrow.

 

[Nostroke]

Thanks for the updates and commentary sjm!

Sad to see Pan Xiao Ting didn't put up much of a fight against Jeanette Lee in the quater final. The last time they met was in a special challenge match for TV here in Shanghai that was broadcast live.

Jeanetter confidently strutted (gracefully albeit) around the table in that match too, stamping her authority over a sheepish Pan in that event. I suspect there is a mental barrier for Pan to get over here. Certainly Jeanette has been one of her idols for years.

Re: The format. It's a little unfair to those who go through the winner's side undefeated, but going dub-elim to the TV stages is confusing to viewers. Also, single elim all the way is very tough on new entrants to the tour who may draw top seeds.

I think the fairest way to get the best reps into the last 8 would be round robins races to 5 or 7. 8 groups of 8 - top 4 going into last 32. 4 groups of 8 - top 4 going into last 16. Performances determine rankings for last 16 single elim.

Groups of 8 are decided on by rankings with different seedings mixed among the initial groups. Second groupings on 8 based on performances in first round robin. eg. (1,8,9, 16, 17, 24, 25, 32), (2,7,10,15.....etc)

Granted that the 1st round might need 16 or 24 tables to get through in one day, but as these girls travel from all around the world, it seems fair to give them a good hit out to work for their achievements.

Just a thought

They aren't gonna set up 16 tables for one day, so that leaves them having the prelims at a pool hall close to the Casino and i dont think that will ever happen either.

XTP played pretty ordinary to fair vs Jeanette. She looked pretty disappointed. On the bright side, she made a few friends and everyone is saying good things about her. It will be much easier on her with some friends on the tour.

 

[rukiddingme]

Fun Fun Fun!

Just got back from the tournament.
Had a great time and saw some really good pool. Lots and lots of drama.
Sarah took GYK to the hill and lost...Monica took GYK to the hill and lost...Vivian finally took GYK out to go into the semis against Jeanette Lee. Vivian was getting stronger and stronger every match...did not seem fatigued at all unlike her competition.
Kim White will play her first TV round ever against Allison...GULP!
Allison seemed to struggle somewhat this tournament. She barely survived against Wendy Jans and her 1/4 final match against Karen Corr went hill hill.
Wendy Jans really was impressive.
GYK was just awesome but seemed to be tired out in her match against Vivian.
I'm looking forward to seeing everyone again in Peoria!
ruk