The WPBA needs some help....

M

Mowem down

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was just looking over the turneys for the year. I new they lost a few but it looks alot worse when you see it first hand, and 2 of the 5 are tentative :frown: .

They had some new faces make a showing in some finals last year, this is not a good way to back that up...I would think with 10000 pool fans on this site someone could come up with a idea or 2 too help them out. But maybe not Smokey's idea back at christmas went over like a lead balloon.

I figured I'd say somthing, I was a impressed by some of the play I saw at the Parlor on sunday. It would be a shame for the gals, not to have somthing to strive for.....
 
A large percentage of the WPBA Tour stops have and are held in casino venues. From what I hear from people that should know is the the economy is hurting a lot of casinos across the country. I have been saying for the past four years that they should seek out large sports bars to hold these tournaments in. They would probably have to lower the purse if played in sports bars, but if they could get enough nice sports bar venues they could have a stop a month. I say most of the players would be happy with a dozen or more stops a year with lower entry fees and lower purses.

I believe they feel that sports bars are not a good image for them. I wonder if they know who owned the casinos and what went on there from the start? This is 2009, not 1980. They need to get out of the casino box. Johnnyt
 
I could be wrong but i think their main problem atm is that Sponsors are cutting back. Even Tiger Woods lost Buick I've been told. Sponsors who themselves are losing money now have a hard time justifying to their shareholders an outlay without an immediate and measurable return. I dont believe this is easily fixed. It's hard to sell a sponsor when there are so few events also. When the economy turns around the WPBA will again flourish-til then it's gonna be rocky IMHO.
 
The economy definately has a lot to do with things but that just means you have to REGROUP and be CREATIVE in your resources.

Mike is on the board and he is also very good at finding solutions. I think this new team (board members) will impliment some really good things into the WPBA; they all seem to have their hearts in it.

Billiards is not an expensive past time or pro sport compared to some other sports. Everyone is feeling the crunch though. I have faith that the economy will pull back fast and hard this year. :smile:
 
BrandyWine said:
The economy definately has a lot to do with things but that just means you have to REGROUP and be CREATIVE in your resources.

Mike is on the board and he is also very good at finding solutions. I think this new team (board members) will impliment some really good things into the WPBA; they all seem to have their hearts in it.

Billiards is not an expensive past time or pro sport compared to some other sports. Everyone is feeling the crunch though. I have faith that the economy will pull back fast and hard this year. :smile:
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Pool has all the things in place too get it going somebody needs to make it happen .

You got mini tours all accross the country (men and womens) now you have the CSI that is run by (or with ) the BCA pool leagues... Its time for tour cards, and qualifiers. The IPT had the right formula just the wrong backing.

I dont know how many sports bars there are as nice as the Parlor, but it could, for sure have a tour stop. They would just have to do somthing about seating. Befor they changed the back area it would have been easyer, but know there is very little room for viewing.
 
the reason you don't see sports bars and/or other venues holding wpba events is that the wpba requires a substantial appearance fee which guarantees the top players will be there. (it's one of the reasons jasmin was fined.)

casinos can easily afford this, small business owners cannot.

(since the parlor didn't have big named pros they were probably exempt since it was only a qualifier)

i think the wpba needs to change thier business plan. i mean, seriously, you can't even buy wpba branded merchandise from their website. (the website...ugh. this is 2009 - how about updating it to today's technology?) how are fans gonna monetarily support them if they can't buy any of the goods? or even know what goods they have for sale?

and how about doing some TAR type streaming of all the events? this will promote the younger players as we'll get chances to see them in the early rounds and you can charge a PPV for the semi-finals / finals. and maybe then produce a dvd for sale of the event on the wpba website.

oh. wait. they don't have stuff for sale on the site. (yet) i'm getting ahead of myself.

i think the board's added a lot of people with pool knowledge - they need to add some people with some serious business knowledge.
 
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First off

What makes you think the economy will turn around, we are over 15 trillion dollars in debt, plus all the outsourcing, plus the health care crisis, the energy crisis, and all the other crisis going on. I don't see things being any better than they are now (especially if you read Revelations).

Pool is a disjointed sport now, and will be in the future. We are on the outside looking in. Strong Regional tours will help maintain us, but I don't predict any viable pro tours taking shape.
 
Snapshot9 said:
What makes you think the economy will turn around, we are over 15 trillion dollars in debt, plus all the outsourcing, plus the health care crisis, the energy crisis, and all the other crisis going on. I don't see things being any better than they are now (especially if you read Revelations).
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So we are doomed forever? 'Revelations'? I dont think so.
 
BrooklynJay said:
the reason you don't see sports bars and/or other venues holding wpba events is that the wpba requires a substantial appearance fee which guarantees the top players will be there. (it's one of the reasons jasmin was fined.)

casinos can easily afford this, small business owners cannot.

(since the parlor didn't have big named pros they were probably exempt since it was only a qualifier)

i think the wpba needs to change thier business plan. i mean, seriously, you can't even buy wpba branded merchandise from their website. (the website...ugh. this is 2009 - how about updating it to today's technology?) how are fans gonna monetarily support them if they can't buy any of the goods? or even know what goods they have for sale?

and how about doing some TAR type streaming of all the events? this will promote the younger players as we'll get chances to see them in the early rounds and you can charge a PPV for the semi-finals / finals. and maybe then produce a dvd for sale of the event on the wpba website.

oh. wait. they don't have stuff for sale on the site. (yet) i'm getting ahead of myself.

i think the board's added a lot of people with pool knowledge - they need to add some people with some serious business knowledge.
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WPBA is locked in with ESPN which means there won't be any streaming of matches or selling of DVDs that ESPN owns the rights to. Even so, I'm hearing rumors that the prelim matches will be streamed for free this year (which would be pretty damn sweet IMO).

Honestly I don't believe there's a market for WPBA PPV. This was pretty clear with the Tour Championship last year where they did a 2 Day PPV with TAR and the results were reported as being pretty awful from a sales POV.

As for the website, couldn't agree more. Although I do like to party like its 1999...
 
poolsnark said:
WPBA is locked in with ESPN which means there won't be any streaming of matches or selling of DVDs that ESPN owns the rights to. Even so, I'm hearing rumors that the prelim matches will be streamed for free this year (which would be pretty damn sweet IMO).

Honestly I don't believe there's a market for WPBA PPV. This was pretty clear with the Tour Championship last year where they did a 2 Day PPV with TAR and the results were reported as being pretty awful from a sales POV.

As for the website, couldn't agree more. Although I do like to party like its 1999...
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there's a rumor of issues with espn...

the ppv with TAR was low due to poor communication. announcements were made about the stream at the last minute and, frankly, people didn't know about it. there was also a free stream i believe of the men's event happening at the same time that cut some of the viewership.

i think future ppv events would produce more viewers but even with a free stream there's ways to integrate advertising to generate revenue. ipt sells advertising on the side bars as well as has commercials in the stream.

just saying that the internet's the way to go with a fringe sport like pool and there are ways to generate money. maybe not a lot but, hey, $10 is still more than the $0 that they are generating now.
 
One only needs to look at hulu.com for a way to show content via the web, still sell advertising/commercials, and make money. It's not perfect, but it's a definite start. Either starting a website like that, or getting it on there would be a good way to generate mainstream interest IMO.
 
Johnnyt said:
I say most of the players would be happy with a dozen or more stops a year with lower entry fees and lower purses.
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My best guess is that you're mistaken on this point.

No matter where a tournament is held, players have travel and lodging costs. Even if they stay at a cheap hotel and get a great airfare, it's hard to imagine it costing less than about $600 an event for hotel and transportation, and even if the entry fee were cut in half from the current amount, their total expenses would be $850. In a low purse event, only a few of them would break even or better at each event. Today, about half the field breaks even or better at each event.

Hence, my opinion is that most of the players would be unhappy with yur proposed arrangement, as they'd have to invest much more time in competition, and spend far more time away from their families for much less compensation.

And, to add a painfully dispiriting, but ultimately necessary, thought, having a five-stop tour makes it more feasible for some WPBA pros to have full-time jobs to help make ends meet as the tour weathers the economic storm affecting every sport and business. And before you dismiss the thought as unconscionable, remember that, once upon a time, both Steve Mizerak (7th grade English teacher in Perth Amboy, New Jersey) and Irving Crane (car dealer in Rochester, New York) worked full time during their respective primes.

Given its past and present of exceptional management, I feel confident that the good times will return for the WPBA organization. Having a slightly scaled down operation as a path to longer term sustenance is the solution being implemented by tens of thousands of American businesses, and shouldn't be deemed inappropriate in the case of the WPBA.
 
sjm said:
My best guess is that you're mistaken on this point.

No matter where a tournament is held, players have travel and lodging costs. Even if they stay at a cheap hotel and get a great airfare, it's hard to imagine it costing less than about $600 an event for hotel and transportation, and even if the entry fee were cut in half from the current amount, their total expenses would be $850. In a low purse event, only a few of them would break even or better at each event. Today, about half the field breaks even or better at each event.

Hence, my opinion is that most of the players would be unhappy with yur proposed arrangement, as they'd have to invest much more time in competition, and spend far more time away from their families for much less compensation.

And, to add a painfully dispiriting, but ultimately necessary, thought, having a five-stop tour makes it more feasible for some WPBA pros to have full-time jobs to help make ends meet as the tour weathers the economic storm affecting every sport and business. And before you dismiss the thought as unconscionable, remember that, once upon a time, both Steve Mizerak (7th grade English teacher in Perth Amboy, New Jersey) and Irving Crane (car dealer in Rochester, New York) worked full time during their respective primes.

Given its past and present of exceptional management, I feel confident that the good times will return for the WPBA organization. Having a slightly scaled down operation as a path to longer term sustenance is the solution being implemented by tens of thousands of American businesses, and shouldn't be deemed inappropriate in the case of the WPBA.
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You bring up very good points here, and you could be right on all of them. I just want to add two things to my above post. I forgot to say that they can do a 64 player tournament in two days cutting down expenses even more, and that entry might be $300 (total almost 20k), with avertisers adding whatever. I'm sure they would have to lower their price to the sponsers and the sport bars too. But I guess this would only work if they could find enough nice venues in the central states as the WPBA Players are from all over the US and abroad. Mid USA would help tavel costs some for most US players. Johnnyt
 
(Wearing my WPBA hat for just a moment)

Just a quick note to say that we are working on a number of items that were brought up in this message.

There are plans for streaming of the Classic Tour events in 2009, lower added money events are also being worked on as well as the website.

Most of the issues brought up in this email are things that the board is well aware of and has been working on for a while now.

Mike
 
AzHousePro said:
(Wearing my WPBA hat for just a moment)

Just a quick note to say that we are working on a number of items that were brought up in this message.

There are plans for streaming of the Classic Tour events in 2009, lower added money events are also being worked on as well as the website.

Most of the issues brought up in this email are things that the board is well aware of and has been working on for a while now.

Mike
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Thank you Mike. Johnnyt
 
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