Nuked.
Too bad for those who will never read all the free tips.
Too bad for those who will never read all the free tips.
There goes a good thread.
- Thread starter JoeyInCali
- Start date
I agree, to bad for those interested
A lot of knowledge for any new cue builder to learn has been disappeared, I imagine over the back and forth. I would be bummed if I ever wanted to build cues. Guess in the future if you see something you want to reference in the future, cut and paste it to your personal documents. Pretty sad actually all that experience and poof gone......
A lot of knowledge for any new cue builder to learn has been disappeared, I imagine over the back and forth. I would be bummed if I ever wanted to build cues. Guess in the future if you see something you want to reference in the future, cut and paste it to your personal documents. Pretty sad actually all that experience and poof gone......
Here you go Joey,
For dialing the small carbide blades, I make a sleeve with a shoulder to sit on the diameter of the teeth, and sits against the side. I can put my DTI on the outside of the sleeve to get the cutter concentric. For the 30mm carbide cutters , I made it out of Delrin plastic.
For larger cutters and wing cutters, I make them out of free cutting Ali.
Ultimately not as accurate as a dti on the cutting edge, but really easy to dial in.
Neil
Quite a shame. There was a lot of good information and I was only able to grab a few snippets before the thread was pulled.
Originally Posted by cueman
The whole reason I started using a saw instead of parting tool was not for thin rings, but is was because when doing rings with silver in the slots. The chatter caused by the silver then softer material hitting the parting tool was causing some rings to shatter. Those silver slot rings are expensive and it eliminated me shattering them. The extra benefit was I could use a .032" blade and gain several extra 1/8" long rings out of each billet.
Originally Posted by qbilder
Now that is a sensible reason. Thank you
I should clarify that only the ring in the pic took several minutes to cut. A .015" ring, the size I generally use, takes a couple seconds. I can cut those things as fast as my hands can operate the hand wheels, and eyes can read the indicator. The finished ring requires no extra work. They are too thin to do anything else to. Any attempt to do anything more than carefully slide them onto an arbor will destroy them, so they have to be correct right off the lathe. This is what I was speaking of in my earlier posts, having the ability to create rings that are true, uniform, burr free, and infinitely repeatable.
Originally Posted by Travis Niklich
The critical temp of carbide is almost twice that of HSS (1300-1400 for carbide versus 600-800 degrees F for HSS). But when HSS reaches that temp it just starts to break down slowly the cutting edges but it's much more forgiving when that happens. But when carbide reaches its upper limit of temp it starts to crack or can shatter. A Carbide cutter will also fail during the loading or unloading cycle too this happens most often when the tool first enters the cut or when it exits the cut that's why certain carbide lathe tools aren't good for interrupted cuts. I was taught the "old rule" that your chips should never be darker that a light tan. But when I actually went to machinist classes and learned the proper speeds and feeds I learned I was babying the cutter's and material to much especially with carbide. With newer carbide we use the "new rule" is the chip should be light blue when it comes of the part then turn dark blue to black in the chip pan. This takes the heat off with the chip instead of putting it into the part. You also have to take deeper cuts than you would think at school our SOP was to take off about .100 per pass to rough out the part. Then leave .050 minimum for the last past any less and the tool rides along the work and rubs more than cutting leaving a bad finish and heats up the part.
For this reason a large HSS end mill lets say one inch in diameter in a cnc mill can do much more damage than a carbide end mill. The reason is if you hit the vise for instance the carbide will shatter like a glass rod before it does much damage but the HSS mill will bend and push and even break the vise in extreme cases. You will also never see a solid carbide tool with a bent shank like you will with a HSS tool.
If I was looking to part rings with a "saw" blade I would look for one that has concave sides or that has the teeth hanging over the edge of the plate like a carbide table saw blade. When the blade is the same thickness, its not the teeth but the plate of the blade that creates the heat. This is why clearance angles are so important on cutting tools. Not enough clearance leads to rubbing the material versus cutting it.
You have to read all the comments to find where he says he is using Kennametal carbide inserts at 4000 SFM. He is cutting Inconel which is one of the hardest metals to cut know to man. It is used inside jet turbines because it can handle unbelievably high heat. Most mold shops no longer hand grind and polish die's any more now they machine then about 20-30 thousandths over size get them heat treated to a Rockwell 62-65 then put them back in a cnc mill and do whats called high speed machining with a high RPM and feed rate taking light cuts to get a mirror finish (RMS)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgsAyIVA75s&spfreload=10
Heat can kill carbide or it can be used to make it work better in this video they use the heat and the proper coatings on the cutter to do whats called "plastic deformation" it actually anneals the chip in the cut and pulls it off cherry red hot but the part stays relatively cool probably under 200 degrees F. They don't use coolant because it would kill the process and will thermally shock the carbide and fracture it.
Most of the development in cutting tool have been in the last 5-10 years and have more to do with the coating applied to the carbide substructure and the fact that the carbide can be ground to a finer texture (sub-micron carbide). The coating is what is actually in contact with the material being cut. Most people think carbide is always better because it stays sharper longer but it will dull fast if its run to slow of RPM and feed rate which is the mistake most people make with carbide. Lets look at a 1/2 inch end mill in both HSS and carbide cutting aluminum on a manual "Bridgeport mill"
So a standard HSS end mill should run around 200-300 SFM
so take 3.82 x 300 / .500 = 2,292 RPM
Then look at a high end carbide end mill like a Destiny Viper that recomends 1800-2000 SFM
so take 3.82 x 1800 / .500 = 13,752 RPM
Now I don't know of any "Bridgeport" that can run 13,000 RPM so most would be wasting money on a carbide end mill because they can't run it at a high enough RPM or feed it fast enough to take advantage of it. In this case you would get a better finish with the HSS and it would cost a lot less for the tooling. I have however run a Destiny Viper in the HAAS super speed mill where I work at 12,000 RPM and a feed rate of 300 IPM after about 4 hours of use it still looked brand new. It sounded like a buzz saw going through aluminum but left a mirror like finish.
The carbide inserts we use for the cnc turning class I'm teaching now have a recommended SFM of 1200 in steel with a .040-.140 depth of cut and a feed rate of .007-.012 IPR. You can use the following formula to calculate the RPM for a lathe or end mill and see how fast it needs to spin for that cutter to work properly.
3.82 x SFM / diameter of work for a lathe or diameter of end mill.
http://www.asminternational.org/documents/10192/22533690/06022G_Sample_BuyNow.pdf/b8f2e317-5089-44bc-a14d-af31f80e33a5
http://www.kennametal.com/content/dam/kennametal/kennametal/common/Resources/Catalogs-Literature/Industry%20Solutions/SuperAlloys_material_machining_guide_Aerospace.pdf
damn, i can't remember the name of the metal cutting fluid needed to achieve the micro rings challenge !!!
sorry, i couldn't resist hehe
:grin-square: /me runs ...
ELbeau , many thanks to have mirrored this thread !!!!!!!!!!!!!
That Metal fluid is call "Tap free" I think. I read part of it and remember some of it. You can get it from Enco or Grizzly.
So what would you suggest? When someone shows up and is adamantly wrong with their ideas because of their inability to properly set up a machine and choose the correct tooling to do the job ...... they resort to just crazy and made up fiction to compensate for their lack of knowledge. What would you suggest?
Allowing them to ramble and babble nonsense is not helping or educating anyone??
I don't know but someone told me there was a post saying I sold Thomas Wayne cues. Some nit better get his story straight.
Sells Classics.. and classically designed/made cues 99% of the time.
JV
Sells Classics.. and classically designed/made cues 99% of the time.
JV
It seems to me that every time Rick and TW get into it...the thread goes down the toilet. If they are going to trade insults or whatever, do it in PM.
If you think my "insults" toward Rick and his insults toward me are an equal "trade" then you need some remedial hep with your reading comprehension.
Particularly in THIS case, where the pivotal complaints to management spiked when Rick started comparing long-standing. well-respected members to Nazis.
TW
I don't find that to be the case at all. Some of the topics discussed require such back and forth to establish what's wrong or not. There's was a lot of things said that were blatantly false and misleading that got corrected in that thread. If you find that discussions keep people away, you are wrong. People don't participate because they don't see the benefit. You don't need every new person posting right away. Same idea pertains to established cue makers. There just is not the need for it to happen. No matter how much you believe this keeps participation down, it just flat out doesn't. Moderators going ape shit and deleting threads that contain valuable information makes people not want to participate.
That would be acceptable as long as Rick would keep his resume on his desk rather than trying to justify every it with every post he makes. I don't know how much information Rick has tried to post. But all I ever see is misinformation. I don't know how many times I've searched for the terms he's used only to not find information pertaining to his topic. Couple of times even Googles ask me if I was searching for something entirely not related to cue making. This problem would remedy itself if Rick would take the time to use correct terminology and limit the length of his responses. He justifies everything he does by saying "this is the way my mentor did it." There's no way his mentor was wrong, not a chance. Why question the master?!?! The real question is why is Rick allowed to spread such misinformation and not be punished while the guy outing his misinformation has recieve bans for it?
Thomas
I responded in a PM. But for the masses, no I dont for a minute think that the comments between you and Rick are" equal". There was some great exchange of info, but Ricks comments are in left field at times.
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Ken,
Tap Free 2 is the one without oils or silicon and is environmentally safe. They make 4 different formulas.
Rick
There's always a price for knowledge even when its handed to you. Sometimes you have to sort out the garbage from the gems. No garbage no gems 
The rules of engagement deteriorate pretty fast as desperate people grasp for self saving straws.
All this cannot be pleasant for all involved. Thank you for your efforts in challenging questionable entries and the gems that came forth.
Mario
The rules of engagement deteriorate pretty fast as desperate people grasp for self saving straws.All this cannot be pleasant for all involved. Thank you for your efforts in challenging questionable entries and the gems that came forth.
Mario
damn, i can't remember the name of the metal cutting fluid needed to achieve the micro rings challenge !!!
:grin-square: /me runs ...
ELbeau , many thanks to have mirrored this thread !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Astro glide
I thought it was Oxiclean.
No Im sure it was woollite. For the delicate cuts.
I have no issue with debating wrong or right ideas/methods. I appreciate it when you guys do. Engaging or even reciprocating with insults has never net a positive. Leave that kind of stupidity to one side and it makes it much easier to see who's the one lacking in real knowledge.
I'm also not referring to this one time either. Last week someone's thread, offering an item for sale, had to be removed because a "member with knowledge" saw fit to insult his offering. Not once but actually twice in succession.
Knowledge is great but if it comes loaded with condescension and ego its only going to work against everyone's best interest. There are a great deal of members who choose to not participate for that very reason. I know I've started threads and decided against posting because some here like making people look stupid...or new.
I know it falls on deaf ears but there should definitely be tighter moderation. The insulting posts should be addressed early on to keep things from deteriorating due to the back and forth. Better moderation probably would have saved that last thread from removal.
CMs are strange people to begin with. How many examples would you like???
When a person gets good at something, they generally know it.
That 'doing something `til you're good at it' takes dedication.
Getting better at something is a confidence builder.
That confidence in the extreme can lead to 'cocky'. No names necessary.
You now have the underlying mindset to a number of CMs. They're good at what they do and they know it.
That's all well and good until another questions it. If these two are of similar mindset, you have the perfect storm.
Now let these two arrogant A/Hs start bumping heads and things can get real ugly real quick. This isn't a secret.
Every member of AZB is empowered to be an overseer. The mods put a 'report-button' on every post.
Holy my goodness man, if one member is calling another a Nazi, hit the damn button.
I think that thread could have gone on a long time. I also think that NOBODY wants to be the snitch.
Sadly that's not going to be the last thread lost unless people start stepping-up and report the abuse.
Abuse of another member should never be allowed.
I consider what was lost in the thread to be a tragedy. I knew it would get pulled and copied all the pertinent links.
There's no way to know how much knowledge would have come down the pike had the thread continued.
I in particular want to know as much about that subject as I can possibly digest.
Education is never free but if the cost is to sit placidly by and witness the abuse of another member,
that's a price that I'm not willing to pay and I'll get my education elsewhere.
I'm greatly appreciative for the positive contributions. Thank You Gentlemen for sharing your knowledge.
There are also some things I've learned that I wish I hadn't.
KJ
When a person gets good at something, they generally know it.
That 'doing something `til you're good at it' takes dedication.
Getting better at something is a confidence builder.
That confidence in the extreme can lead to 'cocky'. No names necessary.
You now have the underlying mindset to a number of CMs. They're good at what they do and they know it.
That's all well and good until another questions it. If these two are of similar mindset, you have the perfect storm.
Now let these two arrogant A/Hs start bumping heads and things can get real ugly real quick. This isn't a secret.
Every member of AZB is empowered to be an overseer. The mods put a 'report-button' on every post.
Holy my goodness man, if one member is calling another a Nazi, hit the damn button.
I think that thread could have gone on a long time. I also think that NOBODY wants to be the snitch.
Sadly that's not going to be the last thread lost unless people start stepping-up and report the abuse.
Abuse of another member should never be allowed.
I consider what was lost in the thread to be a tragedy. I knew it would get pulled and copied all the pertinent links.
There's no way to know how much knowledge would have come down the pike had the thread continued.
I in particular want to know as much about that subject as I can possibly digest.
Education is never free but if the cost is to sit placidly by and witness the abuse of another member,
that's a price that I'm not willing to pay and I'll get my education elsewhere.
I'm greatly appreciative for the positive contributions. Thank You Gentlemen for sharing your knowledge.
There are also some things I've learned that I wish I hadn't.
KJ