They say this game is 90%.half mental?

[justadub]

90% 1/2 mental?

Good God, how the educational system failed us.

Oh. My. God.

Heavens help us, that there are so many here on these boards who have no knowledge of the esteemed philosopher and social commentator Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra.....?

That quote is his, and is rather famous. Really, folks? And it was before my time, too....and I'm no New Yorker, for sure.

The educational system hasn't failed in this instance. Hee hee.

 

[Shaky1]

^^^^^^^ Ha Ha! I knew somebody would get it.
I really do think it is more mental than anything. Sometimes I can't get my head into it to save my life and can't make two balls in a row.
Then something happens, like turning on a light switch. You start to make everything.
Of course it doesn't last though. You play good for an hour or two, maybe a day or two, then again something happens and you are back to doing stupid things again. Right now I seem to be stuck on stupid.

 

[Shaky1]

I got ball in hand the other night with 3 balls on the table. For the life of me , I could not decide which ball to shoot first. I almost just handed it back to my opponent. No matter what ball I wanted to take first, I could see something bad possibly happening.
Any other night I probably could have used any ball first and got them out.

Not that night.

 

[Dunnn51]

Yogiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

I don't believe it! I think it's 99.9 % mental, and I only know at best, 60%!
I had one of those nights! We were playing 3 ball, I did not win a game until it was tied a few times,and then something happened! For some unknown reason good things would happen.! Either I would make 2 balls on the break and be dead in on the last shot, or I would be able to make 2 balls with my next shot!
I won every single big pot!
Hard as I might try, this did not happen if it was a new game.

I got cursed more than a few times over the course of the evening. lol
I can't explain it at all ?
Luck?
Maybe a few times.
Something in the air?
I don't know!
All I do know, is that I could not beat my Grandmother yesterday.
I was not sure of ANY shot! Today I felt like I could do anything!
What the heck happened, and how do I keep it?

I can't believe that ppl did not know this was a "Yogi Berra" quote. The OP obviously said it toungue-in-cheek.
That aside, I can relate (quite well too!), do your question. Most times when I just shoot and it goes right in, I am not even thinking,.... just going on reflex. I didn't think about pre-shot routine, line of sight, where the CB would end up, or where the OB would be if I missed. You just have to smile and roll with it. You just shot using subconcious memory.

(I once had a solid S/L 7 buried by 3 balls a diamond out of the corner of the table. CB was at the other end, he couldn't see it on either end. I was plotting my BIH for next turn when he walked up to the table and just shot a masse'. The ball squirted out around its blocker, headed for the side rail, then hooked sharply left.My jaw dropped to the floor when he pocketed in the corner!) Frank just gave a 1/2 smile and looked at me,.... I just stood there astonished.

In this state -- your mind is thinking one thing, while your body is doing another. With Frank's shot as an example, he had nothing to lose even though he was a very good masse' shooter, the odds were slim to even hit the ball let alone pocket. He was relaxed, his subconcious took over from all of his practice physically. With nothing to lose, he took his best try.

I think we have all taken a shot like this ! I know I have. Probably mentioned that "The pool Gods" were smiling on me too.

 

[Shaky1]

I can't believe that ppl did not know this was a "Yogi Berra" quote. The OP obviously said it toungue-in-cheek.
That aside, I can relate (quite well too!), do your question. Most times when I just shoot and it goes right in, I am not even thinking,.... just going on reflex. I didn't think about pre-shot routine, line of sight, where the CB would end up, or where the OB would be if I missed. You just have to smile and roll with it. You just shot using subconcious memory.

(I once had a solid S/L 7 buried by 3 balls a diamond out of the corner of the table. CB was at the other end, he couldn't see it on either end. I was plotting my BIH for next turn when he walked up to the table and just shot a masse'. The ball squirted out around its blocker, headed for the side rail, then hooked sharply left.My jaw dropped to the floor when he pocketed in the corner!) Frank just gave a 1/2 smile and looked at me,.... I just stood there astonished.

In this state -- your mind is thinking one thing, while your body is doing another. With Frank's shot as an example, he had nothing to lose even though he was a very good masse' shooter, the odds were slim to even hit the ball let alone pocket. He was relaxed, his subconcious took over from all of his practice physically. With nothing to lose, he took his best try.

I think we have all taken a shot like this ! I know I have. Probably mentioned that "The pool Gods" were smiling on me too.

Yes, many times I have made a shot in a game that was a "must make" at the time, and I knew that I could set that shot up again 100 more times and possibly not make it again. Some times things just happen.

 

[whitewolf]

Thanks cj. I actually have noticed with my increased amount of time playing I am not folding near as much. Last couple of days I have responded to the pressure big time. Even when I don't feel like I'm in gear and it doesn't seem easy I am still running out. Its like the increased muscle memory and repetition has made it automatic and taken a large chunk of the mental game out of the equation. More practice has allowed me to think less about it and play better. I think most of az has no idea how lucky they are to have you (cj) share such great advice and opinions so freely. SO I'' say thank you for some of them. :thumbup:

I thought advertising was not allowed.

 

[whitewolf]

It's paradoxical to think of pool being 90% mental....it would be like trying to believe playing the piano, painting a picture, or fixing the engine in a car is "90% mental"....the only way I may say that is after the statement "after you get the physical pre shot routine down perfectly" ... then pool may actually be 90% mental....and until then pool is closer to 90% Physical because if you even have the slightest physical piece out of your "game engine" it won't' matter how much mental horsepower you put in to it you will still play inconsisantly .... and I will debate that point with anyone, so WORK ON YOUR PRE SHOT ROUTINE, if it isn't consistent then your game will never be consistent - it will take a great deal of strain off you mentally in the process :thumbup: www.cjwiley.com

Exactly. Tap tap tap!!!

I would like to add that you can have all the basics down (stance, alignment etc) but have a grip that is not conducive to followint through straight. Also, for me, putting a nice pause in at the back of the backswing does wonders for a straight follow-thru. The grip is one of the most overlooked considerations in a good pool stroke. BTW, Mr. Wiley, I have noticed that your grip is really weird (no one I know grips the cue that way).

 

[mista335]

90% 1/2 mental?

Good God, how the educational system failed us.

Guess pool must be 45% mental.

Or half of pool is 90% mental.

This starting to stretch my mental arithmetic.

Or maybe it's 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I got ball in hand the other night with 3 balls on the table. For the life of me , I could not decide which ball to shoot first. I almost just handed it back to my opponent. No matter what ball I wanted to take first, I could see something bad possibly happening.
Any other night I probably could have used any ball first and got them out.

Not that night.

Sounds like you need a liquid shot of Captain Confidence. The table tells you how to shoot them. Just read the road map & take the path of least resistance. Have fun!

 

[macguy]

I don't believe it! I think it's 99.9 % mental, and I only know at best, 60%!
I had one of those nights! We were playing 3 ball, I did not win a game until it was tied a few times,and then something happened! For some unknown reason good things would happen.! Either I would make 2 balls on the break and be dead in on the last shot, or I would be able to make 2 balls with my next shot!
I won every single big pot!
Hard as I might try, this did not happen if it was a new game.

I got cursed more than a few times over the course of the evening. lol
I can't explain it at all ?
Luck?
Maybe a few times.
Something in the air?
I don't know!
All I do know, is that I could not beat my Grandmother yesterday.
I was not sure of ANY shot! Today I felt like I could do anything!
What the heck happened, and how do I keep it?

Everything is not 99% mental it is 100% mental. It is the conscious mind that gets in the way of everything. We trust what we know we can do without reservations. You get in your car and go on your way and don't dwell on how bad you can get hurt in an accident even though there is real danger we dismiss it. It is what keeps us sane.

The interesting thing about fear and doubt when you are doing something like playing pool is, there is no real danger, it is all imagined. It is your mind creating imaginary irrational fears. Once you can take a reality check it all goes away. In fact quite the contrary, you will feel excited with the prospect of competing and showing off your skills you have complete confidence in.

I learned this from a guy who used to come in my pool room who was a relief pitcher in the big leagues. I remember asking him, doesn't it scare you coming into a game where so much pressure is on you, aren't you afraid you may screw up? He said "no, I'm not afraid of anything, in fact nothing is better then coming in in a critical situation, I look forward to it, I can't wait to get in the game".

In pool you can sit in the chair waiting your turn scared to death you are going to screw up and create a "Self fulfilling prophecy", or you can sit there waiting for your chance to show what you can do, excited to get your turn.

 

[macguy]

It's paradoxical to think of pool being 90% mental....it would be like trying to believe playing the piano, painting a picture, or fixing the engine in a car is "90% mental"....the only way I may say that is after the statement "after you get the physical pre shot routine down perfectly" ... then pool may actually be 90% mental....and until then pool is closer to 90% Physical because if you even have the slightest physical piece out of your "game engine" it won't' matter how much mental horsepower you put in to it you will still play inconsisantly .... and I will debate that point with anyone, so WORK ON YOUR PRE SHOT ROUTINE, if it isn't consistent then your game will never be consistent - it will take a great deal of strain off you mentally in the process :thumbup: www.cjwiley.com

That is true to an extent, but with the experienced player it is only true till the first time they screw up and the doubts begin. Then the muscle memory and all that you have taught yourself can be interrupted by the conscious mind. The best examples of this is public speaking. A person who has been speaking all their lives can begin to shake, not be able to form words or thought and the body actually go through physical changes often to the point of fainting.

It is all mental even if it is taking place in the subconscious. You certainly need a good foundation through practice but for it to be dependable it requires the mental strength to allow it to happen. At any time this can be undermined with no more then a negative thought.

 

[Ratta]

It's paradoxical to think of pool being 90% mental....it would be like trying to believe playing the piano, painting a picture, or fixing the engine in a car is "90% mental"....the only way I may say that is after the statement "after you get the physical pre shot routine down perfectly" ... then pool may actually be 90% mental....and until then pool is closer to 90% Physical because if you even have the slightest physical piece out of your "game engine" it won't' matter how much mental horsepower you put in to it you will still play inconsisantly .... and I will debate that point with anyone, so WORK ON YOUR PRE SHOT ROUTINE, if it isn't consistent then your game will never be consistent - it will take a great deal of strain off you mentally in the process :thumbup: www.cjwiley.com

Great chosen words!!!

This is also in my opinion the thing, where the most players all over the planet is struggling. Some are playing for decades without being able to align perfectly and neither being able to deliver the cueball from A to B (the "wanted and planned point B, lol).
Once you have practiced hard enough, and having the ability to stroke where you want and furthermore being able to *let you body do* what you want him to do....then the game is becoming more and more a mental war.
And then you have the next problem-.........to put it all together

lg
from overseas,

Ingo, who s really glad that CJ is showing up here with so many great gems!

Thx Mr CJ Wiley

 

[CJ Wiley]

Tennis Grip in Pool

- Yes I use what's most commonly called an Eastern Tennis Grip....While I was developing as a young pool player I also played a lot of tennis and was able to use the power elements of that grip in my pool game....I can use a convectional grip if I want, but it's not as effective for me personally....this is also similar to the right handed golf grip as well...I don't recommend it unless you've played a lot of either tennis or golf.


2006_04_19_grip_guide_2.jpg[/IMG]

Exactly. Tap tap tap!!!

I would like to add that you can have all the basics down (stance, alignment etc) but have a grip that is not conducive to followint through straight. Also, for me, putting a nice pause in at the back of the backswing does wonders for a straight follow-thru. The grip is one of the most overlooked considerations in a good pool stroke. BTW, Mr. Wiley, I have noticed that your grip is really weird (no one I know grips the cue that way).

 

[Snapshot9]

Pool

When 2 skilled Pool Players play, the game will become more mental than between 2 bangers playing. It involves making good decisions. I play a lot of young players that their skill level is near to mine, but I beat them with experience by making better decisions than they do. If I am doubt any at all about getting out, I always have defense as a presence of mind, and I decide exactly when and where I will make a defensive shot.

This is not simply hooking them, sometimes, if a hook is not likely, it is leaving them a shot that is a very low percentage shot for them.

The young players that progress the fastest, and smarten up their game are the players that take up playing on big tables, and play one pocket. I don't usually play big tables anymore, but I am going to start back to 'sharpen up' my game. One Pocket is a great teaching game, for banking, for seeing shots, and for defense.

Pool, at times, becomes like a chess game, espeially involving safety play, and you have to make good decisions and executions to come out on top.

Pool can also be mental when involved a in a good money game, when making those good decisions become even more important, because 1 mistake can cause you to lose a whole match. Playing for high stakes puts more internal pressure on you to execute smoothly.

 

[ComptonCustomCues]

I thought advertising was not allowed.

???????????????????????????

 

[mista335]

I was three quarters half joking when I wrote that.

Shame, cause if you were 100% half joking I would have picked up on that.

 

[whitewolf]

???????????????????????????

Here are AZ's forum rules, which you are clearly violating:

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We are not enacting any major changes and these rules will not affect the vast majority of posters.

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[lfigueroa]

I don't believe it! I think it's 99.9 % mental, and I only know at best, 60%!
I had one of those nights! We were playing 3 ball, I did not win a game until it was tied a few times,and then something happened! For some unknown reason good things would happen.! Either I would make 2 balls on the break and be dead in on the last shot, or I would be able to make 2 balls with my next shot!
I won every single big pot!
Hard as I might try, this did not happen if it was a new game.

I got cursed more than a few times over the course of the evening. lol
I can't explain it at all ?
Luck?
Maybe a few times.
Something in the air?
I don't know!
All I do know, is that I could not beat my Grandmother yesterday.
I was not sure of ANY shot! Today I felt like I could do anything!
What the heck happened, and how do I keep it?

I don't know that there's any reliable way to get into that fugue state we call "dead stroke," other than constant study and practice. And then there’s the issue of “dead stroke” as a moving target.



IMO, dead stroke happens because on certain days many small physical things happen to sync up for us. Some of these little things are seemingly insignificant, but actually quite important to whatever idiosyncratic quirks make up our individual body mechanics and stroke. The mental state is just a manifestation the confidence we end up feeling and perhaps mild euphoria.



So I think dead stroke visits us when we're doing one, two, or maybe more things, differently than before. Perhaps a bit more of a step to the left, establishing contact between bridge hand and cue shaft with different motion, a slightly longer or shorter bridge, a longer or shorter grip, a slightly turned wrist there, a higher or lower head, a more level cue, a longer back stroke, a more relaxed or tighter bridge, and so on. On occasion, all this comes together to produce a precise stroke and the ability to do what we will with the cue ball.

Then, the mental part of dead stroke comes to us and we become absorbed by our ability to execute shots with sharpened precision. The next day, we go to the table and, because we're not machines, we do it a bit differently, and end up with different results.



Way back when, I would notice that if I just played very quickly, without thinking, I could play "very well." I would run around the table, collapse into a stance, throw a hodge podge of sometimes unorthodox bridges on the table, and zip the balls into the pockets. I could run a lot of balls this way. The problem was that this "system" wasn't reliable enough to count on.



Nowadays, it's more the opposite. I find that it's when I'm concentrating on the balls and table, considering every nuance of the upcoming shot, position play, table layout, and using a very studied technique, that I play "very well.

"

So why the difference? I think it’s because the words "(play) very well" have a different meaning for me now than before. The lack of reliability that I experienced as a younger player was because I just wasn't good enough and didn’t have the knowledge I have today. The failure of my earlier "system" was actually my failure as a player. I could only play so well and missed the balls and position plays I was suppose to miss -- at the time -- not knowing I was suppose to miss them and blaming the "system."



Now, I think I have a better appreciation for how difficult the game can be, and can more clearly see what I don't know and might not be able to execute. I also now know, with much more accuracy, what playing "very well" means. Many times in the past, I thought I was playing "very well." Now, I have a much more narrow definition of those words and they require a much higher level of precision and consistency in execution than I would have used just six months ago.



So what does this mean? I dunno. Perhaps it's just that "dead stroke" means different things to different people, and different things at different times in our lives. Certainly, "dead stroke" for a player that has only been playing for a year or two, means something quite different than to a player with twenty or thirty years of playing experience. And because we keep "raising the bar," dead stroke always remains elusive and a very hard place to get to.

Lou Figueroa

 

[ENGLISH!]

- Yes I use what's most commonly called an Eastern Tennis Grip....While I was developing as a young pool player I also played a lot of tennis and was able to use the power elements of that grip in my pool game....I can use a convectional grip if I want, but it's not as effective for me personally....this is also similar to the right handed golf grip as well...I don't recommend it unless you've played a lot of either tennis or golf.


2006_04_19_grip_guide_2.jpg[/IMG]

Off topic, but with that type of grip, is the stroke more like a stabbing action & is it more conducive to a piston stroke rather than a pendulum? I would like very much to hear your opinions on the two(2) types of strokes. The benfits & pitfalls, etc. & whether you think the pivot point should be the elbow or the shoulder. Maybe you should start a seperate thread. Or maybe I shoud. Thanks in advance.

 

[CJ Wiley]

That is true to an extent, but with the experienced player it is only true till the first time they screw up and the doubts begin. Then the muscle memory and all that you have taught yourself can be interrupted by the conscious mind. The best examples of this is public speaking. A person who has been speaking all their lives can begin to shake, not be able to form words or thought and the body actually go through physical changes often to the point of fainting.

It is all mental even if it is taking place in the subconscious. You certainly need a good foundation through practice but for it to be dependable it requires the mental strength to allow it to happen. At any time this can be undermined with no more then a negative thought.

So if that much is mental, what is physical? Why is it I can watch a player for a few minutes and know how well they play by their body? I understand doubts can come up if "all that you have taught yourself" has a piece out of whack....I've experienced that and I'm pretty sure all Top Pros have at one time or another....The mental part is important, but I still believe you have to have a flawless pre-shot routine before it becomes dominant.