Thinking about going Pro

Dear KeithMonti--

It's tough when the thing you love doesn't pay enough to make a living. That's the problem you are faced with. I think you should listen to the sage advice from "the best plumber in the room," and I imagine that you are smart enough to realize that KTownD's advice was meant ironically, that is, he was pulling your leg. Develop a skill that the world needs and wants. Play poker or pool on the side.


But the situation is actually far worse than it appears in this discussion. (I am assuming that you live in the USA.) I first picked up a pool cue in 1960. At that time there were several poolrooms in every city of any size, and the people who played in them had disposabl income. Now there are a great many cities of that size that have only one room--if by a poolroom you mean a place that has 4.5' x 9' tables and serious players (= non-league)--and many such cities have none. Often now the people in what real pool rooms still exist do not have disposable income of any size. I won't even approach what it must be like for someone now to go around and play on bar tables in taverns. The mind recoils.

I am not sure any longer that pool is even going to see me out of my life as a recreational activity, let alone as a way to make a living.

Wise up. Go straight.
 
I'm a level four thinker...

Spimp13 said:
In poker would you consider yourself a level 1, level 2, level 3, or level 4 thinker? If you need to ask me what that is poker is not for you.
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Even being a level 4 thinker doesn't guarantee success and the swings are still gonna be there. I've had success at poker, won a seat at a world series event in my first tournament and did well in it and have won several smaller tournaments and I wouldn't consider playing poker as my main source of income.

The swings are too great...

Jaden

p.s. In the wsop event I played in, about 5 rounds in another player with a little more chips than me sat down. I had been doubling up every other round, so I figured he was probably an aggressive player. I hit pocket aces in early position pre-flop and limped in. He raises to 800 when the average chip count is probably 2200-2300.

It was what I was expecting and hoping for. I put him on a moderate pocket pair or maybe big slick. I push and he insta calls to see his hopes dashed when I turn over aces. He had jacks. While our chips were in the middle and we were waiting for the rest of the cards, Mike the mouth (who was taking a break from an adjacent table), comes over and loudly proclaims "Jesus, you guys have more chips in the middle than we have at our table"...

I had to laugh as the chips were pushed over to my side of the table. While that was only level three thinking at best, later on I used level four thinking against a puerto rican pro to straight up bluff him off the hand, Michael Mizrachi saw my cards as I mucked them and smiled about it, cause that puerto rican was the tourny chip leader and had been bullying everyone, which I had used to my advantage in that hand.
 
keithmonti said:
Here's my question (s)?
How much can your average pro billiard player expect to make ? .. It's either that or Poker for me. I prefer playing Billiards but poker apparently pays more.
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welcome!

However, I would think anyone who plays either pool or poker at a high level already knows the answer to your question (poker, duh)

Follow your passion..........its not always about what profession makes the most money
 
Jaden said:
Even being a level 4 thinker doesn't guarantee success and the swings are still gonna be there. I've had success at poker, won a seat at a world series event in my first tournament and did well in it and have won several smaller tournaments and I wouldn't consider playing poker as my main source of income.

The swings are too great...

Jaden

p.s. In the wsop event I played in, about 5 rounds in another player with a little more chips than me sat down. I had been doubling up every other round, so I figured he was probably an aggressive player. I hit pocket aces in early position pre-flop and limped in. He raises to 800 when the average chip count is probably 2200-2300.

It was what I was expecting and hoping for. I put him on a moderate pocket pair or maybe big slick. I push and he insta calls to see his hopes dashed when I turn over aces. He had jacks. While our chips were in the middle and we were waiting for the rest of the cards, Mike the mouth (who was taking a break from an adjacent table), comes over and loudly proclaims "Jesus, you guys have more chips in the middle than we have at our table"...

I had to laugh as the chips were pushed over to my side of the table. While that was only level three thinking at best, later on I used level four thinking against a puerto rican pro to straight up bluff him off the hand, Michael Mizrachi saw my cards as I mucked them and smiled about it, cause that puerto rican was the tourny chip leader and had been bullying everyone, which I had used to my advantage in that hand.
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I agree completely...and was just using it as an example in the poker world. You would still need to have good BRM to help cover the swings (variance), especially if you are running majorly under EV. I've seen some pretty sick under EV graphs that as a poker player would make me want to puke just knowing how that person feels. There is a ton of more money to be made in poker, but there are still only a select few who really do well over a long period of time and don't just get lucky and bink once :D.
 
Wanna be pro billiards player? First thing you do is get 2 or 3 million dollars.... Then go pro.
 
The best answer is the 2012 money list (2013 isn't finished yet):

http://www.azbilliards.com/people/azb-money-leaderboard/2012/all/

So, what do you consider an "average" pro player?
If you're in the top 500, you will make about $1,200 lol. That's basically people nobody's heard of.
If you're in the top 200, you might make $3,500. A few well-known players in this range like Chris Bartram.
If you manage to get top 100 in the world, you're close to former US Open champs and runner-ups! ~$10,000
To actually make 30, 40, 50,000 a year and live on just pool? You need to be top 30 in the world.

Of course this doesn't count endorsements, gambling, etc. But it also doesn't count travel, hotel, etc.
In short: It's almost impossible to make a living playing pro pool. If you enjoy it, do it as a '2nd job' and
maybe poker can be your main job.
 
I started playing poker to pay myself through 5 years of university. Its now how I make my living. Hell of a lot of luck needed to get you off your feet and running. Starting out with a bankroll of anything less than 20k would be the dumbest choice you'd ever make. To play cash games for example with a 20k bankroll...the stakes may be low, but the players at the level you'd be playing at are good and make it almost impossible to earn a living from just that.

If you are to play, do like I did. Go to university and play whilst you're there. If by the time university is over you've managed to get lucky and make enough to put aside 5 years worth of money for "just incase" then take it up full time. If not then you have an education to rely on.

As for pool...I'd have to get paid 5x what the highest earners in the game make to consider playing it full time. Its harsh not only on the body, but relationships and family.
 
3andstop said:
Oh yeah .... well take some of this ..... Hot's on the left, Cold's on the right and shit flows downhill ... 1/4" to the foot.

and I can hang my butt crack out with the best of em. :thumbup:



BTW I'm not a plumber, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once. :thumbup:
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and payday is Friday, and DON'T bite ur fingernails! :)
Most of all.....keep your mouth closed when running the drain machine! ;)
 
keithmonti said:
Hi Guys,
I'm new here don't really post much on forums. Here's my question (s)?

How much can your average pro billiard player expect to make ? Let me explain ... It's either that or Poker for me. I prefer playing Billiards but poker apparently pays more.

I also read this article from Toni Judet, it disillusioned me a bit he chose poker of Billiards http://www.pokerlistings.com/toni-judet-in-poker-and-billiards-you-have-to-wait-for-your-moment-60334

Do you agree with what he said ?

Thanks
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I think the lifestyles are somewhat the same. If you don't mind late nights, travel, cheap hotels, watchin' your back, being around drunks at times, loud music, flaky women, poor conditions at times, cigarette smoke, and being on the hustle to just get by when ya have to then go for it. I think your chances of making a living a being happy with your income are about ninety nine percent against ya. It takes a special person, an if you think SVB was gifted, I would say somewhat, but the root of his skill comes from his family history of pool room ownership and all family members who have played since birth, and have been taught properly. Many in his family have gone thru the hard parts in life and let he be fully aware of what was before him. If you weren't born with a cue stick in your hand, your chances of making it are even more unlikely. There's always that exception, but I think that person would never ask this question here. JMHO
If your body can handle sitting down ten hours a day as compared to standing and walking the same amount, that's another Huge concern. Oh yeah, in pool ya better be in perfect mental and physical shape to Maybe get there, also be able to stay away from the temptations that boredom brings.
 
I don't know how old you are. But deciding at some point in life that you want to "become" a professional pool player, is the same as "deciding" at 34 to play in the NBA. No...... you aren't. However poker.... this is a different story. You can read books. You can become better. It is still absurdly hard. The best tournament players in the world cash around 20-23% of the time.
I would say...take 10 grand. (I'm assuming you have atleast this to kick around). Use 5 to put yourself in various No Cap games in Vegas. Use the other 5 to match up at Vegas pool halls, maybe you could crush the local shortstops. Whichever one you do well in, choose it. If neither.. there are worse things than a suit and tie.
 
Chicken out, listen to the nay sayr'????

Or save 5k, find a reliable car, hit the road, see how long you can last. Find a way to make some extra income while you travel, just enough to help with expenses, that's what hurts, gas, food, hotel.....If you can make enough to break even on that, your ahead of the game. If you take care not to find major trouble, have enough common sense to see it, then avoid it. Worst that can happen, you get your ass busted......I don't think there is a real player that ever lived that has not been busted...

Use my yard stick for your first trip. Whats the goal?

1 week
4 weeks
2 months
6 months
Year? Travel for what ever time you pick, and if your even or hopfully ahead of the game, you succeed, and will have stories for a life time. Or play it safe, and never know if you could......Get a partner that's as good as you
split EVERYTHING 50-50 expenses, food, room, gas, action, all 50/50......

Both start with 5k (or what ever you decide) that way, you get busted together, or rich.......dream big, and just go give it a shot. Don't listen to the people that don't have the gut's to try.

The story when your older will go like this (i assume your young, if not the story's still work)

"Let me tell you the time i wen't on the road playing pool for a year.......we made money, and had a blast"

OR

Let me tell you about the time we wen't on the road, we traveled through
15 states, saw all kinds of people, and landmarks, made it around 3 months, then got busted, but what a 3 months it was!"

Win Win my friend.......:thumbup:

You might ask how is going 3 months, seeing 15 states, and getting busted a win!!?? Cause people spend more $$ to do less in a week! And wont have as much fun.

Just make sure you take a day in each spot, to see something unique.
AZ Grand canyon
Colorado: Rockies
Las Vegas: The Red Rooster :D:D:D (inside joke for vegas locals)
Reno NV: Go rope a mustang....If the farm is still around?
You get the point, see stuff, every stop! Make it filled with memory's!

I would say only ever put 10% of your bank roll into play, some would disagree, old school players for sure, they slapped down the wad fast....i have more of a grinder
way of thinking, long haul, long trip, don't want to risk turning for home 30 miles out!

Just my 2 cents
 
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JAM said:
Mama said don't let your babies grow up to be pool players -- unless you live in the Philippines. ;)
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I don't know ya, but just love some of the thing's you write. :thumbup:

DO you regret getting in the car with
 

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I hate to say it but without a fake bill and more than questionable character you likely won't end up anywhere playing pool... And even with those u will end up in a different place than you were trying to get to.....

If you want a trial by fire take your stake, hit Nashville or Bartram's neck of the woods... If you come out with all the money you have a chance of doing it the right way... If not...

Chris
 
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