This Aiming System Crap is Killing Me

cuetechasaurus said:
John, would you mind making a video describing in detail how to use CTE? I saw your video where you are talking about finding the aiming line, but you didn't explain how to use the system exactly. All this talk has made me interested in learning this system.
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I am not discussing the technical details on AZ any longer. If you want to learn it then please join our CTE study group here. http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/cte-students/

Plus this thread is not about how to learn CTE - there are several already talking about that. This thread is about whether CTE is "crap" or not because we are not robots. Or something like that.
 
exoldschoolpro said:
JB, i don't have a problem traveling a couple of hundred miles when i can get away from the business. You know where i live,maybe we could meet halfway and play some 500.00 sets. I do have one rule,the one loosing is the only one who can quit. No one beats me until i'm the one throwing in the towel. Being as your a old road player this shouldn't be a problem. I would also have to be on the list of the 5 players! I also have no problem with different opinions,its really the opposite. As far as your aiming system,i would be curious to see it in person. This would be the only way to convince me it works.
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I have never quit anyone winner in my life. It's cost me a lot of money playing guys with a seemingly unlimited supply of drugs to keep them awake but I don't quit people winner.

Although I have to say that there are several times when I WISH that I had followed Buddy Hall's statement, "If you don't quit winner then when are you supposed to quit?"

As far as the CTE system I talk about it's not MY aiming system and for the past decade it's only "in person" that people ever really "get it". Then they come on here and start talking about how great it is FOR THEM and other people get their underwear twisted trying to bring those people down. I'd be happy to show it to you in person and if it helps you great and if not then nothing lost except a little time.
 
Yes,i have also faded many marathon players playing with a mixture. I'm not one of them. I am getting up there in age though,over middle age so i guess i would fall under 3/4 age,out of shape and i think i could still play over 40hrs with no breaks all on the natural/heart!
 
JB Cases said:
[...]
I don't know who is disallowing the human nature. I think everyone who supports using "non-traditional" aiming systems knows that the human being is the largest and most fragile variable in the equation.

Boro Nut wrote a scathing attack on CTE where he said one thing that holds true for EVERYONE. He said how can you misjudge where the aiming line because the balls don't move until you hit them.

This is 100% true. The balls sit there inanimate and you have to manipulate them. So whatever approach you use to do that is yours to screw up.
[...]
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Boro Nut's original post can be found here:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=2440413#post2440413

A gentle warning to aiming system devotees -- Boro Nut's thoughts will read like an icepick in the eye, but as John says, there's some truth to the things he wrote, concerning the balls don't do anything until you yourself *do* something to them. How you do that, is entirely up to you. It is obvious though -- overwhelming consensus -- that snooker players use ghostball/contact-point aiming. Aiming systems like CTE seem to be unique to pool players.

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
Boro Nut's original post can be found here:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=2440413#post2440413

A gentle warning to aiming system devotees -- Boro Nut's thoughts will read like an icepick in the eye, but as John says, there's some truth to the things he wrote, concerning the balls don't do anything until you yourself *do* something to them. How you do that, is entirely up to you. It is obvious though -- overwhelming consensus -- that snooker players use ghostball/contact-point aiming. Aiming systems like CTE seem to be unique to pool players.

-Sean
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Actually, Steve Davis teaches a fractional covering method where he breaks the shots down to a Full Ball, Half Ball and Quarter Ball and says that almost all shots are those hits or "just in between". All throughout the segment on aiming that is easily found on YouTube he says nothing about ghost ball and nothing about contact points. Steve Davis for those who don't know was the multiple times world champion at snooker. In that video Steve also has an interesting and logical lesson on stance and balance which relates to how one's stance can make one unbalanced as the stroke comes toward completion.

FWIW, I had a book, which came to us from the publisher, which was written by an englishman who tried to write a book teaching pool and in that book aiming was also taught using the same fractional method described by Davis.

And lastly, can't cite the source, but SOMEWHERE online is a reference to a much older work - say 40s-60s or so that also teaches the same method as Davis. I came across this like 7 years and many hard drives ago while in the midst of yet another of these endless Aiming debates.

So I'd be hesitant to say that all snooker players use the contact point/ghost ball methods exclusively.
 
You are right. They don't use any system at all.

e: But Jack Karnehm in his coaching videos shows the ghostball method for practicing purposes.
 
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ThePoliteSniper said:
You are right. They don't use any system at all.
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We can play the semantics game if you like. System, method, routine, whatever you want to call it you are dead wrong if you don't think that some snooker players have ways of doing things that are SYSTEMATIC and repeatable.

If Steve Davis teaches a fractional cover method of approaching a shot to fix the aiming then that's a repeatable method or system of finding the aiming line.

Now MAYBE he doesn't actually use the method he teaches - I don't have any reason to think he would teach something he doesn't use - maybe it's so ingrained that he doesn't consciously think that this shot is a 3/4 ball hit - he just sees it right away. I would tend to think that most players who do or did use any system, method or routine do it so often that it becomes part of their rhythm and an automatic act - so much so that to the observer it's simply fluid motion.

I will ask former multi-time Snooker World Champion Kelly Fisher next time I speak with her about how she was taught to aim in snooker and what she does now.
 
ThePoliteSniper said:
You are right. They don't use any system at all.

e: But Jack Karnehm in his coaching videos shows the ghostball method for practicing purposes.
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Well, it does seem as if a lot of instructors who have never achieved anything of note in the sport of pool or snooker tend to use ghost ball in their videos and books.

I would guess it's because ghost ball is the easiest thing in the world for people to understand conceptually. Did he also mention the 432 aiming aids that have been developed to help people "see" the imaginary ball?

Many years ago there was a Pool and Billiard Magazine survey of several active professional pool players regarding how they aim and IIRC very few of them said that they aim using Ghost Ball.

So with all due respect I would rather accept Steve Davis' instruction on the subject rather than Jack Karnhem, whoever that is if I had to choose between the two.
 
“You won’t find a better set of snooker information anywhere. I would defy ANYBODY’S game not to improve if you stick to Nic’s methods – and this will stay with you for life.
I know this because Nic and I see the game the same way, and both have an appreciation for the finer points of the game.”
Ronnie O’Sullivan,
Three Time World Snooker Champion

http://www.thesnookergym.com/aiming.html (sound familar? What do you want to bet he's not teaching Ghost Ball here?)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't use any systems? I wouldn't be so sure of that.
 
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You know what? I am not going to publish all the links but there are lively discussions on snooker forums about how to aim and certainly some SYSTEMS that people use. Ever heard of BOB?

So here - have fun -

http://www.thesnookerforum.com

http://www.thesnookergym.com/forums/

And just for the record Polite Sniper this is one of the posts from Terry Davidson who runs a pretty respectable school to teach Snooker.

"The system I teach is from TheSnookerGym and Nic Barrow has proof that system works plus an endorsement from who almost everyone considers is the best player in the world right now, Ronnie O'Sullivan.

Why don't you get some endorsements from good players who use your 'system' and publish them? Nothing like a good endorsement to boost your sales

Terry"

Original Source: http://www.thesnookerforum.com/boar...&highlight=aiming+system&page=4#ixzz0q8vKlwSE
TSF - TheSnookerForum.com
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Well you mention using "patterns" that is a system not sporadic. It is you system.:wink:
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Not,systems are repetitive,patterns are not,no two breaks are identicle,therefore you must learn to play the patterns,or lose.;)
I used to watch Gary Speath bank balls on a snooker table 3 or 4 rails,he never used a system to bank just warp speed,not many liked it against him!
 
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crawfish said:
Anyone agree? I mean, find me four outta the top fifty that will swear they use the "Whatever System" and tell me about it in detail, and I'll retract the "crap" part of it.

Maybe it's worth a listen if:

1. We're not human
2. We're robotic in mannerisms.
3. You can program the mind (or central data system if we are robotic) to disregard human emotion.
4. There is no emotion, adrenaline, or ego.
5. Take away the poolroom atmosphere and distractions.


6. Oh, hell. I could go on. I'll just mention this. "IF WE'RE IN A VACUUM, AND THE PERSON PERFORMING SAID SYSTEM IS PERFECT AND UNFLAWED IN ANY WAY."

Come on guys. There is NO SHORTCUTS. Practice WHAT WORKS BEST FOR YOU. NO TWO HUMANS ARE ALIKE. Look at McCready's stroke. System? Yeah, maybe for him. But, can you emulate this? Probably not. Wish to fu#$ I could.

Guarantee you if you asked 75% or more of the great players about a "system" and they'll chuckle to themselves. They might not make someone feel uncomfortable about asking, but they are chuckling. I've heard it. Three top (and I mean top) laughing about a fella asking about this CTE stuff.

AGAIN. THERE IS NO SHORTCUT. You play constantly under pressure with what works best for you, then play great players constantly, and hang out with good players and watch, then play, practice, and play more. Absolutely no shaft, glove, taper, tip, etc. etc. will make you Johnny.

Mad at me or not over this, I'm telling you what most of the good players would tell you. Like it or not, 97% would do anything to be like the other 3%. Anything. And some could be locked in a room with Johnny for a decade and come out nowhere his speed. Some will NEVER GET IT. But, I personally don't believe in gimmicks. If this stuff works for you, great. Use it. Mentally use anything that works for you in a positive manner. But, when it's 8-8 in a race to nine for the cash, I hope you're not relying on a gimmick to get you there.
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Here are 2 different Aiming systems being used.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCkSugWiTnk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ETgfOMqlsk



There are short cuts in the game just because you dont know them dosnt mean they dont exist.
Also every system you do learn will take alot of practice,its not like your going to pocket everything instantly.
But you might .
 
8pack said:
Here are 2 different Aiming systems being used.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCkSugWiTnk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ETgfOMqlsk



There are short cuts in the game just because you dont know them dosnt mean they dont exist.
Also every system you do learn will take alot of practice,its not like your going to pocket everything instantly.
But you might .
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First, could you guys put this stuff in another thread?

Second, if you'll call a "system" a "routine" I won't be so hard on the routines. The semantics here make "system" have the connotation of some sort of guru sitting on top of a "pool mountain" meditating and teaching Efren the ways of pool.

Third, who the fu#$ are you to talk about "just because you don't know them"? Dude, I'd be willing to bet that you at least need the seven and I've never seen you hit a ball. I've ran around and gambled and played top notch players for over twenty years. And "NO" , I'm not one that will say, "Oh, I used to...." Although I don't play as much, sir, you have action any time. And I will come to you. Come to think of it, you have all this knowledge and came onto this thread about them being called "systems" and me tired of hearing about it, and again give me videos to watch? WOW. My "routine" may not be as good as yours, but in the words of Doc Holliday, "Just say when." Simple? You may PM me with the details. Now, remember I'm not able to comprehend some things, so make it clear please.
 
crawfish said:
First, could you guys put this stuff in another thread?

Second, if you'll call a "system" a "routine" I won't be so hard on the routines. The semantics here make "system" have the connotation of some sort of guru sitting on top of a "pool mountain" meditating and teaching Efren the ways of pool.

Third, who the fu#$ are you to talk about "just because you don't know them"? Dude, I'd be willing to bet that you at least need the seven and I've never seen you hit a ball. I've ran around and gambled and played top notch players for over twenty years. And "NO" , I'm not one that will say, "Oh, I used to...." Although I don't play as much, sir, you have action any time. And I will come to you. Come to think of it, you have all this knowledge and came onto this thread about them being called "systems" and me tired of hearing about it, and again give me videos to watch? WOW. My "routine" may not be as good as yours, but in the words of Doc Holliday, "Just say when." Simple? You may PM me with the details. Now, remember I'm not able to comprehend some things, so make it clear please.
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Who put sugar in your eggs sunshine.

P.S. I'd like to bet with you in case a game randomly occurs. I like to collect free money. I'm trying to wall paper my entire house in C-Notes!
 
crawfish said:
First, could you guys put this stuff in another thread?

Second, if you'll call a "system" a "routine" I won't be so hard on the routines. The semantics here make "system" have the connotation of some sort of guru sitting on top of a "pool mountain" meditating and teaching Efren the ways of pool.

Third, who the fu#$ are you to talk about "just because you don't know them"? Dude, I'd be willing to bet that you at least need the seven and I've never seen you hit a ball. I've ran around and gambled and played top notch players for over twenty years. And "NO" , I'm not one that will say, "Oh, I used to...." Although I don't play as much, sir, you have action any time. And I will come to you. Come to think of it, you have all this knowledge and came onto this thread about them being called "systems" and me tired of hearing about it, and again give me videos to watch? WOW. My "routine" may not be as good as yours, but in the words of Doc Holliday, "Just say when." Simple? You may PM me with the details. Now, remember I'm not able to comprehend some things, so make it clear please.
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Im nobody,.....i dont wont the 7 just give me anyball and the break on the barbox and i will play you.And you come to me.
Heck from the way you talk and all the top notch players you have played
i should be a walk in the park.
I will play you 100 dollar sets,,, i will put up a thousand for you 2 win champ...
 
8pack said:
Im nobody,.....i dont wont the 7 just give me anyball and the break on the barbox and i will play you.And you come to me.
Heck from the way you talk and all the top notch players you have played
i should be a walk in the park.
I will play you 100 dollar sets,,, i will put up a thousand for you 2 win champ...
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Geez, anyball and the break on a barbox, you are too strong!
 
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