This is why I don't like to play for money!!! ...

8onthebreak said:
I agree 100%
... If I had known that the match would run til 1am, for sure, I figured that we'd mutually extend it anyway if we both wanted to extend...apparently this gamblers code thing, I will need to specify 1 set only before each set, to give myself freedom to walk out when I don't want to play pool anymore:grin-square:
Click to expand...

Just as far as you understand by stating you are only playing one set you are giving your opponent the freedom to walk away after the first set as well, win or lose.

If you say "only have time for one set, gotta work tomorrow" and the guy you are playing ends up getting lucky and beating you while making it apparent he is a weaker player he now has the right to walk away with your money because you called for only one set.

Generally speaking unless players specify a certain number of matches or state they need to leave by X time it is the person who is loosing that has the call to quit and pay the money they owe. You can state "I only have time for one match then I gotta go" but that does not give YOU the sole ability to now dictate how many matches you want to play, it gives both players the ability to pull up after the first match.
 
It's proven how visual impressions effect public opinion and people still insist on d

Island Drive said:
Was always nice seeing good players like Liscotti, Rempe, Sigel, Varner....dressed up 24/7 pretty much. Makes everyone around ya happier, and it definitely can intimidate some players for a free game.
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Yes, I remember the great bar table tournaments they had in Clinton Iowa and those guys were dressed like movie stars.

We believe if Jackie Gleason and Paul Newman would have wore jeans and tee shirts the great pool boom would never have happened. It's proven how visual impressions effect public opinion and people still insist on dressing "down" to represent pool.

They don't "real eyes" how much damage it's done over the years, Rempe, Sigel, Hopkins, Miz, and Varner would never have done that in their "era". 'The Game is a patient Teacher'
 
Fatboy said:
i would like to think Neil is including me in that "Us" dept. people who have been in action, small and big for years. I aint no CJ winning millions or a world beater, but the same principles apply 90% of the time.

I'd bet a good chunk that Neil and CJ who I know dont get along would agree on gambling ethics. They might want to shoot each other over aiming systems and God knows what else, but limited to gambling they are on the same sheet of paper. I'd bet on that.
Click to expand...

I agree with you about this whole situation 110%. See my earlier posts. No offense, but I usually don't agree with you and in my opinion, aint nothing wrong with that. We are a rare breed it seems. The whole concept of this not quitting winner deal eludes a lot of people. I guess you just have to be on both ends of the situation before you understand. If you're just up front, no harm no foul.

Not quitting winner benefits you in the long run. You will win a lot of money and have a helluva rep in the mean time. If you plan on gambling at pool, even recreationally, you need to adopt the unwritten rules. There are two groups of people in the pool world: pool players and people who play pool. There's nothing wrong with being in either group. If you're going to be a pool player, you need to learn to behave like one.
 
Woof Biscuit said:
There are two groups of people in the pool world: pool players and people who play pool. There's nothing wrong with being in either group. If you're going to be a pool player, you need to learn to behave like one.
Click to expand...

sorry, but this made me chuckle....behaving like a pool player is a GOOD thing?! :p
 
Math83 said:
Look man you stated yourself you didn't get to the pool hall until 11pm. Second, you practiced breaking with you break tool for at least a half hour. Third, you played at least 4 games of practice before I even came over an asked if you wanted to play. Then when you did say you would play, you said you wante to practice 2 more games before we started. Which actually turned into 4 more games. That has to take at least an hour. Probably longer. So having said all that, if you got to the pool hall at 11 pm(which seems normal for people that have to work at 8 am.) and do all that before you agreed to play then how could we possibly start before 12:15 possibly even 12:30. The set was over at 1. As you stated yourself. I don't know why you still want to argue. You WON. You got my $50, all hail the god of pool. He played at 30% and still beat me down. And I won't be able to eat tomorrow.

Look man I tried to be nice about all this and even that night you started crap with me by boasting about how much money you make. Yet you still want get on here and complain about winning. If you don't want to gamble then don't gamble. People like you make gambling less fun anyway. I mean you learn a couple of pool terms and buy expensive cues and that makes you some type of expert that knows when they only play 30% of there game. Whatever man. Enjoy the $50, could have won 4k but you won't get another shot at that.

As far as J Bird goes we tried to donate some money to him that night and he went home. No chance I can beat JBird but You my friend are no JBird. And you had the nerve to call my friends and I assholes because you acted like a complete douche.
Click to expand...

That's right, I did win.
Thanks for the compliment with the cues and pool terms.
So the one point that you are so desperately arguing is that we played 7 games full of safeties in 30 minutes??? Of bar box 8ball??? Ok...where we going with this?
4k...??? Really? Come on dude, use a number that people will believe.
And as far as having to be an expert to know when he's playing bad...yeah, that's me. Call me that guy that's smart enough to know when he's playing bad...if you have to be an expert to know that...??? REALLY???

I never once complained about winning...that part felt good, even playing poorly, although admittedly I wasn't enjoying having to employ so much defense in substitution of running out. Whatever it takes though I guess.

And you're right, J-bird you are not, but then, neither am I.

Bashing South Carolina action when u can't hold a candle to a local in the same pool hall seems silly. (J-bird) REALLY? No action in SC???
I'm sure he'd give you all the action you wanted...can I set you and him up...to play for that 4k you Bragg about...I'll invest in that match:cool:
As a matter of fact, I could put ten local boys up, home grown Myrtle Beach boys, and you wouldn't beat 2 of the 10...there are some fantastic players here...in SC, ...IN MB !!! And they'll all play you for whatever.
I just don't understand it. GO SOUTH CAROLINA !!!
If you hate it here and the action sucks...stop coming!!! Easy.

Why are you arguing this thing so much?
I don't play for money.
Don't know all the etiquette of pool gambling.
Didn't try to piss you off...just wanted to get sleep for work and stop playing pool...think we've established that 50 bucks wouldn't get my attention for a night. So running off with someone's 50 bucks seems like a silly inference for anyone to draw.
I would put work before pool again, but I'd communicate better next time I played for money, that's on me. Learned that lesson.

Happy playing. We'll play again, let me know when you're in town next, I'll bring a roll, and we'll start earlier. Thursdays are my day to play. Work it out. Above all this, I still think you're a decent guy.

I've received some really good advice on this forum...from a lot of people way smarter than me. Even a lot in this thread.

Here's some advice for you, if someone quits you, but shakes your hand and says nice match, or whatever, and they're sincere, and good sport all the way through the set, let them go...WTF???
Don't play them again if you don't want to. Why make a big deal out of them ending a session? Life's too short. You leave that person with no choice but to defend their rationale of leaving...ie, job, 1am, explaining income to convince you that 50$ is irrelevant, etc. how bout this...I have a job...don't wanna play anymore...I'm done. Leave it at that.
just let them go.
Just my .02
 
THis makes perfect sense.

Celtic said:
Just as far as you understand by stating you are only playing one set you are giving your opponent the freedom to walk away after the first set as well, win or lose.

If you say "only have time for one set, gotta work tomorrow" and the guy you are playing ends up getting lucky and beating you while making it apparent he is a weaker player he now has the right to walk away with your money because you called for only one set.

Generally speaking unless players specify a certain number of matches or state they need to leave by X time it is the person who is loosing that has the call to quit and pay the money they owe. You can state "I only have time for one match then I gotta go" but that does not give YOU the sole ability to now dictate how many matches you want to play, it gives both players the ability to pull up after the first match.
Click to expand...

Good point, and yes, I'd expect that BOTH players would have to mutually agree to extend the sets. That makes perfect sense to me.
 
If your playing a guy for 50 bucks, win one set and quit without any stipulations as to how many sets you would play, tell the guy keep the money and agree to play another time with the ground work laid out. If the guy gets out of line take the money and burn it in front of him to show him that its not about the money. Case closed. Arguing over 50 dollars is ridiculous. Arguing over principle is another.
 
Yes I sounded like a poor loser in my last post. I was being sarcastic. But I understand that is hard to tell when reading what someone has written. The guy went off on this long rant calling my friends and I names and acting as if we were upset the night that he quit. I really am not sure why I feel the need to defend myself to anyone as I am not suppose to care what other people think but this guy is just lying. If that's what he has to tell himself to feel better then so be it. I am done with this. If you knew anything about the way gambling worked and use to be in sc you would agree there is no action in this state. People only want to play locks. Not gamble.
 
I don't know either of these guys but I know truth from lies and it is obvious to me where the truth is in this case.

It is amazing to me that someone would go out of there way to fabricate a story for the sole purpose but to garner sympathy from a group of people he doesn't even know. This is really sad.:frown::frown::frown:

I had thought that this person had seen the light and understood but his previous post to Mr. Math showed me he still doesn't get it and is trying to cover his ass.

Oh well, I'm done. Some people will never learn.

Tom
 
8onthebreak said:
That's right, I did win.
Thanks for the compliment with the cues and pool terms.
So the one point that you are so desperately arguing is that we played 7 games full of safeties in 30 minutes??? Of bar box 8ball??? Ok...where we going with this?
4k...??? Really? Come on dude, use a number that people will believe.
And as far as having to be an expert to know when he's playing bad...yeah, that's me. Call me that guy that's smart enough to know when he's playing bad...if you have to be an expert to know that...??? REALLY???

I never once complained about winning...that part felt good, even playing poorly, although admittedly I wasn't enjoying having to employ so much defense in substitution of running out. Whatever it takes though I guess.

And you're right, J-bird you are not, but then, neither am I.

Bashing South Carolina action when u can't hold a candle to a local in the same pool hall seems silly. (J-bird) REALLY? No action in SC???
I'm sure he'd give you all the action you wanted...can I set you and him up...to play for that 4k you Bragg about...I'll invest in that match:cool:
As a matter of fact, I could put ten local boys up, home grown Myrtle Beach boys, and you wouldn't beat 2 of the 10...there are some fantastic players here...in SC, ...IN MB !!! And they'll all play you for whatever.
I just don't understand it. GO SOUTH CAROLINA !!!
If you hate it here and the action sucks...stop coming!!! Easy.

Why are you arguing this thing so much?
I don't play for money.
Don't know all the etiquette of pool gambling.
Didn't try to piss you off...just wanted to get sleep for work and stop playing pool...think we've established that 50 bucks wouldn't get my attention for a night. So running off with someone's 50 bucks seems like a silly inference for anyone to draw.
I would put work before pool again, but I'd communicate better next time I played for money, that's on me. Learned that lesson.

Happy playing. We'll play again, let me know when you're in town next, I'll bring a roll, and we'll start earlier. Thursdays are my day to play. Work it out. Above all this, I still think you're a decent guy.

I've received some really good advice on this forum...from a lot of people way smarter than me. Even a lot in this thread.

Here's some advice for you, if someone quits you, but shakes your hand and says nice match, or whatever, and they're sincere, and good sport all the way through the set, let them go...WTF???
Don't play them again if you don't want to. Why make a big deal out of them ending a session? Life's too short. You leave that person with no choice but to defend their rationale of leaving...ie, job, 1am, explaining income to convince you that 50$ is irrelevant, etc. how bout this...I have a job...don't wanna play anymore...I'm done. Leave it at that.
just let them go.
Just my .02
Click to expand...

My mistake post 225
 
Lmfao

TRWpool said:
My mistake post 225
Click to expand...

You seem to be making a lot of mistakes...???
Yeah, cover my?
And for what?
What I care what YOU THINK???
Ummm...not really seeing too many inconsistencies in either of our stories.
Started late set.
Finished at 1am.
I quit.
He questioned my quitting.
I explained?
Lies???
What's your vested interest...I just figured it out...you're one of the buddies. That's why you are not interested in letting this die down. Cute.
What now???
 
two sides of the same coin

Fatboy said:
i would like to think Neil is including me in that "Us" dept. people who have been in action, small and big for years. I aint no CJ winning millions or a world beater, but the same principles apply 90% of the time.

I'd bet a good chunk that Neil and CJ who I know dont get along would agree on gambling ethics. They might want to shoot each other over aiming systems and God knows what else, but limited to gambling they are on the same sheet of paper. I'd bet on that.
Click to expand...

We're just two sides of the same coin. ;)

halfdollar.jpg
 
Nice try but no, I am not one of his buddies. I have never met the man just like I have never met you.

Quite honestly I don't know why I've taken such an interest in your thread. I don't know you or the other guy from anyone. I think at first I just wanted to defend the concept of gambling at pool and maybe help explain some of the etiquette pool players expect of one another. Somehow it morphed into something else. Certainly there are a lot of low life players out there but take a quick look at guys like Bernie Madoff. There are bad eggs everywhere, not just the pool rooms.

I see pool as a perfect medium for gambling and vice versa. Pool offers an opportunity for someone to pit there skills, inteligence, heart, and stamina, under sometimes extreme pressure. The true nature of an individual can be exposed during and after a game of pool when there is enough money on line. Without risk, typically a financial risk, there is little motivational incentive to perform at ones highest level. It becomes very easy to blow it off when we fail to rise to the occasion when there isn't a true personal cost to failure. On the other hand the exhilaration achieved by successfully overcoming the pressure of the moment is something which can last a lifetime. That is why it is sometimes worth putting up with guys who just don't understand this concept.

Pool players I guess are a rare breed. We like to pit our skills against others with the same mentality. It is like the fastest gun idea from the old west movies. When I was a young guy I wanted to play every top player out there. I played the weak player to finance my playing the stronger players. This way I was able to improve my game and still hold on to my bank account. My bankroll didn't allow me to play at very high stakes with the most elite players but I didn't mind taking the worst of either if I thought I could learn from the experience. I don't see much of that attitude anymore. Everyone seems to be afraid they will be called a sucker if they get in a game where they have the worst of it.

This is why when you chose to blame gambling on your failure to have a good time playing the other night I decided to champion the cause. I have gambled at pool from the first moment I picked up a pool cue. I was about fifteen years old and had no idea what end of the cue to hold. I was hard pressed to make a ball hit the floor but I learned just the same. In the rooms I grew up in if you wanted to learn how to play you were forced to gamble at least a little. There were no instructors to learn from. It was a mortal sin amongst the good player to be caught teaching.

I understand times have changed. I've changed with those times. Now that I am retired from the "real" job I teach pool. I love to educate people who have a love for the game and I will try to protect it as best I can but I still adhere to the principle that pressure is a privilege.

Anyway, I hope that answers you question. If not, than you are hopeless and should stay away from gambling, buy a table for your home and play pool with your wife and kids.

Tom
 
TRWpool said:
Nice try but no, I am not one of his buddies. I have never met the man just like I have never met you.

Quite honestly I don't know why I've taken such an interest in your thread. I don't know you or the other guy from anyone. I think at first I just wanted to defend the concept of gambling at pool and maybe help explain some of the etiquette pool players expect of one another. Somehow it morphed into something else. Certainly there are a lot of low life players out there but take a quick look at guys like Bernie Madoff. There are bad eggs everywhere, not just the pool rooms.

I see pool as a perfect medium for gambling and vice versa. Pool offers an opportunity for someone to pit there skills, inteligence, heart, and stamina, under sometimes extreme pressure. The true nature of an individual can be exposed during and after a game of pool when there is enough money on line. Without risk, typically a financial risk, there is little motivational incentive to perform at ones highest level. It becomes very easy to blow it off when we fail to rise to the occasion when there isn't a true personal cost to failure. On the other hand the exhilaration achieved by successfully overcoming the pressure of the moment is something which can last a lifetime. That is why it is sometimes worth putting up with guys who just don't understand this concept.

Pool players I guess are a rare breed. We like to pit our skills against others with the same mentality. It is like the fastest gun idea from the old west movies. When I was a young guy I wanted to play every top player out there. I played the weak player to finance my playing the stronger players. This way I was able to improve my game and still hold on to my bank account. My bankroll didn't allow me to play at very high stakes with the most elite players but I didn't mind taking the worst of either if I thought I could learn from the experience. I don't see much of that attitude anymore. Everyone seems to be afraid they will be called a sucker if they get in a game where they have the worst of it.

This is why when you chose to blame gambling on your failure to have a good time playing the other night I decided to champion the cause. I have gambled at pool from the first moment I picked up a pool cue. I was about fifteen years old and had no idea what end of the cue to hold. I was hard pressed to make a ball hit the floor but I learned just the same. In the rooms I grew up in if you wanted to learn how to play you were forced to gamble at least a little. There were no instructors to learn from. It was a mortal sin amongst the good player to be caught teaching.

I understand times have changed. I've changed with those times. Now that I am retired from the "real" job I teach pool. I love to educate people who have a love for the game and I will try to protect it as best I can but I still adhere to the principle that pressure is a privilege.

Anyway, I hope that answers you question. If not, than you are hopeless and should stay away from gambling, buy a table for your home and play pool with your wife and kids.

Tom
Click to expand...

Great post, Tom. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

I like the way you explained everything, and I think I'm on the right track. I'm not there yet, but I will keep trying.

I've been mostly beat up in matches lately, but I'm accepting that and trying to find out how much heart I have. I know it's in there somewhere. I just have to find it.

Thanks again.

-Blake
 
Just fyi

8onthebreak said:
Thanks for all the insight guys, I'm trying to see he point of view where I gotta tell him up front how many sets were gonna have time for.

Here's the problem...
If the set had gone smoothly, and I was playing my normal speed, I would have 5-0''d him in a very short time and I would have played another set.
I was playing very non confidently, playing a lot of safes and the match drug on until late. I also was embarrassed at how I was playing, and not really having any fun. Even though I was winning, I knew I wasn't playing at my speed, and that was making me sick...so it was after e match when he asked to play another, I was not enjoying him, the match, and I also looked at my watch...Holy crap! It's 1 am...I'm done-thx for the games.

We agreed on ONE SET...is it assumed that you're playing UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE when you agree to ONE SET????????

Playing for the next days work wages was not an option, I'm not bill gates, but I make a lot more in a day than I'll ever find in this kids pocket, and for like reason, it's not the sort of job I can just be sick...if I'm sick 1 day, it would cause MAJOR MAJOR issues at work.

A week ago, I played A guy sets for 100... Won some, lost some. I walked out and handed him his 200...said same thing, thx for the games. I really enjoyed it. He didn't complain that it was late and I had to be to work early.

Only thing I can think that would have helped me is I should have played him one last game for the 50$ as suggested by many of you. Maybe that would have helped him not feel taken advantage of.
Click to expand...


That "kid" had at least $4,000 in his pocket. And you were quite the smart ass with him after the set which is the true reason you got so much flack from the peanut gallery. If you didn't have so many degrading and smart ass comments to say after the match then none of us would have said anything. We would have been shocked that you quit since you were clearly robbing him but could have seen your point of view about work had you not been such an asshat.

Btw yes it was a race for $50 but you chose that amount, the "kid" asked you to play for 50, 100 or whatever and you chose $50.

Sincerely,
Peanut gallery member #1
 
Well put sir

TRWpool said:
Congratulation!
In the span of an hour and a half you managed to alienate a guy who basicly wanted to give you money to do something you love to do; play pool. Not only that but you now have suceeded in developing a reputation both there at the room and here as well for being one of those guys who are so quick to pull up from a bet. All for $50.00 lousy bucks.

Let's go over it for a moment: You walk in after 11pm knowing before hand you can't stay long but do you tell that to the guy who approaches you to play? No. How long do you think a race to 5 is going to take? He wants more but now you, after you beat him have to start woofing at him that he can't play, and you tell him how much BETTER YOU ARE THAN HE IS. And now you wonder why he gets mad about your quitting? Maybe he's been drinking a bit too. You didn't say anything about that, but he is one of these corp. guys right? He's out with his buddies trying to have a good time so the chances are he's had a few and he's lit up a bit.

So here you are getting involved in a late night game, say nothing about how long you can play, and now you're upset with him and his friends and complaining to us about how lousy gambling is because you run into guys like this.

Sounds to me like you acted pretty nitty and still haven't learned anything from it. My advice to you and those who agree with your actions that night would be to stay away from gambling at pool until you learn a better bed side manner. Next time you may have more than a verbal argument on your hands.

Tom
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Though I will say it would never become a fight with this guy or any of us(I was part of the "peanut gallery". We didn't care that much. But this guy was a complete asshat after the set and unquestionably a nit.
 
Ok enough BS

You two need to lock up at least $500 and play this out. How about 2 out of 3 sets for all the cash?

Otherwise all this bickering is boring and going nowhere. BTW if you have the best of a matchup the last thing you should be doing is telling the opponent. I assume either player could win so ...FLIP IT UP!
 
TRWpool said:
I read fine Mr. Lunch Money,
Maybe you should reread your own initial post. When did you ever say in your thread that you agreed to play "A SET" Answer: NEVER. That's when. Maybe the guy you were playing didn't hear you very well. Was that it? If as you say you agreed to play "A SET" then why did you have to say anything more? You would have simply told him that you had agreed to play ONE SET. Done, finished, going home, thanks for the game. Instead you tell him all about having to go to work in the morning and that it's to late to play any more. YOu tell us the same thing. If you agreed to play "A SET" you wouldn't have had to say any of that. You are simply digging yourself a hole. Just admit it. You acted like a jerk. Just say you will learn from it and try to do better the next time.

You were not held hostage. You quit. You are allowed to quit. That didn't make what you did right. You acted like a nit and that's OK you are allowed to be a Nit. The question is; Do you want to stay a Nit or grow out of it? Why do you insist on making lame excuses for yourself?

To answer your question, not that it is any of your business or that it has any bearing on this topic. I am now retired from a career in retail sales. And to make it clear, if I started a money game with someone late at night knowing that I needed my beauty sleep to function early the next morning like you, I wouldn't have gotten involved in the first place or at the minimum I would have made it clear to my opponent how long I can play. It is called common decency.

I answered your question now you can answer mine. You said in your original post that you felt like throwing the $50 back at him, but you didn't. Why not give him a shot at his cheese by offering to play him one game or a 2 out of 3 set for it and get it over with? You didn't do that either did you?

Still playing the victim? :frown:
Click to expand...

The original poster makes it out to seem like this set took forever too, from coin-toss to completion took 35 minutes.
 
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