This layout shows up quite often for me, what would you do?

Neil... Touche! I guess I was assuming the situation was a good player versus another good player.

I don't know though.. You really think a pro would shoot at this bank, if they somehow got put in this situation?

No doubt, the original poster needs to concentrate on improving his position..

But would you shoot at this 8 ball? If so, what percentage would you put on the bank? And if you shot at this ball, would you play a safe bank, like my first suggestion? That's what Buddy hall shoots here, so I figured it can't be that bad. A D player isn't gonna win enough games for it really to matter if he makes this bank, lol..

Russ
 
I can't do the diagram thingy, but in the RARE occasion that I leave myself in that position, I would cut the 8 ball in the upper left hand corner with low low right, rail first. Not possible you say?? lol Not an easy one for sure, but I can make that shot 30% of the time and if I miss, 30% of the time, the 8 kicks out 2 rails back to where it sits now and the cue ball lans back down table. And, of course, the other 40% of the time, I LOSE !!!

Russ.......
 
isn't there another option when ball is froze on rail. I played this shot in a weekly tournament and according to the BCA rules it was legal. I played full ball with lots of top...the balls kissed and the 8 bounced out a little from rail the cue ball with the top came back in and struck the 8 again making it hit the rail sending the cue ball down table. I think the rules say...1. the cue ball has to hit a rail 2. object ball has to hit a different rail or can hit a ball and go back to same rail. Anyone know if this is correct?
 
Tough luck...

8-Ball Player

Tough situation...I'm not surprised to know that your opponent 'goes on to win the match'...

You say it 'shows up quite often'...sounds like sometimes you are the one who puts things in this position...maybe better position play would eliminate some of those 'quite oftens'...

Since you've been losing most of these...I suggest you take a pop at it and try to make it...and be a bit safe at the same time...

The shot looks like it can go cross corner...in the upper right in this diagram...hit it fairly low...just a bit inside...hard enough to bank it...the cue ball should travel somewhere near an easy and close shot on the 9-ball...and if you miss the upper right corner...you might make the 8-ball in the upper left corner...you should at least leave a long difficult shot for your opponent...

You might surprise yourself by actually getting good at making this type of shot...good luck...

Mike
 
8-Ball Player said:
This is a game of 9-ball, I run until this point and then I usually miss or scratch, and my opponent goes on to win the game. What do you do here, is this shot possible?
Click to expand...
Don't shot a flyer bank shot, and don't even think about the double kiss safety (IMO)!

If you are playing (practicing) to win, play this shot as if you are cutting the 8 ball back towards the far pocket - play rail first. Don't hit it hard enough to make the 8 - you'll run the 8 along the bottom rail, and the cue ball will end up safe at the other end of the table. Shoot with a little more spin to try to get safe behind the 9. (I almost made the 9, lol)

Here is a quick video I made showing what I think is the highest percentage way to play this to win.

It looks something like this.

CueTable Help



Or this:

CueTable Help



Practice this reply to safety and you'll get out of a lot of trouble spots. Good luck!

-td
 
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Russ Chewning said:

CueTable Help



Yeah, yeah.... I know it looks nutty.. Might be worth practicing for 20-30 minutes though, just in CASE it comes up in a game. It's a three rail bank in the side, which, if it misses, has a decent chance to get safe.

This particular angle probably isn't "on" for either the cue ball path or the OB path, depending on the weather in your area. I think Buddy Hall suggested something like this. You can even hit this one "bad" and bank it right in the closest side.. :D I normally check my cue ball paths on these diagrams to see if the path is workable. This one I don't think will follow this "exact" path, (i.e. I don't think the 8 ball angle from rail 1 to rail 2 is right..) but it's just the general idea I am trying to put forth.

These sorts of problems are why 9 ball players should also consider buying 3-Cushion DVDs from Accu-Stats.. :D

(Be warned: There may be a kiss out where the ball paths interesct by the 9..)

Russ
Click to expand...

Actually, Russ is right on with this shot. It isn't a real high percentage shot, but it's a very common "Golf" shot for the 3, 6, and 9 holes. Get good enough at it and it'll make you some dough.

Good hittin'
 
Here's the silly 'creative artsy type' solution:
kick the f*ker right in.

Given a situation where both a safety and a shot are equally difficult, I'd rather give myself a chance to win (with some chance of getting a safe roll like the one diagrammed) than play a shot where you definitely can't win and you might lose. If you're gonna sell out, go down firing.

twowaykick.jpg
 
The shot I like here is one I got off of one of Grady's tapes I think. Is especially easy in this circumstance where you are directly in line with the 8 ball

Hit the 8 perfectly square, medium speed with draw. CB will double kiss and the low spin brings it straight back down the table to the opposite end rail. The 8 stays right where it is. Even if the 8 is frozen, the shot is legal because of the CB contact at the other end cushion.

If you practice this you will be surprised at how easy you need to hit the CB to accomplish the shot.
 
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my thoughts exactly...

VonRhett said:
Perhaps this is too pragmatic, but I would focus on how you end up in such bad position and how to avoid it, before i practiced these big recovery shots.

In other words, there's a slew of options available when you're in this position, but most of them require precise ball control, razor thin aiming and perfect speed control. Of course, those same skills would also prevent you from being in this position most of the time....

-von
Click to expand...
If I knew I was "always" winding up out of position for my shot I would be more concerned with improving my table reads and / or my position play in order to not be in this spot ! rather than how to get out of it :eek:
 
Oh, Bval! You just outed a big secret! Yes, the double-kiss safety is a very useful shot in many situations and is often overlooked or just not known by many people....

A little practice can make a guy extremely adept at this shot. The great thing is that your opponent thinks you are just getting lucky or shooting like crap.... Beautiful, Man! Just beautiful!

And just a hint...the double-kiss safety is even more useful in 8-ball....

Bval: Please hold back SOME secrets!
 
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td873 said:
Don't shot a flyer bank shot, and don't even think about the double kiss safety (IMO)!

If you are playing (practicing) to win, play this shot as if you are cutting the 8 ball back towards the far pocket - play rail first. Don't hit it hard enough to make the 8 - you'll run the 8 along the bottom rail, and the cue ball will end up safe at the other end of the table. Shoot with a little more spin to try to get safe behind the 9. (I almost made the 9, lol)

Here is a quick video I made showing what I think is the highest percentage way to play this to win.

It looks something like this.

CueTable Help



Or this:

CueTable Help



Practice this reply to safety and you'll get out of a lot of trouble spots. Good luck!

-td
Click to expand...

Geez man thanks a ton, you even went to the extent of making a movie for me, man Im impressed. What gets me is how you made a good safety 3 out of 3 times! Thats pretty dang good. Im going to go practice that right now, thanks again.

And thanks to everyone else for posting.
 
My $.02

I agree with those who said "don't get in this position," since whatever you do from here you are not a favorite to win this rack unless you pull off a very impressive and/or lucky shot.

However, other posters who have said that just stopped there, without really being constructive. Before you shot the 7 in this rack, you must have chosen a positional "target" for the 8. If you didn't, that's your first mistake, and you need to change your routine so before every shot you have a target in mind for where the CB's going. If you did, then you clearly missed it.

But you're going to miss position often; everyone does. So choose a target where if you miss by a foot or two, you don't end up in a position (like this one) where you're absolutely screwed. This may mean that your target, if you hit it dead on, will not leave you very good position. That's okay, as long as you're minimizing the chance of leaving yourself like this (i.e. screwed).

For instance, on this shot, you may have been playing for an angle on the 8, but you don't really need one. You're still a favorite to win this game if you're frozen to the rail dead straight on the 8. Or, you may have been trying to get closer to the 8 instead of leaving the CB on the long rail with a longer cut on the 8. But even above the side pocket on the long rail by the 9, you have a good shot to win this game.

Keep that in mind next time you're playing iffy position. Go for the "can't miss" position, even if it won't leave you perfect.

-Andrew
 
Disclaimer, I didn't read everyones comments to this point...

Yes, you have options....

#1, you can bank the 8 just passed the 9 in the corner pocket, but it's a little more difficult if the ball is frozen....since the 9 makes the pocket bigger, you can error to the side of the rail...

#2, you can bank the cue to the rail, going for the 8 in the top left corner....I'm not a huge fan of this shot, but some people seem to have a skill for this shot....

#3, play safe....barely kiss the 8 on the right side, play to go 2 rails and behind the 9.....

Ultimately, if you are getting this layout alot, your position play is falling apart on the 7 ball.....that is the real issue and where you should put in your time....I'd set up the 8 and 9 as you have on your table, then put the 7 and cue in different positions and work on your leave....my two cents.....

good luck...
 
I'm the lone ranger

I guess I'm solo here, but playing offense here is just not advisable.

High right spin off of the right side of the eight ball, thin the ball leaving it on the endrail (or near it), and just focus on getting the cueball 3 rails behind the 9. Even if you miss the hook it is a brutal leave if the 8 ball stays near the end rail, but I will usually accept letting the 8 creep out if I feel confident about the hook.

Lastly, if the 8 sneaks over to the side rail and you miss the hook, you still left a long tough shot off of the end rail with appropriate speed.

Situations like this come up all of the time, and a slight ball change could greatly affect the percentages.

The best thing to do is learn ALL OF THE SHOTS mentioned (double kisses, four rail safety/side pocket attempts, rail firsts, long banks, etc.). Once you know when and how they work you will be able to best spot the correct percentage in a game.
 
In retrospect I like td873's shot, I missed it. It seems very do-able even for an average player with little risk of selling out.

Don't like tin-man's shot because with the 8 frozen to the rail, even a thin hit is going to make it leap up off that rail a couple of feet, especially if you're hitting firmly enough to try to duck under the 9.

I think against a stronger player, if the match is worth a lot, I like td's shot. Against a weaker player I like kicking it in and counting on a happy roll if I miss.
 
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