Thorsten vs. Schmidt 14.1 only - or all around

[Palmerfan]

Thorsten is considered the best straight pool player in the world, when not playing tournaments he is practicing 14.1 and doing drills for all games constantly. Schmidt rarely practices 14.1 and goes long periods of time without playing any type of pool at all yet is still thought of as a notch below Thorsten in straight pool. And Schmidt has recently beaten him in a 14.1 Final I just saw on Youtube.

If a challenge match for good $ was arranged 3 months in advance and both players put all their free time in preparation for the event...and it was a race to 500, is Thorsten still the favorite or is it Pick em?

And if 1 Pocket and 10 Ball are added do the odds change?(For those who don't care, don't feel the need to respond).

 

[StraightPoolIU]

Thorsten would probably be the favorite in everything but the one pocket. But I don't think any such match is in the works.

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[sjm]

Thorsten would probably be the favorite in everything but the one pocket. But I don't think any such match is in the works.

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Exactly right. John is the favorite in one pocket, but a clear underdog in every rotation game and also in 14.1.

Last major competitive match they had in 14.1 was at the Dragon World 14.1 event in August. If memory serves, it was Hohmann 200 Schmidt 18 in the event semifinals.

 

[Palmerfan]

Exactly right. John is the favorite in one pocket, but a clear underdog in every rotation game and also in 14.1.

Last major competitive match they had in 14.1 was at the Dragon World 14.1 event in August. If memory serves, it was Hohmann 200 Schmidt 18 in the event semifinals.

Yes but the year before Schmidt beat Hohmann 150-21 At Maryland 14.1...similar field. John is the favorite in 1 Pocket and the underdog in rotation...but both at there best I don't know the favorite in 14.1

 

[sparkle84]

Exactly right. John is the favorite in one pocket, but a clear underdog in every rotation game and also in 14.1.

Heavy underdog in rotation. If John was in top form I wouldn't consider him an underdog against anyone in 14.1. In that particular match up however the outcome probably wouldn't be determined so much by playing ability as it would by heart or will to win. Not that I think John doesn't have heart but Hohmann is an absolute beast in that department.

 

[sjm]

Yes but the year before Schmidt beat Hohmann 150-21 At Maryland 14.1...similar field. John is the favorite in 1 Pocket and the underdog in rotation...but both at there best I don't know the favorite in 14.1

Thorsten has won many more major 14.1 titles than John, including several Dragon 14.1 events, Maryland 14.1 events and New Jersey 14.1 events, not to mention the European Straight Pool Championships.

At his best, Thorsten averaged about 50 balls per inning in the European 14.1 Championships. Thorsten's highest gear is one that, arguably, no player since Mosconi has reached.

John, of course, is a great player and might win on any given day, but his resume of 14.1 achievements is not on a par with either Hohmann or, for that matter, Ortmann.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Toastie is in stroke. What a fine last year he's enjoyed. I prefer all arounds but John may be better suited (being he doesn't play near as much as Toastie) to play only 14.1. It'd be easier for him to bone up on one discipline vs 3.

 

[boogeyman]

Yes but the year before Schmidt beat Hohmann 150-21 At Maryland 14.1...similar field. John is the favorite in 1 Pocket and the underdog in rotation...but both at there best I don't know the favorite in 14.1

Great thread. I give Toastie the win in ALL the games (even the one hole) for one reason in particular:
Toastie always comes to the table "hungry."

Schmidt is great, but he doesn't take the game as seriously when compared to Toastie.

IMPORTANT TIP——and I rib a lot of people for their grammar so please don't take offense....
the above SHOULD READ ...both at THEIR best.... NOT ...both at THERE best....

PLEASE SPELLCHECK YOUR POSTS, PEOPLE — IT'S VERY DISTRACTING!

Happy writing!:smile:

 

[NYC cue dude]

Great thread. I give Toastie the win in ALL the games (even the one hole) for one reason in particular:
Toastie always comes to the table "hungry."

Schmidt is great, but he doesn't take the game as seriously when compared to Toastie.

IMPORTANT TIP——and I rib a lot of people for their grammar so please don't take offense....
the above SHOULD READ ...both at THEIR best.... NOT ...both at THERE best....

PLEASE SPELLCHECK YOUR POSTS, PEOPLE — IT'S VERY DISTRACTING!

Happy writing!:smile:

John is the overwhelming favorite in 1 pocket. Thorsten only plays it once a year at the derby (this year he did play an all around with Shuff that included 1pkt). He has no idea on the moves of the game. At all. He plays purely on instinct.

 

[u12armresl]

John isn't a dog to anyone in the world playing straight pool.

The easy way to test toasty is to tell him to put some $$$ on it. Oh wait, never mind he doesn't do that.

 

[SakuJack]

The easy way to test toasty is to tell him to put some $$$ on it. Oh wait, never mind he doesn't do that.

And people wonder why pool has struggled to professionalise.

Hohmann is the favourite, in my opinion, as he is simply the better 14.1 match player. Schmidt is a match for just about anybody on his day, though, and is always capable of putting high runs together.

I'd like to see an all around between the two.

 

[chevybob20]

I would pay to watch a 14.1 event between these top notch competitors. If it could only happen as an all around event, I would pay for that too.

What would it take to produce this event and who would do it now that TAR is gone? It's sad to say but judging by past financial support, this has zero chance of occurring.

 

[DAVE_M]

Thorsten would probably be the favorite in everything but the one pocket. But I don't think any such match is in the works.

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I agree.

John would be a big favorite it 1Pocket.
Thorsten would be a big favorite in 9ball, 10ball, and probably even 8ball.
Thorsten would be a slight favorite in 14.1; John can play a little in the game.

 

[CreeDo]

If a challenge match for good $ was arranged 3 months in advance and both players put all their free time in preparation for the event...

I was really hoping this sentence would end "would you pay to watch and make it happen?"

and it was a race to 500, is Thorsten still the favorite or is it Pick em?
And if 1 Pocket and 10 Ball are added do the odds change?

Toasty is tough for anyone who hasn't been active.
Toasty plays 15-20 events per year and is constantly in good form (and in good shape).
And he's won many of these events, he's not just showing up to recoup expenses.

I have no idea how much time john devotes to practice and gambling vs. the dirtbike,
but the fact that he's playing only half as many tournaments has to make him an underdog.

I have Toasty as the favorite at rotation games.
8 ball I think is a tossup, the racks are so short and have a lot of luck.
Rotation games, I think toasty has the edge.

Straight pool, with john prepared and caring about the outcome... it's a tossup.

Toasty has a better tournament record but statistically he's supposed to,
because he plays twice as many events. John can't win what he doesn't play.

Their high runs are near identical and I don't think there's anything toasty knows
(or can execute) that john doesn't have in his bag.

 

[StraightPoolIU]

I want to make it clear that I wasn't disparaging John in any way. I think he's a great player and one of the best straight pool players on the planet. But it's no secret that he has a lot of things he loves to do outside of playing pool. When you aren't playing as much as someone who is you will not be the favorite against them as others have pointed out.

 

[Palmerfan]

Agree

I was really hoping this sentence would end "would you pay to watch and make it happen?"



Toasty is tough for anyone who hasn't been active.
Toasty plays 15-20 events per year and is constantly in good form (and in good shape).
And he's won many of these events, he's not just showing up to recoup expenses.

I have no idea how much time john devotes to practice and gambling vs. the dirtbike,
but the fact that he's playing only half as many tournaments has to make him an underdog.

I have Toasty as the favorite at rotation games.
8 ball I think is a tossup, the racks are so short and have a lot of luck.
Rotation games, I think toasty has the edge.

Straight pool, with john prepared and caring about the outcome... it's a tossup.

Toasty has a better tournament record but statistically he's supposed to,
because he plays twice as many events. John can't win what he doesn't play.

Their high runs are near identical and I don't think there's anything toasty knows
(or can execute) that john doesn't have in his bag.

Hey Creedo - I pretty much agree with "Straight pool, with john prepared and caring about the outcome... it's a tossup.".... as well as.... "Their high runs are near identical and I don't think there's anything toasty knows (or can execute) that john doesn't have in his bag."

That's why I made clear the 3 month preparation part...I am a huge fan of both guys and have seen both of them play straight pool in person and on stream/youtube. I just wanted to get a feel of what people thought that really know 14.1 and know how close these two are when both at their best. I don't know their Head-to-Head record..tried to find it but no luck.

I still believe Thorsten is the fave in 9-10 Ball at their best not in a run away...but for sure the favorite and John is the favorite in 1 pocket as he has improved in that discipline and Thorsten doesn't play it much.

 

[Palmerfan]

Got ya

I want to make it clear that I wasn't disparaging John in any way. I think he's a great player and one of the best straight pool players on the planet. But it's no secret that he has a lot of things he loves to do outside of playing pool. When you aren't playing as much as someone who is you will not be the favorite against them as others have pointed out.

That's the reason I said 3 month prep...and being at his best. No doubt Thorsten wins if John hasn't been playing...My real question is both at their best is it a toss up or is there a favorite??

 

[Palmerfan]

I would pay to watch a 14.1 event between these top notch competitors. If it could only happen as an all around event, I would pay for that too.

What would it take to produce this event and who would do it now that TAR is gone? It's sad to say but judging by past financial support, this has zero chance of occurring.

You're probably right on the all-around now that TAR is gone..Dragon 14.1 is in August..John won it once...Thorsten 3 times, might see them in the semis or finals there.

 

[Palmerfan]

Great thread. I give Toastie the win in ALL the games (even the one hole) for one reason in particular:
Toastie always comes to the table "hungry."

Schmidt is great, but he doesn't take the game as seriously when compared to Toastie.

IMPORTANT TIP——and I rib a lot of people for their grammar so please don't take offense....
the above SHOULD READ ...both at THEIR best.... NOT ...both at THERE best....

PLEASE SPELLCHECK YOUR POSTS, PEOPLE — IT'S VERY DISTRACTING!

Happy writing!:smile:

I definitely dont agree with the One Pocket...as I think most agree John is a favorite there...you may be right on the other two games..but think of a hungry John and a hungry Thorsten...both playing THEIR best. (PS thanks for the correction, bothers me as well)

 

[NYC cue dude]

I definitely dont agree with the One Pocket...as I think most agree John is a favorite there...you may be right on the other two games..but think of a hungry John and a hungry Thorsten...both playing THEIR best. (PS thanks for the correction, bothers me as well)

Thorsten has a gear that John does not. Thorsten knows how to win under the most extreme pressure. Few players on the planet do.