Thoughts on the Z² shaft.

...if you ever have trouble sleeping this is the link for you http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue_tip.html
LOL. Some of Dave's (excellent) stuff is for the terminally nerdy, alright. But you ain't seen nothin' 'til you've seen Amateur Physics for the Amateur Pool Player (by Ron Shepard, a fellow Chicagoan). Ron's stuff can put you into a coma - but I sure miss his posts from RSB.

pj <- terminal
chgo

Here's page 2 of APAPP (out of more than 100 pages total). Don't ask me...

APAPP pg 2.jpg
 
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usedtobe,

Have you tried the McDermott i3 & if so what do you think about it?

Thanks in advance,

Hello Rick Merry Christmas to you, the only question about any cue should be how much CB deflection when you hit with extreme high right (near miscue limit), or just above center extreme englsh very fast speed. Reason for high is to ensure no sliding when hit OB (no english induced throw), or swerving. Best test is spot shot, if you miss spot shot by 1/2 a diamond when aiming at center of pocket or more i would not recommend the cue.

You can do the same test with extreme bottom english but ensure rolling when it hit OB.
 
Thoughts on the Z² shaft please.

If you've played with one for any length of time, what did you think of it?

Do you use one now as your regular playing shaft?

I played with a Z² for a few months, then it suffered some damage and I tried a 314² for a couple of months while it was at the menders (had to be sent abroad), and now I'm back to the Z².

Having learnt English pool first, I quite like the narrower feel, which is somewhere between a standard American cue and a standard English cue.

As I've always been a bit of a non-conformist I also like being the only player at the tournament who uses one. :)

On the other had though, most of the greats use a 12.75 or 13mm tip, and so I wonder if there is not actually something a bit stupid about using an 11.75mm tip in American pool.

I'm at the point now where it's going to be really strange making the switch back to a wider tip, and if I leave it much longer before making a totally firm decision then it might end up being just too hard to make the change in future. So, if you think it's not just totally down to personal preference and you have some killer persuasive arguments about what tip width is best, now is the time to chime in. :smile:
I think its the stroke that matters not the shaft.Play with the same cue for a long time and you ll be glad, your wallet too.Pool player is like an artist you must give a perfomance ,feeling is an essential weapon.A lot of wealthy world wide players when they play at Phillipines (star billiard center Quezon city) or at Greece or at Mexico with poor players ,loose their pride and their money from players who play awesome pool eveb with a broomstick.
Merry Christmas !
 
I bought one with a Predator SP. I was only able to play about once a month and tried it about 4 or 5 times and hated it. Thought about throwing it in the trash.
I felt well enough to play a few times one week and started to get the feel of it. {As someone else said , it seems to magnify any English you put on the cue and also any stroke or mechanics flaws.}
I started to really like it and thought it was great until I couldn't play for a couple of months.
Had to start over from square one.
I believe if I played a few times a week, every week, I could improve with this shaft.
If you only play intermittently it was tough for me to get used to.
 
Thoughts on the Z² shaft please.

If you've played with one for any length of time, what did you think of it?

Do you use one now as your regular playing shaft?

I played with a Z² for a few months, then it suffered some damage and I tried a 314² for a couple of months while it was at the menders (had to be sent abroad), and now I'm back to the Z².

Having learnt English pool first, I quite like the narrower feel, which is somewhere between a standard American cue and a standard English cue.

As I've always been a bit of a non-conformist I also like being the only player at the tournament who uses one. :)

On the other had though, most of the greats use a 12.75 or 13mm tip, and so I wonder if there is not actually something a bit stupid about using an 11.75mm tip in American pool.

I'm at the point now where it's going to be really strange making the switch back to a wider tip, and if I leave it much longer before making a totally firm decision then it might end up being just too hard to make the change in future. So, if you think it's not just totally down to personal preference and you have some killer persuasive arguments about what tip width is best, now is the time to chime in. :smile:
I think its the stroke that matters not the shaft.Play with the same cue for a long time and you ll be glad, your wallet too.Pool player is like an artist you must give a perfomance ,feeling is an essential weapon.A lot of wealthy world wide players when they play at Phillipines (star billiard center Quezon city) or at Greece or at Mexico with poor players ,loose their pride and their money from players who play awesome pool even with a broomstick.
Merry Christmas !
 
Getting Back on Track

I did buy a guys cues one day and he had a Predator sneaky with the Z2 shaft. Hits good, draws the ball well but Im not going to keep it because I play with standard maple but I did notice a big difference in deflecting allowances. I have not tried to fire in some of harder shots. I think I might do that before I let it go. I like owning different equipment, so far its proven very educational. Ive got too much equipment now if I go to low deflection shafts I think Im just going to have a nervous breakdown......

336Robin :thumbup:
 
I think its the stroke that matters not the shaft.Play with the same cue for a long time and you ll be glad, your wallet too.Pool player is like an artist you must give a perfomance ,feeling is an essential weapon.A lot of wealthy world wide players when they play at Phillipines (star billiard center Quezon city) or at Greece or at Mexico with poor players ,loose their pride and their money from players who play awesome pool even with a broomstick.
Merry Christmas !

Maestro, your statement above i highlighted in red is true if you said (provided no side spin is applied). With side spin the formula changes and your weapon starts shooting in all directions that you did not intend or aim; therefore, the choice of shafts is extremely critical when factoring all aspect of game.
 
Reason for high is to ensure no sliding when hit OB (no english induced throw), or swerving.
In my experience high sidespin increases swerve compared to middle or low sidespin. I'd use middle sidespin and just hit hard enough to ensure swerve doesn't matter.

You can do the same test with extreme bottom english but ensure rolling when it hit OB.
Extreme bottom with sidespin also maximizes swerve, especially if you hit it slow enough to be rolling at OB contact.

Merry Christmas, naji. Will we ever agree on anything? :)

pj
chgo
 
Maestro, your statement above i highlighted in red is true if you said (provided no side spin is applied). With side spin the formula changes and your weapon starts shooting in all directions that you did not intend or aim; therefore, the choice of shafts is extremely critical when factoring all aspect of game.
before a couple of decades or so i saw King James Rempe demonstrates the tuck and throw.I think made a video tape too(pool school or something like that).Then i understand how i applie english by hitin the whity dead center....
 
In my experience high sidespin increases swerve compared to middle or low sidespin. I'd use middle sidespin and just hit hard enough to ensure swerve doesn't matter.


Extreme bottom with sidespin also maximizes swerve, especially if you hit it slow enough to be rolling at OB contact.

Merry Christmas, naji. Will we ever agree on anything? :)

pj
chgo

Actually Pat, i did agree with you a week or two ago in a post, and placed high recommendation to your pool knowledge; you proved me wrong about my 11 mm cue, i was thinking it did not deflect until i hit the shot hard and role the deflection appeared it was hiding in swerve like you said. Thanks for your persistence in conveying accurate pool knowledge, it really made me pocket balls much better, in one pocket recently had few games 8 and out, no missing anymore, and have high confidence in my cue now.

About the above you are right, i did have high english so the cue is leveled, but the objective is no swerve and no EIT to really see how the shaft behave.

Again thanks, and Merry Christmas
 
Thanks for your persistence in conveying accurate pool knowledge, it really made me pocket balls much better, in one pocket recently had few games 8 and out, no missing anymore, and have high confidence in my cue now.
That made my day, naji! Glad it helped!

pj
chgo
 
Hello Rick Merry Christmas to you, the only question about any cue should be how much CB deflection when you hit with extreme high right (near miscue limit), or just above center extreme englsh very fast speed. Reason for high is to ensure no sliding when hit OB (no english induced throw), or swerving. Best test is spot shot, if you miss spot shot by 1/2 a diamond when aiming at center of pocket or more i would not recommend the cue.

You can do the same test with extreme bottom english but ensure rolling when it hit OB.

Mr. Naji,

Merry Christmas to You & Yours as well.

I have just switched to LD shafts after 45 yrs. of english play with regular shafts. I'm using an OB Classic & a McDermott i2. I like both but as we have discussed before I learned with a conical taper. I breifly tried a McD i3 & liked it. I can spin the ball more with less effort & with less CB squirt. For me it has always been about the spin & swerve not the squirt. I never really 'knew' or acknowledged the squirt. It was always a subconsciously made adjustment with the focus on the spin & swerve. Now with CJ's touch of inside that I am experimenting with the deflection is the focus. I'm not sure I like it that way. I have been hitting too hard too often in order to quarantee the squirt. I think his TOI might work better with a regualr shaft. My experiments are continuing.

Again Merry Christmas,
 
Mr. Naji,

Merry Christmas to You & Yours as well.

I have just switched to LD shafts after 45 yrs. of english play with regular shafts. I'm using an OB Classic & a McDermott i2. I like both but as we have discussed before I learned with a conical taper. I breifly tried a McD i3 & liked it. I can spin the ball more with less effort & with less CB squirt. For me it has always been about the spin & swerve not the squirt. I never really 'knew' or acknowledged the squirt. It was always a subconsciously made adjustment with the focus on the spin & swerve. Now with CJ's touch of inside that I am experimenting with the deflection is the focus. I'm not sure I like it that way. I have been hitting too hard too often in order to quarantee the squirt. I think his TOI might work better with a regualr shaft. My experiments are continuing.

Again Merry Christmas,

CJ method is hit with inside hard, but lots of balls need to be hit with outside too, or inside soft. To be consistent in pool one has to be aware of all factors, swerve, throw, squirt all the time before they go down and shoot, at times you hit a ball soft but not soft enough it does the squirt and swerve.

Best of luck.
 
Both tips would be shaped in either a dime or a nikel curvature so the contact on the CB will be the same....
Imo,no way.If I have a 12.75mm and a 11.75mm shaped at a dime,your still
gonna hit with more tip with the 12.75 than the 11.75.
What your saying is if any size tips from 7mm to 13mm shaped to the same
curvature would have the same contact coverage?If this is what your
saying,I strongly disagree.
 
Just spoke to a guy who gave me the best answer about cueball
contact.
If a tip compresses which it does, the 12.75 would have a longer
contact time then the 9mm providing there using the same tip.

There's a reason why snooker players don't use 13mm tips.
If everything was the same,we would all use the same.

By the thousands of opinions on the difference a smaller tip
plays compared to a big tip,there is clearly a difference.
 
please explain

Just spoke to a guy who gave me the best answer about cueball
contact.
If a tip compresses which it does, the 12.75 would have a longer
contact time then the 9mm providing there using the same tip.

There's a reason why snooker players don't use 13mm tips.
If everything was the same,we would all use the same.

By the thousands of opinions on the difference a smaller tip
plays compared to a big tip,there is clearly a difference.
===============================================

If the smaller tip compress more then it should be longer contact time.
MMike
 
===============================================

If the smaller tip compress more then it should be longer contact time.
MMike
Lets say both tips are dead flat as some players have
would you still think both are equal?
I've hit middle ball with a snooker cue and a pool cue.The bigger tip
left the bigger mark and both tips were shaped the same.

To me its not big science,try it yourself with both sizes and hit middle ball,
you'll see what I'm saying.
 
If a tip compresses which it does, the 12.75 would have a longer contact time then the 9mm providing there using the same tip.
I don't think it's clear that longer contact time would make a difference. Compression absorbs impact to begin with, counteracting any power gain. And was it the Jacksonville experimenters who said that longer contact time might actually reduce spin?

pj
chgo
 
Why does this myth get repeated so much? Shafts with small tip diameter don't magnify stroke errors.

Higher squirt might "autocorrect" a little more for stroke errors than lower squirt, but that difference probably won't save many shots.

pj
chgo


Very interesting. I would've thought the exact opposite! :confused:
 
Why does this myth get repeated so much? Shafts with small tip diameter don't magnify stroke errors.

Higher squirt might "autocorrect" a little more for stroke errors than lower squirt, but that difference probably won't save many shots.

pj
chgo
DrClean:
Very interesting. I would've thought the exact opposite!
You mean about small tips not magnifying stroke errors? Maybe indirectly, if their smallness makes them lower squirt.

Or about higher squirt self-correcting more? Squirt "straightens out" offcenter hits... more squirt = straighter (pivotpoint@bridge=straight).

pj
chgo
 
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