Three problems with the grip of the cue, please help me.

Train1077

Train1077

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have three problems with the grip hand, I am hoping that some of you might be able to help me.

1. How to make the whip wrist action to generate cue power, draw, top and english. I am starting to think that I can't do it right, either I miss, my wrist becomes too loose in all directions or some of my fingers don't know if they should be on the cue to stabilize or what to do. How can I learn this wrist action?

2. I can't seem to find the right way to hold the cue. I've tried making a ring where I make a circle with mu thumb and index finger and taking a loose grip about the cue, I tried it making the ring with thumb and index and midle finger to making the circle thicker to make it more stable. I've tried bending my fingers, making a kind of basket for the cues to lie in, and a looot more variations. It look sooo easy when others play, they have a semi-open hand when the cue is in the back of the swing and they seem to close the hand around the cue when in the front of the swing where they are hitting the cb, but no one has been able to explain a good way that feels comfortable. Can someone help?

3. I can't seem to relax my grip hand when trying to use power to shoot. especially when making draw shots, I shoot low on the CB, and then when shooting a bit hard, I grip hard on the cue, pressing the tip doing, resulting in a shoveling jump shot of the table. I am actually almost an expert in this by now :eek: ... How do you handle the instinct to grip the cue hard when shooting hard, I think it is all a mental thing, being nervous about making the cue fly out of the hand and God knows where it will fly...
 
Train1077 said:
I have three problems with the grip hand, I am hoping that some of you might be able to help me.

1. How to make the whip wrist action to generate cue power, draw, top and english. I am starting to think that I can't do it right, either I miss, my wrist becomes too loose in all directions or some of my fingers don't know if they should be on the cue to stabilize or what to do. How can I learn this wrist action?

2. I can't seem to find the right way to hold the cue. I've tried making a ring where I make a circle with mu thumb and index finger and taking a loose grip about the cue, I tried it making the ring with thumb and index and midle finger to making the circle thicker to make it more stable. I've tried bending my fingers, making a kind of basket for the cues to lie in, and a looot more variations. It look sooo easy when others play, they have a semi-open hand when the cue is in the back of the swing and they seem to close the hand around the cue when in the front of the swing where they are hitting the cb, but no one has been able to explain a good way that feels comfortable. Can someone help?

3. I can't seem to relax my grip hand when trying to use power to shoot. especially when making draw shots, I shoot low on the CB, and then when shooting a bit hard, I grip hard on the cue, pressing the tip doing, resulting in a shoveling jump shot of the table. I am actually almost an expert in this by now :eek: ... How do you handle the instinct to grip the cue hard when shooting hard, I think it is all a mental thing, being nervous about making the cue fly out of the hand and God knows where it will fly...
Click to expand...

no short cut advice here man. it's all trial and error
 
Isn't there a right way to hold the cue?? or any ways to practise the wrist action? except from playing?
 
1. You really don't need any "whip action" in your stroke. Your forearm is quite capable of generating all the cue speed you need to get the results you want. Your wrist should remain relaxed throughout the entire stroke, regardless of whether it's a follow, stop, or draw shot.

2. A good grip is relaxed and comfortable, and remains constant throughout the entire stroke. It's not a matter of which fingers are used. I've seen good grips in a variety of different strokes. Your grip hand should cradle the cue, not grip it.

3. One way of describing how hard to grip the cue is to hold it as if it were a baby bird...firm enough so it doesn't get away, but not so tight as to hurt it. Start by using a softer stroke and focus on keeping your grip relaxed, Gradually, increase the speed while making sure you don't tighten your grip. As soon as your grip tightens, you lose control of the tip, so back off immediately. You can get there, but do it gradually. Your grip and stroke shouldn't change, just because you are increasing the speed of the shot.

Steve
 
go down to your local pool hall and ask around. You will be shown different styles. Use whatever fits you
 
Train1077 said:
Isn't there a right way to hold the cue?? or any ways to practise the wrist action? except from playing?
Click to expand...

i'd really suggest minimal wrist movement. the more movement the more confusing it is. you're best bet is to do some drills where you practice doing what you're trying to do.

i prefer progressive drills. try to follow the ball as much as you can and then when you have that down try to tone it down. the longer you play the better your stoke'll become and the more follow/draw/spin you'll be able to produce.

don't get too caught up in the fancy wrist movement you see some people doing.
 
Make sure you are not hitting at the cue ball (jabbing) but rather stroking through it. Feel as though you are keeping the tip on the cue ball longer. Gradual acceleration through the ball is the goal. When I'm not stroking well this is the bad habit I fall into. When I "hit from the back", or in other words jab at the cue ball from the back of the stroke, rather than starting forward slowly and gradually accelerating into the cue ball and following through.

Try this and you will be amazed at how much more action you get and you don't have to stroke as hard to get the action either. Your tip placement accuracy will improve and it will help you stroke straighter.

Hope this helps.
 
Train1077 said:
I have three problems with the grip hand, I am hoping that some of you might be able to help me.

1. How to make the whip wrist action to generate cue power, draw, top and english. I am starting to think that I can't do it right, either I miss, my wrist becomes too loose in all directions or some of my fingers don't know if they should be on the cue to stabilize or what to do. How can I learn this wrist action?

2. I can't seem to find the right way to hold the cue. I've tried making a ring where I make a circle with mu thumb and index finger and taking a loose grip about the cue, I tried it making the ring with thumb and index and midle finger to making the circle thicker to make it more stable. I've tried bending my fingers, making a kind of basket for the cues to lie in, and a looot more variations. It look sooo easy when others play, they have a semi-open hand when the cue is in the back of the swing and they seem to close the hand around the cue when in the front of the swing where they are hitting the cb, but no one has been able to explain a good way that feels comfortable. Can someone help?

3. I can't seem to relax my grip hand when trying to use power to shoot. especially when making draw shots, I shoot low on the CB, and then when shooting a bit hard, I grip hard on the cue, pressing the tip doing, resulting in a shoveling jump shot of the table. I am actually almost an expert in this by now :eek: ... How do you handle the instinct to grip the cue hard when shooting hard, I think it is all a mental thing, being nervous about making the cue fly out of the hand and God knows where it will fly...
Click to expand...

1. See Pooltchr's post

2. Try gripping the cue with with only your thumb, index and middle finger. The other two will just rest on the cue. Ronnie Alcano actually keeps those fingers off the cue entirely.

3. Try relaxing your grip on your backswing.
 
You state a fear of loosing the cue by having too light of a grip. Eliminate the fear. On your forward stroke release the cue almost throwing
the cue at the CB. You'll actually find that the cue will not leave your hand. I'm not suggesting that this is acceptable technique for competition
although my mentor used to grip the cue with what looked like a death grip, but as he came through his fingers opened up. Most people never saw
that last part. My point here is if you do this drill, the fear of dropping the cue will vanish plus it may help you develop that light grip you're looking for.

I think it was Lassiter that said " A light grip is good. Lighter is better."
 
For all of the talk about light grips, if you watch the pros, and look at pics of their grip hand, seldom do you see space between the hand and stick.

That's just an observation, and yes, there are exceptions. But, you don't see a lot of floppy grips.
 
Dead Crab said:
For all of the talk about light grips, if you watch the pros, and look at pics of their grip hand, seldom do you see space between the hand and stick.

That's just an observation, and yes, there are exceptions. But, you don't see a lot of floppy grips.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is saying you should have a floppy grip. These pro's are most certainly not strangling the cue. I would say the majority have a relaxed grip which is not easily detectable by photos.
 
Actually, it's quite easy to see how the cue is being gripped, using video, and stop-action, slow motion. You just have to know how to shoot the video, and what to look for. My advice to the OP is to take a lesson from a qualified instructor, who can spot their problems, and show them how to fix them.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Cameron Smith said:
These pro's are most certainly not strangling the cue. I would say the majority have a relaxed grip which is not easily detectable by photos.
Click to expand...
 
I don't think a whipping action is part of any of the great strokes. IMO, "wrist action" is the act of keeping your grip loose enough to give you maximum cue vibration when you hit the cue ball. Watch Efren Reyes, Fransisco Bustamante, Santos Sanbahon, etc. Their grips are loose and their cues make a very lively tone when they hit the cue ball.

I make mine loose, but maintain my grip by either using a wrapless cue for maximum cue to finger stiction. With a slicker cue, it helps to keep the thumb straight down and keep your grip within 6" of the balance point.
 
Well, here's a lil tip that helped me long ago. First off, stop thinking of shooting "hard shots or soft shots". Rather think of these as just speeding up your stroke. To get more draw you simply speed up your stroke. To get less draw try shooting with a slower stroke. Your grip should remain the same or pretty close to the same on both of these shots.
Also, the lower you go on the cue will vary the amount of draw. Start with the cue about 2ft. from the object ball and see how far you can draw the ball just by hitting lower on the cue ball. Then back up 1ft. and try again. You will be surprised how much draw you can get by a good stroke and not hitting too hard. Practice, practice, practice.
 
nksmfamjp...The balance point has nothing to with where to hold your cue. You hold your cue where your forearm drops straight down below your elbow, when the tip is touching the CB. Grip position is generally determined by height and/or wingspan. The balance point of the cue can be placed anywhere, by the cuemaker.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

nksmfamjp said:
. With a slicker cue, it helps to keep the thumb straight down and keep your grip within 6" of the balance point.
Click to expand...
 
I'm not sure if my message was clear, but I have noticed that when I grip too far behind the balance point that, with a linen wrapped cue, it tends to slide more in my grip. This of course feels out of control and then I will clinch my hand when drawwing and deaden the cue, but if my grip is closer to the balance point, the additional weight on the grip fingers seems to make the cue not slide. Just my experience.

I would disagree that balance point has nothing to do with where to grip the cue. I think 3 - 6" behind the balance point was Mosconi's advice, not mine. IMO, we have gotten over consumed with the whole 90 deg advice. Does Efren Reyes do that? Did Willie Mosconi? and so on. I would argue they hold/held the cue just in front of that point and that it allows the cue to be stroked more naturally. Starting at 90 deg for my makes my back swing bind in the web of my hand. Moving an inch forward takes this binding out in the backswing.

Idealy, it feels best to me to be holding the cue about 6 inches behind the balance point. Of course, stretching out affects this. Not sure if this is where to grip the cue or how to have a cue built for your size advice though.
 
I'm sorry, but I must disagree. The balance point of the cue has little or nothing to do with where you should grip the cue. With proper mechanics, the stroke is all about how the shooter moves. If you are holding the cue, your arm and hand movement will determine 100% what the cue will do. And all we really want to do is move the cue stick forward in a straight line.

I am 6' tall with average build. I was shooting with a friend the other night who is about 5'9" and more compact in size. I was letting him try out a new tip I had put on my cue, and his grip location was much different on the same cue from mine.

I'm not saying the balance point isn't important. It's certainly something to consider when you buy a cue, or have one made. But I would not recommend adjusting body mechanics of your stroke to fit a cue.

Steve
 
nksmfamjp said:
I'm not sure if my message was clear, but I have noticed that when I grip too far behind the balance point that, with a linen wrapped cue, it tends to slide more in my grip. This of course feels out of control and then I will clinch my hand when drawwing and deaden the cue, but if my grip is closer to the balance point, the additional weight on the grip fingers seems to make the cue not slide. Just my experience.

I would disagree that balance point has nothing to do with where to grip the cue. I think 3 - 6" behind the balance point was Mosconi's advice, not mine. IMO, we have gotten over consumed with the whole 90 deg advice. Does Efren Reyes do that? Did Willie Mosconi? and so on. I would argue they hold/held the cue just in front of that point and that it allows the cue to be stroked more naturally. Starting at 90 deg for my makes my back swing bind in the web of my hand. Moving an inch forward takes this binding out in the backswing.

Idealy, it feels best to me to be holding the cue about 6 inches behind the balance point. Of course, stretching out affects this. Not sure if this is where to grip the cue or how to have a cue built for your size advice though.
Click to expand...

If you want to see Willie Mosconi shoot two racks of straight pool, this was posted in the 14.1 forum yesterday:

http://www.vimeo.com
/4957545

On most shots Willie's grip is forward of the 90 degree point, but you have to be careful here. He used a "slip stroke" where he slides his backhand two or three inches on the final delivery stroke, so his grip is not as forward as it appears. The slip can be seen on some of his shots (but not the very soft ones or when he has to stretch). Also, on a lot of the shots his stance is more erect that most shooters today, making a forward grip more natural.

I post this for you but do not recommend that you try to imitate him. I would listen to the instructors. Their approach is much more likely to be successful for you.
 
pooltchr said:
I'm not saying the balance point isn't important. It's certainly something to consider when you buy a cue, or have one made. But I would not recommend adjusting body mechanics of your stroke to fit a cue.

Steve
Click to expand...

Thanks for saying that better.
 
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