Tiered entry fee for lower-skill players

Krypto

Krypto

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
While reviewing information from some regional tour websites, I discovered that the Predator 9 Ball Tour is allowing amateur players to utilize a decreasing entry fee based on the player's handicap (a C player would pay much less to enter the tourney than an a player would pay). I found this to be a really progressive way to increase tournament participation, and I would love to see some other tours / feature tournaments incorporate this into their future plans.

Does anyone have any thoughts as to why this would not be a step in the right direction? It looks great to me.

If interested, I have all the links to this information included in the article below.

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-21871-Birmingham-Billiards-Examiner~y2009m9d27-Regional-pool-and-billiard-tours-find-tieredentry-fees-a-ticket-for-economic-success

Thanks.

R.C.
 
In Germany many tournaments are organised so you can pay only
half of the entry fee. However, any prize money you win is also cut
in half. This means the better players pay the full entree fee and the
lower tier ones only buyin for half. Seems to work quite well.

gr. Dave
 
I think if you don't want to pay to play with the big dogs, stay home. That's why they have smaller local tournaments, and why some tours run both an open and an amateur tournaments.
I never liked the idea of giving different entry rates for junior or female players either. If you aren't confident enough in your own game to pay the entry fee, maybe you really don't belong there.
I'm sorry if that sounds cold, but it's a fact. Some players are just better than others. A lot of regional players can do very well, but put them in the US Open and they could easily be out in the second round.. That's life!

Steve
 
pooltchr said:
I think if you don't want to pay to play with the big dogs, stay home. That's why they have smaller local tournaments, and why some tours run both an open and an amateur tournaments.
I never liked the idea of giving different entry rates for junior or female players either. If you aren't confident enough in your own game to pay the entry fee, maybe you really don't belong there.
I'm sorry if that sounds cold, but it's a fact. Some players are just better than others. A lot of regional players can do very well, but put them in the US Open and they could easily be out in the second round.. That's life!

Steve
Click to expand...

What's cold got to do with it? The main thing it accomplishes it gives lots of FREE MONEY to the better players via entry fees by people with NO CHANCE to win and unlikely to even cash. A totally painless boost to prize money and people are against it. OK.
 
If I know I have no chance of winning, or even cashing, then I have two options. I can pay my fee and find out how well I do against stronger players, or I take that money and spend it on a different tournament. Either way, it doesn't hurt my game. Competition is competition.
With what you are saying, it would seem that the tournament would just be envcouraging MORE players who don't have a chance, of playing anyway. Is that doing anything other than making the pot a little fatter for the strong players?
I just think every player should pay the same entry fee. Let them make the choice whether or not to enter.
Steve
 
pooltchr said:
If I know I have no chance of winning, or even cashing, then I have two options. I can pay my fee and find out how well I do against stronger players, or I take that money and spend it on a different tournament. Either way, it doesn't hurt my game. Competition is competition.
With what you are saying, it would seem that the tournament would just be envcouraging MORE players who don't have a chance, of playing anyway. Is that doing anything other than making the pot a little fatter for the strong players?
I just think every player should pay the same entry fee. Let them make the choice whether or not to enter.
Steve
Click to expand...

If it makes the pot a little fatter and encourages more players?
Which results in larger turnouts, more money spent on products and instruction. More places want to have a tournament because it brings in more revenue?
Sounds pretty good to me!
Mark
 
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Whats wrong with having people that dont have a chance to win in a tournament? Unless fields are so full that it would become a problem with time, I dont see why it would be an issue.

Dont get me wrong, I understand what you are saying Steve, but unfortunately times are changing. Locally we have trouble getting enough people to show up for any kind of tourney. And now, thanks to the leagues, everyone expects to be handicapped so they can win without putting in the work to get good.

I dont know if the suggested system would work or not, but I wouldnt mind seeing someone try and find out. Id rather give the weaker players odds on their money than games on the wire :)

IMHO anything that adds to tournament participation without having to handicap everyone in a way that could determine the winner is worth a look.

Woody
 
Nostroke said:
What's cold got to do with it? The main thing it accomplishes it gives lots of FREE MONEY to the better players via entry fees by people with NO CHANCE to win and unlikely to even cash. A totally painless boost to prize money and people are against it. OK.
Click to expand...

Just to add:if a player is sandbagging he/she will only get one shot to cash high in the money, then they go up in rank with probably no chance to ever do it again. I say it's worth the risk and everyone doesn't sandbag. It's a good idea...why shoot it down? Johnnyt
 
I'm all for a tiered entry fee for lower skilled players.....

I mean the people who complain about the Tiered fee, would you rather have 10 to 20 extra players paying 60% or just the regular amount of entries at full price?

Would you rather have 30 to 40 entries at 75$ or 60 or more with those 20 or so more a mix of lower skilled players who paided a smaller entry fee?

More entries = more $ in the prize fund and more money in the calcutta.....
 
woody_968 said:
Whats wrong with having people that dont have a chance to win in a tournament? Unless fields are so full that it would become a problem with time, I dont see why it would be an issue.

Dont get me wrong, I understand what you are saying Steve, but unfortunately times are changing. Locally we have trouble getting enough people to show up for any kind of tourney. And now, thanks to the leagues, everyone expects to be handicapped so they can win without putting in the work to get good.

I dont know if the suggested system would work or not, but I wouldnt mind seeing someone try and find out. Id rather give the weaker players odds on their money than games on the wire :)

IMHO anything that adds to tournament participation without having to handicap everyone in a way that could determine the winner is worth a look.

Woody
Click to expand...

I agree Woody. Odds on the money is better than games on the wire anyday. These players would be required to prove their skill level from league participation, and if someone should try to abuse the system, it would take a major months-long effort to do so. Hardly worth the time, and they would still have to place in the tournament to cash. If you suspect someone is cheating, just buy their Calcutta. League players bumping high calcutta bids will surely raise a red flag. I like the fact that it fills the pool rooms up and gets more money circulating for everyone. I think what Robles is doing is a super idea.
 
The Desert Classic Tour started this last year. They grouped into 3 distinct categories and it helped bring out the players. The 'A' group paid $70 Entry, the 'B' group paid '50' and the 'C' paid $35.

They also had sidepots for various groups, including a $10 entry into a 'B' & Under pot. The highest finishing player that was a 'B' or 'C' rated player would take home this pot.

I got $160 on one of the stops for finishing 13th place overall, but top 'B' player.

You could ask Prince on here about his thoughts. He's the tour operator for the Desert Classic Tour. (www.desertclassictour.com)
 
Money tier in tournaments is a great idea IMO. I have stated this before in other threads. It would bring in new faces to tournaments which results in fatter checks. Who know, maybe a lower tier player might get in the money, making it exciting for himself and the viewers.
 
Krypto said:
While reviewing information from some regional tour websites, I discovered that the Predator 9 Ball Tour is allowing amateur players to utilize a decreasing entry fee based on the player's handicap (a C player would pay much less to enter the tourney than an a player would pay). I found this to be a really progressive way to increase tournament participation, and I would love to see some other tours / feature tournaments incorporate this into their future plans.

Does anyone have any thoughts as to why this would not be a step in the right direction? It looks great to me.

If interested, I have all the links to this information included in the article below.

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-21871-Birmingham-Billiards-Examiner~y2009m9d27-Regional-pool-and-billiard-tours-find-tieredentry-fees-a-ticket-for-economic-success

Thanks.

R.C.
Click to expand...



This is not a new idea the Blaze Tour and most of NYC open tournaments work like this. It allows the weaker players to gain experience in regional tournies for a reasonable price. It also allows the tournaments to get big fields because the entry fee is reasonable for players who have absolutely no chance of cashing. I am actually surprised this isn't happening all over the country.

BTW - somebody mentioned sandbagging. You can not sandbag at a regional tour more than once this isn't the APA for christ sake.
 
Krypto said:
While reviewing information from some regional tour websites, I discovered that the Predator 9 Ball Tour is allowing amateur players to utilize a decreasing entry fee based on the player's handicap (a C player would pay much less to enter the tourney than an a player would pay).
Click to expand...

Bottom line is the "C" Players can not win, and is only adding to the Pot for the "A" PLAYERS! IMHO
 
pooltchr said:
I think if you don't want to pay to play with the big dogs, stay home. That's why they have smaller local tournaments, and why some tours run both an open and an amateur tournaments.
I never liked the idea of giving different entry rates for junior or female players either. If you aren't confident enough in your own game to pay the entry fee, maybe you really don't belong there.
I'm sorry if that sounds cold, but it's a fact. Some players are just better than others. A lot of regional players can do very well, but put them in the US Open and they could easily be out in the second round.. That's life!

Steve
Click to expand...

They can also teach pool instead - which alot of them do!
 
I totally agree that the only handicap there should be in tournaments ( IF ANY) should be in entry fee discounts for lower rated players.

If an A player wants to sandbag a few dollar discount then all the power to them. First of all, it would only happen once, secondly, most A players are known and the attempt wouldn't get far to begin with.

Whether gambling or playing tournament I never liked handicaps. When I win getting a spot I feel either like I took advantage of my opponent, or that the victory was an empty one and I didn't do anything with skill. Getting a spot only allows you to dog it.

I'd rather give up a spot than get one. At least it gives me even more drive to work to win.

I know, I know, when you're gambling its for the money. Well I can flip coins or play poker or scratch lottery tickets if its just for the money.

If you want to improve, you work on your stroke, not on your spot.
 
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