Tight pockets... Cheating pockets

Ralph Kramden

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
I've seen more than a few threads about not being able to cheat the pockets if they are tight.
I agree to some extent, but it's possible to cheat any pocket if using the right speed and spin.

To cheat tighter pockets, the OB has to be close to the pocket, not so close on wide pockets.

My question.. How far a distance from the OB to a pocket can you actually cheat the pocket?
.
 
9ft?

Unless the pocket is 2 1/4 you can cheat any pocket to some extent. I play on 4 7/8" pockets at home and even though you can't adjust the angle you hit the OB at as much as 4 1/2" pockets, it can deffinately be done. On my table I take away the shot into the rail then into the pocket. It just doesn't work. If I hit any where on the rail it won't go.

People complain about tight pockets if they're not used to them. The game is played different on a tight table and leaving enough angle on a ball is vital so you don't have to power them in.
 
Ralph Kramden said:
I've seen more than a few threads about not being able to cheat the pockets if they are tight.
I agree to some extent, but it's possible to cheat any pocket if using the right speed and spin.

To cheat tighter pockets, the OB has to be close to the pocket, not so close on wide pockets.

My question.. How far a distance from the OB to a pocket can you actually cheat the pocket?
.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that the condition of the cloth, humidity, and balls make a huge difference in that ability to cheat the pockets. What you can do on a fresh new table, you won't be able to do the same when it's 6 months older;)
 
the tighter the pocket the less you can cheat it for position and the harder it is to make the ball using different speeds. you also lose the options for many other types of shots.

this turns the game into a shooting and precision game punishing those that dont rely on those two particular skills to play the game well.

great for really good players as they can torture the weaker players giving them no chance whatever to win in a longer game.

however for a newer player he never seems to get to run any balls and misses all the time. soon no fun for him and he goes back to his video games or whatever. that is partly the state of pool nowadays.
 
Pidge said:
9ft?

Unless the pocket is 2 1/4 you can cheat any pocket to some extent. I play on 4 7/8" pockets at home and even though you can't adjust the angle you hit the OB at as much as 4 1/2" pockets, it can deffinately be done. On my table I take away the shot into the rail then into the pocket. It just doesn't work. If I hit any where on the rail it won't go.

People complain about tight pockets if they're not used to them. The game is played different on a tight table and leaving enough angle on a ball is vital so you don't have to power them in.
Click to expand...

4 7/8 is bigger than 4 1/2
 
TOI trains us to constantly target a certain part of the pocket, so it is ........

Ralph Kramden said:
I've seen more than a few threads about not being able to cheat the pockets if they are tight.
I agree to some extent, but it's possible to cheat any pocket if using the right speed and spin.

To cheat tighter pockets, the OB has to be close to the pocket, not so close on wide pockets.

My question.. How far a distance from the OB to a pocket can you actually cheat the pocket?
.
Click to expand...

At the advance level this is the greatest strength in learning the 'Touch Of Inside" (TOI) Technique.....then you can cheat the pocket from any distance because you aren't doing it with speed and spin, you're doing it with the "3 Part Pocket System" using a slight deflection, consistent cue targeting and a consistent shot speed.

This is far superior because using spin and speed you have to take into account a multitude of factors..... TOI trains us to constantly target a certain part of the pocket, so it is like "Cheating"...you can contact any part of the pocket at will, because it's the essence of the system. 'The Game is my Teacher'
 
Ralph Kramden said:
I've seen more than a few threads about not being able to cheat the pockets if they are tight.
I agree to some extent, but it's possible to cheat any pocket if using the right speed and spin.

To cheat tighter pockets, the OB has to be close to the pocket, not so close on wide pockets.

My question.. How far a distance from the OB to a pocket can you actually cheat the pocket?
.
Click to expand...

My question was.. How far a distance from the OB to a pocket can you actually cheat the pocket?

My point is.. On the tight or moderately wide pockets, the OB has to be fairly close to cheat them.

On loose pockets there is no point to even try from a long distance unless you're almost straight in.

Tight pockets require more precise aiming. You can cheat a tight pocket, but position is important.
 
.this enables you to use the ENTIRE pocket and "cheating" becomes "honest pocketing"

Ralph Kramden said:
My question was.. How far a distance from the OB to a pocket can you actually cheat the pocket?

My point is.. On the tight or moderately wide pockets, the OB has to be fairly close to cheat them.

On loose pockets there is no point to even try from a long distance unless you're almost straight in.

Tight pockets require more precise aiming. You can cheat a tight pocket, but position is important.
Click to expand...

When "cheating" the pocket the distance makes a difference, however if you're used to favoring the inside part of the pocket you can always "over-cut" it slightly and have more flexibility with the cue ball.

Flexibility is the key to getting out of difficult positions and the best way to do this is WITHOUT spin as a first option. I use my target on the cue ball to "cheat" the pocket and the technique is easy using a "touch" of inside.

Even if you favor the inside of the pocket with "center" cue ball targeting you can cue the ball slightly inside and create MORE of a cut on the shot.

Cue the ball the same side as you're cutting the shot to do this. In other words, when you're cutting the ball to the left, cut it to the left, and when you're cutting the ball to the right, cue it to the right slightly.

This will create a situation that you will over-cut the shot slightly SO, you can "aim" to under-cut the ball slightly....this enables you to use the ENTIRE pocket and "cheating" becomes "honest ball pocketing" and it will soon seem like second nature.
 
CJ Wiley said:
When "cheating" the pocket the distance makes a difference, however if you're used to favoring the inside part of the pocket you can always "over-cut" it slightly and have more flexibility with the cue ball.

Flexibility is the key to getting out of difficult positions and the best way to do this is WITHOUT spin as a first option. I use my target on the cue ball to "cheat" the pocket and the technique is easy using a "touch" of inside.

Even if you favor the inside of the pocket with "center" cue ball targeting you can cue the ball slightly inside and create MORE of a cut on the shot.

Cue the ball the same side as you're cutting the shot to do this. In other words, when you're cutting the ball to the left, cut it to the left, and when you're cutting the ball to the right, cue it to the right slightly.

This will create a situation that you will over-cut the shot slightly SO, you can "aim" to under-cut the ball slightly....this enables you to use the ENTIRE pocket and "cheating" becomes "honest ball pocketing" and it will soon seem like second nature.
Click to expand...
One thing I've never understood about TOI is that I've heard people say that it makes the pocket seem larger because they have more margin for error because they are favouring one side of the CB.
So say I line up centre-centre and I have to shift half a tip inside to deflect the CB enough to make the ball and I end up hitting centre CB...wouldn't I hit the OB straight and miss the shot?
The same can be said if I line up along the required shot line with CCB and ended up hitting half a tip either side...I'm likely going to miss.

The way I "aim" or more to the point the way I decide what part of the pocket I want to hit is to first find the required tangent line whilst keeping the pocket in my thoughts. I pick a tangent line for the CB that I want, even if I'm using draw or follow and then look at where the OB will travel and that's the part of the pocket I aim for. If I'm missing the pocket slightly I throw the ball in with side, if I'm way off the pocket or I can't use that type of spin for positional reasons I just aim for the part of the pocket closest to my original OB path and do what I've got to do to get shape on the next ball.


Back on topic and I think you can cheat tight pockets from any distance, but its rare people would try cheat them at longer distances because they just want to make sure of the pot. At the pro level its rare you see a player aim centre pocket, regardless of distance, if they can't get shape from hitting centre pocket.
 
this gives you the feel for the entire pocket.

Pidge said:
One thing I've never understood about TOI is that I've heard people say that it makes the pocket seem larger because they have more margin for error because they are favouring one side of the CB.
So say I line up centre-centre and I have to shift half a tip inside to deflect the CB enough to make the ball and I end up hitting centre CB...wouldn't I hit the OB straight and miss the shot?
The same can be said if I line up along the required shot line with CCB and ended up hitting half a tip either side...I'm likely going to miss.

The way I "aim" or more to the point the way I decide what part of the pocket I want to hit is to first find the required tangent line whilst keeping the pocket in my thoughts. I pick a tangent line for the CB that I want, even if I'm using draw or follow and then look at where the OB will travel and that's the part of the pocket I aim for. If I'm missing the pocket slightly I throw the ball in with side, if I'm way off the pocket or I can't use that type of spin for positional reasons I just aim for the part of the pocket closest to my original OB path and do what I've got to do to get shape on the next ball.


Back on topic and I think you can cheat tight pockets from any distance, but its rare people would try cheat them at longer distances because they just want to make sure of the pot. At the pro level its rare you see a player aim centre pocket, regardless of distance, if they can't get shape from hitting centre pocket.
Click to expand...

If you miss the cue ball target slightly towards center and hit center you hit the inside of the pocket, if you hit where you target you hit the center and if you hit it slightly more inside you hit the outside of the pocket.....this gives you the feel for the entire pocket...you can do this with outside english too, but you have to use deflection AND spin to hit the 3 parts of the pocket.

One thing about "cheating the pocket," it's VERY difficult to do by adjusting your "aim" at a contact point...it's easiest to concentrate on one part of the pocket and "over cut" it into the center....or the outside, using spin and/or deflection.
 
Ralph Kramden said:
How far a distance from the OB to a pocket can you actually cheat the pocket?
Click to expand...

sounds like you are asking a geometry question.

If the OB is close to the pocket, you might be able to cheat, say, 5 degrees in either direction, if the OB is far away from the pocket, maybe only 1 degree in either direction, but still possible to cheat the pocket.

practically speaking however, if the OB is more than say 2 feet from the pocket, I would guess most people stop trying to cheat the pocket
 
You can "cheat the pocket" from any distance.

michael4 said:
sounds like you are asking a geometry question.

If the OB is close to the pocket, you might be able to cheat, say, 5 degrees in either direction, if the OB is far away from the pocket, maybe only 1 degree in either direction, but still possible to cheat the pocket.

practically speaking however, if the OB is more than say 2 feet from the pocket, I would guess most people stop trying to cheat the pocket
Click to expand...

You can "cheat the pocket" from any distance....you just force it "off line," just like any other shot.
 
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