Tight pockets or buckets?

sjharr

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Silver Member
Which do you think is better practice and why?

Stopped by the local hall to get some practice in today. I normally prefer to practice on the tight pocketed diamond they have, it's not a perfect table but it requires deadly accuracy to pocket a ball. If you happen to graze a rail on the way in chances are it will jaw.

Anyway....after practice I stopped by and chatted with a couple of other locals and we ended up getting in an interesting debate over the advantages and disadvantages of tight vs loose for practice.

I'd like to hear some of your responses.

Steve H
 
Tight pockets. It may be a struggle to pocket balls in the beginning and if that is the case then you may need to practice your aim before bothering with anything else.
 
for accuracy tight pockets. For improve your stroke is better to start with the buckets, because with tight pockets you play a little more conservative and you cinch more balls.
 
Which do you think is better practice and why?

Stopped by the local hall to get some practice in today. I normally prefer to practice on the tight pocketed diamond they have, it's not a perfect table but it requires deadly accuracy to pocket a ball. If you happen to graze a rail on the way in chances are it will jaw.

Anyway....after practice I stopped by and chatted with a couple of other locals and we ended up getting in an interesting debate over the advantages and disadvantages of tight vs loose for practice.

I'd like to hear some of your responses.

Steve H

For B and A players or better, practicing on tight pockets is way better for your game. If a pocket is tight enough, it will get a player out of the bad habit of cheating pockets. That forces you to play better angles.

I disagree that playing on tight tables will get a player into the habit of cinching shots - just the opposite. It's easier to hit center pocket with firmer shots. Poorly cut pockets cause players to cinch shots because they won't hold a firmly struck ball.

For players C or under, it's better if they learn on larger pockets because they won't be accurate enough to get much out of a tight table.

Chris
 
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Definitely tight pockets, but not too ridiculous. It teaches you to pocket the balls more accurately and forces you to play better position. On buckets, I can get away with positional errors just because I have a lot of room for error when pocketing an out of line shot.
 
I'm mostly in agreement with what Tate said. However, I think the tighter pockets only benefit the higher level players.

Here's my reasoning. At my local pool hall, I constantly see people fighting over practice and play time on the tight pocketed table in the room. All citing it improves their game. Nothing wrong with that. But I just don't believe it is NECESSARY for the improvement of most players. Particularly lower skilled players. Why? Because lower players don't even hit the pocket on buckets often enough. As a result, the smaller pockets aren't justified.

It isn't as though they are making shots with such boring regularity on the buckets that such bucket pockets are now obsolete in exposing their stroke flaws and aiming error. I see people who are APA 4's want the tight pockets for the challenge. I always think to myself: for them, buckets are still plenty of a challenge. It's like golf. If you can't get par on a par 3 course, you won't up your game playing on the toughest PGA courses in the country.

I figure it like this, if you aren't up around 95% or better (preferably better) on a particular drill or shot on buckets, then the tight pockets aren't going to be a significant help. You can achieve excellence on buckets - just up the standard. 50/50 isn't good enough to "graduate" to the challenge of smaller pockets.

Where tight pockets matter is when you can make a particular shot nearly every time on buckets. The tight pockets will force you to be even more precise after you've already improved your accuracy to the margin of error of buckets. Buckets for beginners to lower skilled players might actually be better, since at least the 5" (give or take) target at least gives back feedback as to whether they hit it or not. On a table like a Diamond, most of these players do not pay close attention as to where the ball hit when they missed. Was it off the point? Was it 1/2" off the point? That tends to be overlooked. And that might be an argument in favor of buckets for beginners. More feedback. That's a major deficiency among beginners or lower skilled players. They don't remember what they did or what happened. Or they have less awareness. Often, many aspects of the game are so challenging for them that they are putting everything they got into making a shot and keeping their body still and stroke straight that they have little awareness.

Lower players missing on tight pockets is no different than missing on buckets most of the time. They usually miss by enough to have missed on either. Yes, the tight pocket will reject shots that would have gone on the buckets, but how helpful is that? Given the wide range of inaccuracy a player has at that given point in their game.

There are many types of flaws in a stroke. Some players have incredible laser accuracy most shots but when their stroke breaks down or that flaw appears, the miss is no where near the pocket. Tight pockets won't matter for them. If they are more advanced, that flaw that rarely appears might be within the margin of error on buckets, but not on tight pockets. For them, the tight pockets are of good use for improving their game.


For lower skilled players, what's going to improve their game has little to do with how small the target it, and a whole lot more with them taking more of an active learning approach to improving fundamentals such as stance, stroke and all that good stuff. What's going to make them hit the buckets with regularity will also have them hitting the tight pockets with regularity, just not as much. In other words, the tight pockets are good for tweaking one's game and squeezing one toward higher care, precision, focus and accuracy.

That extra difficulty requiring better accuracy and all that don't help someone who isn't very, very consistent on buckets.
 
I'm mostly in agreement with what Tate said. However, I think the tighter pockets only benefit the higher level players.

Here's my reasoning. At my local pool hall, I constantly see people fighting over practice and play time on the tight pocketed table in the room. All citing it improves their game. Nothing wrong with that. But I just don't believe it is NECESSARY for the improvement of most players. Particularly lower skilled players. Why? Because lower players don't even hit the pocket on buckets often enough. As a result, the smaller pockets aren't justified.

It isn't as though they are making shots with such boring regularity on the buckets that such bucket pockets are now obsolete in exposing their stroke flaws and aiming error. I see people who are APA 4's want the tight pockets for the challenge. I always think to myself: for them, buckets are still plenty of a challenge. It's like golf. If you can't get par on a par 3 course, you won't up your game playing on the toughest PGA courses in the country.

I figure it like this, if you aren't up around 95% or better (preferably better) on a particular drill or shot on buckets, then the tight pockets aren't going to be a significant help. You can achieve excellence on buckets - just up the standard. 50/50 isn't good enough to "graduate" to the challenge of smaller pockets.

Where tight pockets matter is when you can make a particular shot nearly every time on buckets. The tight pockets will force you to be even more precise after you've already improved your accuracy to the margin of error of buckets. Buckets for beginners to lower skilled players might actually be better, since at least the 5" (give or take) target at least gives back feedback as to whether they hit it or not. On a table like a Diamond, most of these players do not pay close attention as to where the ball hit when they missed. Was it off the point? Was it 1/2" off the point? That tends to be overlooked. And that might be an argument in favor of buckets for beginners. More feedback. That's a major deficiency among beginners or lower skilled players. They don't remember what they did or what happened. Or they have less awareness. Often, many aspects of the game are so challenging for them that they are putting everything they got into making a shot and keeping their body still and stroke straight that they have little awareness.

Lower players missing on tight pockets is no different than missing on buckets most of the time. They usually miss by enough to have missed on either. Yes, the tight pocket will reject shots that would have gone on the buckets, but how helpful is that? Given the wide range of inaccuracy a player has at that given point in their game.

There are many types of flaws in a stroke. Some players have incredible laser accuracy most shots but when their stroke breaks down or that flaw appears, the miss is no where near the pocket. Tight pockets won't matter for them. If they are more advanced, that flaw that rarely appears might be within the margin of error on buckets, but not on tight pockets. For them, the tight pockets are of good use for improving their game.


For lower skilled players, what's going to improve their game has little to do with how small the target it, and a whole lot more with them taking more of an active learning approach to improving fundamentals such as stance, stroke and all that good stuff. What's going to make them hit the buckets with regularity will also have them hitting the tight pockets with regularity, just not as much. In other words, the tight pockets are good for tweaking one's game and squeezing one toward higher care, precision, focus and accuracy.

That extra difficulty requiring better accuracy and all that don't help someone who isn't very, very consistent on buckets.

Beautifully written. I completely agree with you. When I see beginner players play, they miss by a lot. Instead of using tighter pockets, I think the better way is to focus on stroke drills and practicing straight shots. I was watching a amateur women tournament awhile ago playing on 3 7/8 inches. They are pretty decent players, I'm sure they can sometimes run out a rack of 9 ball on a more normal sized pocket. But the pocket tightness really killed their game. High run was about 4-5 balls.

I think it is good for practice for players who when they miss, its really close (not a diamond or two away). But when used in competition, if the players aren't accurate enough, it becomes the battle of the roll on the 8 or 9 ball.
 
However, I might have to disagree with you on who can play on tight pockets. Two summers ago in Taiwan, I was nowhere near the level that I'm playing today. My high run in straight pool on buckets did not exceed a rack. I was introduced to a club in a pool room that had a ton of 3.6 inch pockets, and my accuracy dramatically improved. But then again, I was being mentored by a bunch of guys who's been playing for a long time, so that might be the difference.

I think beginners (10 ball high run, basic draw and follow shots) can somewhat benefit from tighter pockets to increase accuracy and to force them to be more precise with their aiming. However, bigger pockets would be more beneficial to practice positioning because they would just get frustrated from missing.

It's kindda like if I played 9 ball against Efren Reyes for a summer. I won't improve because there is too much difference. Same for beginners on ridiculously tight pockets, they will not improve unless they already have the basic concepts down.
 
As most of you have stated, I agree that practicing on a tight pocketed table will ultimately benefit you in the long run, if you choose to improve.

The players that I was debating with both were higher level players - not regional tourney champs - but both are 7's in the apa, both are very knowledgeable about the game and both players felt like practicing on tight pockets actually was detrimental to your game. :confused:

Most of my reasoning was centered around the idea that tight pockets require accuracy, which can only help improve your stroke accuracy. Yes, it does take some cinch and cheat shots out of the game, I understand that. But I don't understand how practicing to pocket the ball in the middle of the pocket could anyhow be detrimental to one's game?

These folks also mentioned that since they were only recreational players and not 'pros' there was no need to waste time on tight pockets. Again....:confused:

Any additional thoughts?

Steve H
 
Both....

Tight pockets have the benefit of precision.....you can improve your aim and get tons of confidence on tables with buckets....

Buckets have the advantage of giving you the confidence to run out and run racks.....a strong B player might only run 2 or 3 racks on a tight table, but running a solid 5 on buckets might give them a mental edge, especially if they have hit a plateau...

IMHO, variety is the spice of life.....a little of both can't hurt.....same with being proficient at a number of different games.....an easy 1 pocket shot during an 8 ball game can be the difference between a win and a loss....
 
Which do you think is better practice and why?

Stopped by the local hall to get some practice in today. I normally prefer to practice on the tight pocketed diamond they have, it's not a perfect table but it requires deadly accuracy to pocket a ball. If you happen to graze a rail on the way in chances are it will jaw.

Anyway....after practice I stopped by and chatted with a couple of other locals and we ended up getting in an interesting debate over the advantages and disadvantages of tight vs loose for practice.

I'd like to hear some of your responses.

Steve H

i really prefer tighter pockets. not real tight but respectably tight. not just because you have to hit balls well for the balls to go, but because balls don't just hang up. i buckets balls hang up a lot because there's no where else for htem to go.

also there're some positional shots you just can't do on bigger pockets.
 
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