Tight Pockets=tight Money
- Thread starter cueman
- Start date
Cueman, there is something about watching good pool that I think escapes your grasp. When a player is in dead punch, he will split the pocket every shot. The pockets could be 3" and he'd still run out from everywhere. If you loosen up the pockets, all you're going to get is a bunch of flukes and upsets that shouldn't happen. It's pretty sick when someone misses a ball so badly that you hop up out of your chair but somehow the pocket accepts the ball so you sit back down. The players that deserve to win tournaments are the ones that are playing the best that day, not the ones who are having the equipment cater to their mistakes. I would hate to see a red hot Efren Reyes get kept in his chair by some local nobody who is running racks because the pockets are enormous, and half of the balls he pockets should normally be misses. If the pockets are normal sized, or a bit tighter than usual, I would LOVE to see some local nobody drilling Efren, because I would be witnessing GREAT POOL, not a FLUKE.
Pocket "cut"
I played in the "Color of Money" tournament in 86 or 87 at the Biltmore Hotel in Los Angeles. The pockets were cut so deep if you jawed a ball and the cueball was on the end rail near the pocket, you couldn't see the object ball and had to play it off of the point. You are right, the cut of the pocket can also make a big difference in the way the table plays.Hustler08 said:
You may be right that some of Sigels wins were on tight pockets. But the norm was what you call buckets. Doesn't he deserve credit for winning on buckets as you call them also? They were just normal pockets to people then. How do you like my football suggestions? That is what is being done to pool. I saw Mike Sigel play in his prime at a pro tournaments on regular pockets in the 80's. He did not win at the ones I was at, but placed well. But of all those larger PBA pro tournaments I worked on cues at, I never saw a local win one. Reyes, Strickland, David Howard, Varner and so on, won those tournaments. So the best still won and it made better television.Jimmy M. said:
Tight pockets are OK, such as Diamond Pro tables. It is when pockets are shimmed and pockets on the same table do not react the same, that sucks. No reason to modify a table, most modifications turn out like junk. Instead buy the table according to your desire of play and leave it a-l-o-n-e. Shims are cobb jobs. In general it is fun to play on different manufactures tables and to enjoy the difference in play.bud green said:
Donald A. Purdy said:
If you make the pockets big you are making it harder for the cream to rise to the top. With large enough pockets I could run a 9 pack and beat Archer if I simply won the lag or the flip of the coin, is that fair? Is that waht people want? Personally I want to see the best players win the matches due to playing the best, not losing a lag and then watching some guy wobble balls in and run out a set because the table is so damn easy. Give me 8 inch pockets and I am a good bet to beat anyone in the world because at that point I WONT miss, but is that something to be proud of? Screw that, I want to see tough tables that amke the best players the favorites to win a match and allow the cream rise to the top. I dont want to see some short stop beating the better pro player simply because he won the lag and got on a table that is a piece of cake to perform on.
The more you trivialize the game the less you reward the top players and the more you will see upsets due to the game being too easy.
What an excellent point. Make the rules tougher not the tables.Gremlin said:
Gremlin said:Celtic,
The game of pool tries to have rules why not stick to them? The brain dead game of 9-Ball trivializes itself because anyone who is hot can win it, even you. 9-ball is a carnival show as far as I am concerned. You are welcomed to watch anyone you want play on your crooked table.
9-Ball has such a worthless reputation with the general public no one I know watches it no matter who is playing it and for what? A great pool expert like yourself should be watching the cream of the croup play 10-Ball on a table that conforms to the rules. 9-Ball pool a sport? Fat chance! In all the pool tournaments I have attended I have never seen more than two or three hundred people attend pool at one time because there is never any room for them. LOL OH, I didn't mention making the pockets big just regulation.
A race to 5, alternate break, 9-Ball is nothing but luck. Mike Massey's dog could win it.Fast Larry could beat you LOL Happy holiday!
Cheers,
"Gremlin"
LOL dont even get me started on 9-ball! Oh man I wish they would ditch that game for something hard. 15 ball rotation for a point a ball, 10 ball, one pocket, heck I dont care, someone please take 9-ball away! Come on Charlie Williams, Mark Griffin, Barry Berman, Allen Hopkins, anyone else out there with some power in the game save pool and give us a new game that will never be trivialized and allow us to move on to a brighter future in this little sport of ours. I so agree with you it is not even funny, now we just have to wait for someone to finally make a move, take a risk, and create a new exciting and difficult game that can become the standard for pool competition. I always made big posts saying I wanted the 15 ball rotation for a point a ball and races to 75 points or so, but at this point I would be giddy if all tournaments simply switched to 10-ball even.
I agree with you and Pete Lafond both, you can leave the tables alone if we get a game that challanges the players instead.
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Your idea is good. It makes the game harder instead of the tables. The pool rooms are making the game less fun for beginners also by tightening the pockets. But your suggestion would let nine ball and eight ball still be played by beginners and 10 ball or rotation by the pros. I still consider running three racks of 15 ball rotation in a row on a bar table my best acomplishment. I really like 15 ball if played one point per ball and not the 15 wins like nine ball or 61 points wins like in ball point rotation. 10 ball would probably be the best change for the time being and leave the pockets alone. I think push out two foul would be better for 15 ball than one foul as it is too easy to play safe early in the game.Celtic said:
Tight Pockets
I think you should try to shoot straighter! Can't believe someone is whinning about losing to someone because the pockets were so tight that he couldn't make a ball and the other guy shot so straight that he was making every thing he shot at. Listen to what you are saying and maybe you can see why In rolling on the floor laughing because of the irony of your statement.---Smitty
I think you should try to shoot straighter! Can't believe someone is whinning about losing to someone because the pockets were so tight that he couldn't make a ball and the other guy shot so straight that he was making every thing he shot at. Listen to what you are saying and maybe you can see why In rolling on the floor laughing because of the irony of your statement.---Smitty
woody_968 said:
I carry a plastic gauge so i can measure the pockets when I go to the different rooms. I could never understand why anyone would want to make the pockets on a table tighter...unless he or she wants to gamble. If that's the case, the issue at hand has nothing to do with the size of the pockets.
PoolMouse
sjm said:
SJM,
From the fiction and non-fiction I have read, I always assumed that the prevalent custom (in the 20' through 40's at least) was to pay by the rack. As recently as the late 60's at the Hawk's Nest in Pittsburgh I believe it was still $1 a rack (and a tip if you wanted the rack boy to rack 'em up for you). Anyone else remember this???
Everywhere else I have ever played it has been on the clock (since late 60's).
I categorically reject ANY attempt to make pool easier or quicker. We, in the U.S., already live in an excessively "quick and easy" culture to begin with and that is slowly compromising our future - in terms of pool talent (look to Asia) and everything else.
What a lot of people seem not understand is that what makes things "popular" and what produces TV-time are marketing fads and nothing else. It is arbritary. I don't care how you tweak it, pool's popularity or lack thereof will depend exclusively on the arbitrariness of large marketing corporations.
It could be 4 inch pockets: pocketing balls will be marketed as feats of rare skill and talent. Laymen will watch in awe and make Archer their idol for each rack he gets out of.
It could be 6 inch pockets: pool will be marketed as a runout sport, where high numbers rather than high difficulty-level will be highlighted. Archer will again be made an idol for stringing 13 racks together.
Whether an activity is hard or easy, it can be made popular if you make use of powerful marketing tools.
Because of the above reasons, I think it is fatally wrong to change pool with laymen in mind. That has already been done over time and without success. Make pool quicker and easier and, not only will you be unable to attract the lay public, you will lose the hardcore lovers of the game as well. Oh, and please run that 9 ball out of here.
What a lot of people seem not understand is that what makes things "popular" and what produces TV-time are marketing fads and nothing else. It is arbritary. I don't care how you tweak it, pool's popularity or lack thereof will depend exclusively on the arbitrariness of large marketing corporations.
It could be 4 inch pockets: pocketing balls will be marketed as feats of rare skill and talent. Laymen will watch in awe and make Archer their idol for each rack he gets out of.
It could be 6 inch pockets: pool will be marketed as a runout sport, where high numbers rather than high difficulty-level will be highlighted. Archer will again be made an idol for stringing 13 racks together.
Whether an activity is hard or easy, it can be made popular if you make use of powerful marketing tools.
Because of the above reasons, I think it is fatally wrong to change pool with laymen in mind. That has already been done over time and without success. Make pool quicker and easier and, not only will you be unable to attract the lay public, you will lose the hardcore lovers of the game as well. Oh, and please run that 9 ball out of here.
You need to note I am not suggesting making pool easier. For the who knows how many times: I am suggesting not making pool harder. Leave the pockets alone and quit trying to make them tighter. I am not saying open them to 5 plus inches. I am simply saying leave the pockets standard and that would be good for pool all aroundlewdo26 said: