Time Warp - Spinning cue ball

Just a bump.
Check this out if you haven't seen it. I thought the reverse spinning cue ball would come back after only 1 or 2 revolutions. Wrong!
 
Interesting. I suppose it depends on how far back the draw shot is attempted. Also depends on how far back you want the cue to go. Nice find.
 
The type and condition of the Felt will certainly have some effect on it also.

What a great video. For all you "object ball spinners" check this video out. In this case, the object ball has NO transfered spin. Can anyone tell me why????

Thanks......SPF=randyg
 
randyg said:
The type and condition of the Felt will certainly have some effect on it also.

What a great video. For all you "object ball spinners" check this video out. In this case, the object ball has NO transfered spin. Can anyone tell me why????

Thanks......SPF=randyg
Click to expand...

The balls were probably super waxed or Sigel is right-there is no spin transfer ever. If you believe that-then i dont think you can believe in 'cling' or 'skid' either.
 
Nostroke said:
The balls were probably super waxed or Sigel is right-there is no spin transfer ever. If you believe that-then i dont think you can believe in 'cling' or 'skid' either.
Click to expand...

And maybe because it was hit really firm? :confused: Didn't look like the OB had any time to cling to the CB.

Adam <-- believes in spin transfer :smile:
 
Randy,

Could it be because we are talking about top spin?

I noticed in the stop shot with side spin that the nine ball is just starting to spin as it goes out of the frame, so there is some spin transfer, just not much.

In the draw shot, because the object ball is traveling forward, the only "spin" that it can pick up will come from the friction of the cloth. The collision immediately sends the object ball "sliding" down the table. The friction of the cloth causes it to start to "roll". I don't think the object ball can actually "spin" on top of the cloth from collision induced spin.

It can spin on top of the cloth when it is "rolling" down the table and hits another ball full. Its forward momentum is transferred completely to the other ball and it stops, but it still has rotational momentum and will continue to spin. Once the other ball is gone, this spin will cause it to follow the other ball.

Anyway, that is how my brain understands it, right wrong or different!

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
randyg said:
... In this case, the object ball has NO transfered spin. Can anyone tell me why????
Click to expand...

It's hard to tell from the video if there's any transferred forward spin - the OB does start rotating forward right away, but it's undoubtedly almost all from cloth friction. I think there is a tiny amount of forward spin transferred to the OB, but it's such a tiny amount that it's immediately buried within the "natural forward roll" created by cloth friction.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
It's hard to tell from the video if there's any transferred forward spin - the OB does start rotating forward right away, but it's undoubtedly almost all from cloth friction. I think there is a tiny amount of forward spin transferred to the OB, but it's such a tiny amount that it's immediately buried within the "natural forward roll" created by cloth friction.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...


Good answer!
 
Ralph Kramden said:
Slow motion video of a backward spinning cue ball.
On a draw shot the ball spins at least 5 revolutions in place before it even starts to draw.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV28zAJKGtg
Click to expand...
For actually studying draw effects, that video is lousy. For one thing, they don't use a constant frame rate during each clip. Also, I saw only one sequence in the draw sequences in which you could hope to do some measurements on the screen, but they varied the slo-mo during the interesting part. The speed variation within a single clip is very confusing.

For gee-whiz general audience entertainment, the video was great.

On the Jacksonville Project video, the cue ball does more or less as expected from physics for a draw shot: It stops nearly dead with some slight forward motion at impact. The draw takes with continuous acceleration, first stopping the forward motion and then gradually speeding up in reverse as the cue ball's speed increases more or less uniformly in time.
 
I thought it was pretty clear that on the stop spin shot that the 9ball was starting to rotate.

I would think that with that extreme amount of sidespin that less spin would be transferred but I also figure that I am wrong :embarrassed2:
 
I believe Dr. Dave has all the necessary equipment to study the physics of pool...I also think he's a physics professor. Maybe somebody could ask him to experiment with the concepts of throw, skid, spin, etc
 
Bob Jewett said:
For actually studying draw effects, that video is lousy. For one thing, they don't use a constant frame rate during each clip. Also, I saw only one sequence in the draw sequences in which you could hope to do some measurements on the screen, but they varied the slo-mo during the interesting part. The speed variation within a single clip is very confusing.

For gee-whiz general audience entertainment, the video was great.

On the Jacksonville Project video, the cue ball does more or less as expected from physics for a draw shot: It stops nearly dead with some slight forward motion at impact. The draw takes with continuous acceleration, first stopping the forward motion and then gradually speeding up in reverse as the cue ball's speed increases more or less uniformly in time.
Click to expand...

I'm a Gee-Whiz kinda guy. ;)

Seriously wouldnt it be great to have that kind of video gear and a few top players with different strokes for a month to shoot as much video as possible. I bet alot of good stuff would come from that. Also varing the humidity, I bet on a wet table the CB wouldnt sit there for 3 or 4 revolutions before the spin caught on. In vegas on new cloth the CB sits there for alot more that 5 turns before it grabs-the delayed draw shot is very cool looking.
 
frankncali said:
I thought it was pretty clear that on the stop spin shot that the 9ball was starting to rotate.

I would think that with that extreme amount of sidespin that less spin would be transferred but I also figure that I am wrong :embarrassed2:
Click to expand...


it showed that the farther the OB travels the more spin it will have, right at the moment of impact its just sliding,
 
frankncali said:
I thought it was pretty clear that on the stop spin shot that the 9ball was starting to rotate.

I would think that with that extreme amount of sidespin that less spin would be transferred but I also figure that I am wrong :embarrassed2:
Click to expand...


Bingo Frank. That cueball was spinning way too fast to transfer any negligible sidespin to the object ball.....SPF=randyg
 
Randy,


it also seems to me that with mud balls or dirty balls one would get alot more spin transfer b/c the friction between the balls is higher, new shiny, super smooth plastic balls are just too slipery. It would be great to "See" different balls in video like this to compair such theorys or prove/disprove them!!!!
 
frankncali said:
...I would think that with that extreme amount of sidespin that less spin would be transferred ...
Click to expand...
You're right. On a dead straight shot shot, 36% or 5/14'ths of the cueball's spin is "transfered" when the cueball has a moderate spin rate. For some of the balls that have been tested, "moderate" means about half of maximum spin. So for these balls (surface conditions) the object ball comes away with about 18% of maximum cueball spin.

Jim
 
Fatboy said:
Randy,


it also seems to me that with mud balls or dirty balls one would get alot more spin transfer b/c the friction between the balls is higher, new shiny, super smooth plastic balls are just too slipery. It would be great to "See" different balls in video like this to compair such theorys or prove/disprove them!!!!
Click to expand...


Agreed. Condition of Felt also. I think that Dr. Dave has this type of video. I think they prove just what this thread is posting about. Not all spin transfers usefully and a good player understand his conditions....SPF=randyg
 
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