Tip Contact Time

Okie

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I imagine it is going to take a Dr Dave or Mr Jewett to answer this one.

Is the time that the tip is in contact with the cue ball the same with a decelerating stroke and accelerating stroke?

Was just driving home and got to thinking...

Thanks in advance!

Ken
 

Bob Jewett

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... Is the time that the tip is in contact with the cue ball the same with a decelerating stroke and accelerating stroke? ...
There is a very slight increase in the time of contact for an accelerating stroke. That's down in the 1% region, which is much smaller than the difference due to harder/softer tips which can be in the 50% region of decreased/increased contact time. Contact time also decreases for a faster shot but not with a direct proportion. If I recall correctly, if you double shot speed, the contact time reduces by about 20%.
 

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So, a soft tip & a slower accelerating stroke will result in an increased tip contact time over a hard tip at a faster accelerating speed?
 

robsnotes4u

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So, a soft tip & a slower accelerating stroke will result in an increased tip contact time over a hard tip at a faster accelerating speed?

I was just talking to Marc O. Who double dipped SVB in Sioux Falls a week ago. He owned the pool hall in Sioux Falls and knows SVB very well. Anyway he was explaining some of the shots Shane does and how he hits through the ball smoothly where it seems as if the tip is in contact longer. It might not be. Shane plays with a hard tip. Marc said it isn't something you can probably teach. Wish I knew the answer.


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I was just talking to Marc O. Who double dipped SVB in Sioux Falls a week ago. He owned the pool hall in Sioux Falls and knows SVB very well. Anyway he was explaining some of the shots Shane does and how he hits through the ball smoothly where it seems as if the tip is in contact longer. It might not be. Shane plays with a hard tip. Marc said it isn't something you can probably teach. Wish I knew the answer.


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Rob,

I am fairly sure I understand. I do the 'same' thing even though I am using a soft tip. It's a longer than needed stroke at a much slower controlled acceleration that borders on deceleration. I even do one soft shot that my bridge hand oscillates up & down in tandem with my practice strokes & the final hit. I have tried to get the 'same' results without doing that but can not.

Disclaimer: I did not mean to compare myself to SVB. I just at times shoot a similiar shot.

Regards,
 

Okie

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There is a very slight increase in the time of contact for an accelerating stroke. That's down in the 1% region, which is much smaller than the difference due to harder/softer tips which can be in the 50% region of decreased/increased contact time. Contact time also decreases for a faster shot but not with a direct proportion. If I recall correctly, if you double shot speed, the contact time reduces by about 20%.

Interesting. I assumed the difference in accelerating and decelerating would have to be measured in milliseconds or even smaller increments. I would have never thought the difference in contact time between a soft and hard tip to be so much.

Increased contact time is a good thing, right?

Ken
 

Okie

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Rob,

I am fairly sure I understand. I do the 'same' thing even though I am using a soft tip. It's a longer than needed stroke at a much slower controlled acceleration that borders on deceleration. I even do one soft shot that my bridge hand oscillates up & down in tandem with my practice strokes & the final hit. I have tried to get the 'same' results without doing that but can not.

Disclaimer: I did not mean to compare myself to SVB. I just at times shoot a similiar shot.

Regards,

Bridge hand oscillating?

Tails! ;)

j/k

But that does sound pretty tricky to me...I prefer simple.

Ken
 

sparkle84

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Might be a dumb question but what does all this tip contact time have to do with playing better pool?
 

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Mr. Ken,

Perhaps oscillating was not the most appropriate word. Perhaps 'flexing' up & down would have been a better description. But yes, timing the hit with a bridge that is 'flexing' up on a soft shot with inside english accomplishes, for me, a result that I have not been able to duplicate exactly without the flexing bridge.

It's not that complicated but it is certainly, for me, only a specialty shot. I guess the effect might be similiar to hitting the ball high with a super soft 'sawing stroke' which I never use. I'm a piston stroke guy.

Thanks for getting me to clarify that. 'Oscillating' does seem complex unless super low frequency is attached to it.

Best Regards,
 

robsnotes4u

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Rob,

I am fairly sure I understand. I do the 'same' thing even though I am using a soft tip. It's a longer than needed stroke at a much slower controlled acceleration that borders on deceleration. I even do one soft shot that my bridge hand oscillates up & down in tandem with my practice strokes & the final hit. I have tried to get the 'same' results without doing that but can not.

Disclaimer: I did not mean to compare myself to SVB. I just at times shoot a similiar shot.

Regards,

I would think it would take a lot of practice. Does you wrist stay firm through your stroke


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I would think it would take a lot of practice. Does you wrist stay firm through your stroke


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That's interesting. I never really thought about it. Normally I play with a very loose/flexible wrist. But now that you mention it, I would say that my wrist does 'tighten up' in order to control the cue speed through the ball.

I never practiced to develop this shot, I naturally gravitated to this type of stroke because the shots just seemed to call for them. I doubt that anyone taught SVB this type of stroke. I would bet that he just learned it on his own as well. As you said earlier I think it would be difficult to relay in words & actually teach this to someone. One may be able to get one started on it, but I think it would be an ah ahh type moment when they would just feel it. I would say that I think it might come from a feeling of wanting to put the cue ball on the OB so that the CB is also is put where you want to put it.

Regards,
 
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Scott Lee

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sparkle84...Good point...and the answer is nothing! The dwell time is around 1/1000th of the second (in comparison, a reflex eye blink takes about 4/1000the of a second)...give or take a few ten thousandths of a second. All it means is that longer followthroughs have no bearing on the outcome of the shot (since the CB is gone as soon as your tip strikes it). Knowing that may result in learning how to play better.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Might be a dumb question but what does all this tip contact time have to do with playing better pool?
 

Okie

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Mr. Ken,

Perhaps oscillating was not the most appropriate word. Perhaps 'flexing' up & down would have been a better description. But yes, timing the hit with a bridge that is 'flexing' up on a soft shot with inside english accomplishes, for me, a result that I have not been able to duplicate exactly without the flexing bridge.

It's not that complicated but it is certainly, for me, only a specialty shot. I guess the effect might be similiar to hitting the ball high with a super soft 'sawing stroke' which I never use. I'm a piston stroke guy.

Thanks for getting me to clarify that. 'Oscillating' does seem complex unless super low frequency is attached to it.

Best Regards,

You give me too much credit for being serious. :)

I was just funning with you!

Ken
 

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You give me too much credit for being serious. :)

I was just funning with you!

Ken

I knew you were not chopping me off at the knees, but I'm sure there were others scratching their heads about an 'oscillating bridge hand'.:eek:

Best Regards,
 
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Okie

Seeker
Silver Member
sparkle84...Good point...and the answer is nothing! The dwell time is around 1/1000th of the second (in comparison, a reflex eye blink takes about 4/1000the of a second)...give or take a few ten thousandths of a second. All it means is that longer followthroughs have no bearing on the outcome of the shot (since the CB is gone as soon as your tip strikes it). Knowing that may result in learning how to play better.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

You should proofread your posts before spewing Scott.

First you say my question means nothing. Then you say it might lead to a bit of enlightenment.

Did you have anything constructive to add?

Ken
 

FranCrimi

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I liked your original question a lot, Ken, and I too was interested in what Bob's answer would be. It makes me wonder about the relationship between good stroke timing and tip contact time. We may find some interesting answers in researching the same questions in golf, since the issues are the same ---- striking a non-moving ball.

I've often wondered whether an extended follow-through, particularly with a slower stroke may actually result in multiple hits on the cb rather than one hit of longer duration.
 

Okie

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Silver Member
I liked your original question a lot, Ken, and I too was interested in what Bob's answer would be. It makes me wonder about the relationship between good stroke timing and tip contact time. We may find some interesting answers in researching the same questions in golf, since the issues are the same ---- striking a non-moving ball.

I've often wondered whether an extended follow-through, particularly with a slower stroke may actually result in multiple hits on the cb rather than one hit of longer duration.

I knew the time was small. I am just trying to gain a better understanding of what is required for a good stroke. I have played around with shortening the follow through and it feels pretty good. I get a little jerky with my stroke though if I am not careful.

Thank you for your comments Fran!

Ken
 
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