Tip Glue

Cue Crazy

Cue Crazy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know We've had these discussions before in the past Guys, but I recently decided to try the 454, and I hate to say it, but I do'nt feel as impressed as others seem to be with It, and it seems alot like over the counter type ca's such as the Duro, and loctite gels. Don't get Me wrong I think It's alright, but just does'nt seem to be the single answer to solving all glueing problems. It does seem thicker then the loctite gel in stores though, which is nice.
The first tip went fine, even cut, burmished, and shaped it with no problems, then I decided to apply alittle side pressure with My thumb to see how strong the bond was, and the thing popped right off. I sanded the tip flat, faced the ferrule good, and applied only to one side as the instructions said to do.

Second time it held up well, but not sure what the difference was, things I did different were- sanding, then prepping the tip with ca "the Searing method", I also did that to the ferrule and slightly refaced It, I applied glue to both sides when putting the tip on this time, and I did use accelerator during the glueing. This worked so well that I would have ripped the tip before the glue would break down from the sideways pressure test.

Anyway I have a question, and I'm wondering what you guys think, If there was one single thing out of these differences I made, which one would you think made the most difference?

Also, I got some of the atlas gel that they sell at half the price of the 454, wondering if anyone has tried It and how they felt about the results? It looks to be repackaged, but I would have no idea who the manufactuar is on It.

While on the subject, wondering if anyone has had mixed results with Pred. ferrules. I realize in general that they are alittle more to deal with, due to the material not liking to stick, but I have had success with most in the past, using the same method everytime. I have however had one player, that after hitting with the tip for the first time It popped right off, this happend twice, but only with the same shaft & person. Keep in mind I tip almost as many pred's as I do standard shafts and they usually hold up fine using the same methods and same glue, just this one is giving me a hard time. Is It possible that different batches of the same ferrule material could be more waxy or whatever the issue is that makes them not want to stick? I'm kind of stumped here. The shaft in question is a 314.
I have pretty much tried, and used most of the methods others do until I found one that works on these ferrules, then I'm having this issue with the one shaft. Is there a glue that I'm not aware of, or would I be better off just using gorilla glue? I have used it as a last resort before and it worked. I have also used it on inserts that kept pulling loose with epoxies, and the gorilla glue did the trick on those also. Matter of fact I'm thinking about using It on all My inserts.

Anyway any thoughts would Be very apprietiated, Thanks Guys,:)

Greg C
 
Cue Crazy said:
I know We've had these discussions before in the past Guys, but I recently decided to try the 454, and I hate to say it, but I do'nt feel as impressed as others seem to be with It, and it seems alot like over the counter type ca's such as the Duro, and loctite gels. Don't get Me wrong I think It's alright, but just does'nt seem to be the single answer to solving all glueing problems. It does seem thicker then the loctite gel in stores though, which is nice.
The first tip went fine, even cut, burmished, and shaped it with no problems, then I decided to apply alittle side pressure with My thumb to see how strong the bond was, and the thing popped right off. I sanded the tip flat, faced the ferrule good, and applied only to one side as the instructions said to do.

Second time it held up well, but not sure what the difference was, things I did different were- sanding, then prepping the tip with ca "the Searing method", I also did that to the ferrule and slightly refaced It, I applied glue to both sides when putting the tip on this time, and I did use accelerator during the glueing. This worked so well that I would have ripped the tip before the glue would break down from the sideways pressure test.

Anyway I have a question, and I'm wondering what you guys think, If there was one single thing out of these differences I made, which one would you think made the most difference?

Also, I got some of the atlas gel that they sell at half the price of the 454, wondering if anyone has tried It and how they felt about the results? It looks to be repackaged, but I would have no idea who the manufactuar is on It.

While on the subject, wondering if anyone has had mixed results with Pred. ferrules. I realize in general that they are alittle more to deal with, due to the material not liking to stick, but I have had success with most in the past, using the same method everytime. I have however had one player, that after hitting with the tip for the first time It popped right off, this happend twice, but only with the same shaft & person. Keep in mind I tip almost as many pred's as I do standard shafts and they usually hold up fine using the same methods and same glue, just this one is giving me a hard time. Is It possible that different batches of the same ferrule material could be more waxy or whatever the issue is that makes them not want to stick? I'm kind of stumped here. The shaft in question is a 314.
I have pretty much tried, and used most of the methods others do until I found one that works on these ferrules, then I'm having this issue with the one shaft. Is there a glue that I'm not aware of, or would I be better off just using gorilla glue? I have used it as a last resort before and it worked. I have also used it on inserts that kept pulling loose with epoxies, and the gorilla glue did the trick on those also. Matter of fact I'm thinking about using It on all My inserts.

Anyway any thoughts would Be very apprietiated, Thanks Guys,:)

Greg C
Click to expand...

I do about 1000 tip repairs a year. I ONLY use DURO GEL. Soft, med, hard layered, all kinds NO PROBLEMS. I use a Willard tip machine for about 90% of my tips. I put the glue on the tip & rub it in with the tip of the tube. You have to wait til the glue penatrates the leather. Don't be afraid to sand the back til it's not slick anymore. Then twist the tip back n' forth til it's covering both surfaces. press it together for about 60 seconds, trim it & play with it. What am I doing that you're not? I'm not bragging, I'm just curious as to what your doing differently. If you are trimming the end of the shaft with the lathe, maybe you're getting it TOO smooth. If you sand the tip, but the ferrule end is too smooth, you will have a problem...JER
 
> I've been using the thin CA to seal the backs for a while now,and really like it. I was having a problem with the Loctite I get locally,thinking it was just a bad batch. I've been using Satellite City glues since and have only had one tip out of 40 or so come off,that bottle of glue was 6 months old and was replaced. Tommy D.
 
Cue Crazy said:
I know We've had these discussions before in the past Guys, but I recently decided to try the 454, and I hate to say it, but I do'nt feel as impressed as others seem to be with It, and it seems alot like over the counter type ca's such as the Duro, and loctite gels. Don't get Me wrong I think It's alright, but just does'nt seem to be the single answer to solving all glueing problems. It does seem thicker then the loctite gel in stores though, which is nice.

Anyway any thoughts would Be very apprietiated, Thanks Guys,:)

Greg C
Click to expand...

I use the Loctite super glue gel that you get in the stores. I mark it with the date that I purchased it and throw it out after two months. The first thing I do after facing is to coat the ferrule with Loctite 770 primer. The primer is designed to promote adhesion on the plastic. Once I started using the primer the vast majority of my problems with Predator and imported ferrules disappeared. I then coat both the tip and the ferrule with the gel. I let the tip sit for about 30 seconds after puting the glue on it to ensure it doesn't all soak in. If needed I reapply some glue. This has been working well for me for a few years.
 
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Loctite 454 is the best but it gets hard fast.
I just tried Loctite 409. It sets in 60 seconds or so, it grabs pretty well too.
I've had nothing but problems with Loctite super glue gel. With CA coating on the tip too. Will never go back to it again.
 
Thanks everyone,lot of good idea's and thoughts here.

I've had a few problems on and off before like anyone, but usually have good luck with them since finding a method that works well, even on the preds, this one shaft just does'nt want to stick for some reason. That's what prompted me to breakdown and get the 454 in the first place.

I usually do the tip prep as some mentioned, and that normally solves any issues. I guess I need to start doing the ferrule faces too. I like the primer Idea, so may try that out.

Jerry you hit on something that has crossed My mind, and may be right, I sharpen My own tool bits now, even clean them with thinner afterwards, so they cut really clean, and possible it's facing too smoothly, I'm not sure. It's nice when facing a joint, but might not be so good for glueing a tip to a ferrule, so you may be on to something there, and that may be one of the things I did that helped in prepping the ferrule, so it may have helped when I first tried the 454 out. Another thing I thought about is I use the tailstock and live center to clamp them with, possible I am using too much pressure and squeezing too much glue out, but I still can't figure out why the other 314's and z's are holding up with no issues, and just this guy's 314 is doing It. I would'nt say I'm in the thousands, but I have had as many as 100 tip jobs in a month before including the house cues, altough My average for tip jobs is more in the 20 to 50 a month range. I really take My time with them too and don't rush anything, so I'm not the fastest, but I have a high percentage of luck "not to brag though ofcoarse", and it just drives me nuts to even have one pop off. Much less to the same guy twice, that just eats Me up. I can except the fact that no one is perfect, and the odds are if you do enough of them, eventually it will happen, but for it to happen to the same person, same shaft twice strikes me as odd, and does'nt add up.

Another thing mentioned was twisting the tip. I sometimes do that too, infact I did that on the shaft in question. Maybe I picked that up from glueing pvc up and burning It in. That's another thing I was starting suspect I may be doing wrong, since it's not really the same as glueing 2 lenths of pipe together, but Ca does get hot, so it made sense to me, and for the most part I have had no problems when I did that. I guess that had me wondering If some glues burn in better then others, and if there was something Out there I was not aware of.

Usually the duro gel works fine for me, and I have even used the loc-tite gel with success, but i do aggree it's not 100% either. It's not as thick. It does seem to kick faster though.

Things I know about what I did on this paticular shaft,the faces were square, and I never touched them, so no rocking or oils from the skin. I also did everything as I would normally on a pred. ferrule.

I was told the other guy in town won't even touch them anymore since he melted one of the ferrules down, so I'm happy I never had that problem thanks to being forewarned by a few here, and it's just a tip coming off.

There's alot of preds around here, so the amount of tips I've put on them are easily in the hundreds atleast, so I'm not someone that's maybe only done 5 or 6, again not bragging at all, just trying to put alittle perspective on why this is eating me up enough to ask you guys here why would this happen on the same shaft twice, and not the majority of others I've done once. It just struck Me as odd, and was curious if anyone else had experienced It. Maybe It's just a fluke.

Anyway alot of good imput here, I really apprietiate The info from everyone, a few things mentioned in here I have used or do use, but a few I have'nt used before, so I will give them a shot sometime to see how they work for me.

Thanks again guys,:) Greg C
 
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