Tip Installation issue?

Cuemaster98

Cuemaster98

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi Guys,

I was asked if this would be an issue for a cue repairer? So I thought I post my method for installing tip on my CM360-2 shaft to get feedback.

I understand this method would present some challenges for Do it yourself players but this design make the shaft plays super solid.

This is how my Molavia tip are now installed on my CM360-2 shaft. 5/16 drill bit (2-3mm) on layer tip is used. This installation method may help re-enforce the integrity of the shaft (prevent split) while helping to reduce mass for a solid natural 360 LD hit.

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The next repair person will flat face it and put a new tip on. HAHAHA, oops? I would think they would know better. The problem for a DIY repair person, would be getting that hole flat and the proper depth. And possibly getting all the old tip off without gouging that little tenon. Maybe they could order extra tips already bored from you, or include an extra tip?
 
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Bad engineering, hype and gmick stuff. Makes no sense. You will have problems with that set up. Get a ferrule.
 
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scdiveteam said:
Bad engineering, hype and gmick stuff. Makes no sense. You will have problems with that set up. Get a ferrule.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, bad idea unless there is only one person ever changing the tip and after that, maintaining the wall of the i.d. will always change. The tip wears down and SPLIT, there goes the shaft.
 
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Well, i'll give you props for trying to be new and innovative, but would tend to agree that this may present more problems than benefits.

i don't see it being anymore hype and gimmick than the 14 new "hype" threads that have come out on the super duper rare ferrules....just sayin
 
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The new Diamond house cues have a tip installed similar to this. They have a plastic insert that goes into the tip and then onto a ferrule.
Ill takes some pics.
 
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I was told the reason for this is it prevents the tip from mushrooming, I don not see how it would do that
 
Thanks guys for the comment so far. I guess you can call it gimmick or laziness but I tried these shafts and really likes how it plays. Just seem to be a little more solid than if the tip was installed flat.

With this method, I guess the player need to remind the repairer that there is reverse pilot and the tips needs to be bore/drill (5/16).

Theoretically, there is a leather ferrule on this shaft even though it only 2-3mm. If someone decide to reface it, I guess the remaining layer of the tip will be the ferrule so any other tip can be installed on top.

Yes, was planning to offer my Molavia hard pre-drill but if you have a lathe...it take 5 second. You guys should try it for yourself and see how good it plays.

Regards,
Duc.
 
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"This is how my Molavia tip are now installed on my CM360-2 shaft. 5/16 drill bit (2-3mm) on layer tip is used. This installation method help re-enforce the integrity of the shaft while helping to reduce mass for a solid natural 360 LD hit. "

In what way does this method of tip installation reenforce the integrity of the shaft?
 
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Nice, thanks for the pics.

I just don't like to add phenolic pad or plastic as I think it would change the feel of the hit on the shaft.

I actually thought this was a good idea for cue repairer as you don't want the player to change the tip themselves :) and come back to you for the work to be done properly.

I can see how having a pad or extra piece would complicate the repair but don't think my method would be too much work for any repairer if they are told before doing the repair.

Duc.

will8834 said:
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I was told the reason for this is it prevents the tip from mushrooming, I don not see how it would do that
Click to expand...
 
Hi,

I was thinking that it may help with keeping the shaft from splitting due to excess force or miscue similar to having a pad. The 2-3mm ferrule would help with dispersing the impact to help prevent split. I must have made over 100 of these ferrule less shafts and to date only one was split by a friend of mine (MIO) who has a 12mm tip that I installed with no ferrule.

I guess I should change this statement as it's an assumption on my part.

Regards,
Duc.

Arnot Wadsworth said:
"This is how my Molavia tip are now installed on my CM360-2 shaft. 5/16 drill bit (2-3mm) on layer tip is used. This installation method help re-enforce the integrity of the shaft while helping to reduce mass for a solid natural 360 LD hit. "

In what way does this method of tip installation reenforce the integrity of the shaft?
Click to expand...
 
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JoeyInCali said:
LEATHER splits a lot easier than laminated wood .
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And sense the bottom of the tip is bored for the shaft "tenon", the tip is weakened even more. The side wall of the tip around the tenon will be glued to the side of the tenon, and the bottom layer of the tip collar will be glued to the shoulder of the shaft. With the bottom intact layer glued to the tenon face, the tip will not be able to flex the way it normally does, and delamination between the collar and the layer glued to the tenon face is likely IMO.

The idea of a collar is to surround the shaft tenon with something stronger than the wood. This configuration is encouraging the wood to split and encouraging the tip to fail both at the same time, IMO.

Kelly
 
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Hi Duc

As a cue repair guy, if this came to me for replacement, unless I knew of this construction, my first step would be to obviously remove the old tip which would more than likely remove your small pilot. Assuming the owner wanted the tip on without a ferrule, my next obvious step would be to at least put a pad down first and then the tip. I know I would really question the thought process of why it was originallly put on that way with the small pilot and I doubt I could come up with a valid reason.
Now I do have one of your cues with this same shaft but I never imagined it would look like this underneath.

Walter
 
Cuemaster98 said:
Thanks guys for the comment so far. I guess you can call it gimmick or laziness but I tried these shafts and really likes how it plays. Just seem to be a little more solid than if the tip was installed flat.

With this method, I guess the player need to reminder the repairer that there is reverse pilot and the tips needs to be bore/drill (5/16).

Theoretically, there is a leather ferrule on this shaft even though it only 2-3mm. If someone decide to reface it, I guess the remaining layer of the tip will be the ferrule so any other tip can be installed on top.

Yes, was planning to offer my Molavia hard pre-drill but if you have a lathe...it take 5 second. You guys should try it for yourself and see how good it plays.

Regards,
Duc.
Click to expand...

What you are essentially doing is reducing the thickness of the tip. You may get an immediate feel of a broken in tip by doing this, particularly if you are rounding the end off the same amount you normally would. You have fewer layers of leather on top of the shaft tenon now, so it may feel nice when you hit with it...for a short while until something fails.

Kelly
 
will8834 said:
picture.php


I was told the reason for this is it prevents the tip from mushrooming, I don not see how it would do that
Click to expand...

If you take two tips the same thickness and bore one and then slap both on top of a tenon, the one bored has fewer layers left remaining. As you play with both of them, some compression will happen. As the layers compress, they spread/mushroom. So, more leather to compress might equal more mushrooming.

Kelly
 
Hi Walter,

My older shafts were installed normally. Just been testing this method for over a month now.

Regards,
Duc.

Cuetips said:
Hi Duc

As a cue repair guy, if this came to me for replacement, unless I knew of this construction, my first step would be to obviously remove the old tip which would more than likely remove your small pilot. Assuming the owner wanted the tip on without a ferrule, my next obvious step would be to at least put a pad down first and then the tip. I know I would really question the thought process of why it was originallly put on that way with the small pilot and I doubt I could come up with a valid reason.
Now I do have one of your cues with this same shaft but I never imagined it would look like this underneath.

Walter
Click to expand...
 
Cuemaster98 said:
Hi Walter,

My older shafts were installed normally. Just been testing this method for over a month now.

Regards,
Duc.
Click to expand...

Duc,

To be honest I can't think of any advantages maybe less mass at the tip end but when I think of all those people that wait until the tip is way down before changing..it seems problematic.

Best regards, Mario
 
Cuemaster98 said:
Hi Walter,

My older shafts were installed normally. Just been testing this method for over a month now.

Regards,
Duc.
Click to expand...

What do you notice that is different with this system compared to the std install you were doing?
It there any difference on the draw or spin on the cue ball?
 
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