Tip & Ivory Ferrule Cost?

[Arnot Wadsworth]

Are you OK? What ever prompted you to go into the cue business that you seem to hate so much, second only to the seeming disdain for your customers and everyone else in the trade? Like I said it is a business decision of yours not to do any repairs, but if the landscape is so covered with guys butchering cues maybe you should do repairs as a public since you are the only one who knows how to do them right.

Thank you I am fine. Are you OK. Are you a Cuemaker? What do you do for a living?

I love cuemaking. I build great cues and I can do any repair that I elect to do.

You seem to be amused with your "Devil's Advocate" position but there are professional cuemakers here in this forum whose livelihood is based on their cuemaking abilities and their ability to provide service to their customers. It seems to me that you are trying to make everyone think that any cuemaker that charges more then you think they should is a rip off when in fact your idea of cost has nothing to do with reality.

Most of the cuemakers that I know take their cuemaking very seriously and try to do the best job they can for the money. However, there are many repair persons that do not know anything about cue repairs, do poor work and charge very low prices. They get lots of work and do lots of damage. You can probably get a $20.00 ivory ferrule and a tip from one of them.

Please answer my questions - I answered your questions

 

[TellsItLikeItIs]

That's a strange statement, simple repair work, tips ferrules, rewraps, etc., are the gravy of the cue business, easy money and a very good dollar per hour return.

For a maker that is more concerned with the quality of their cue making, rather than the almighty dollar, that's really not such a strange statement. Yes, there is a good ROI in repairs. But often times you're having to fix something that an incompetent screwed up. Personally, I don't care anything at all about fixing someone elses mistakes. I sympathize with the customer that needs the repair corrected (done by the incompetent), but I'm not willing to allow a $10, $20, or $70 repair bite me on the tail. "They" can bring it back to the person that screwed it up

I don't know too many cue makers who would want to see all their repair work dry up.

I "pulled the plug" myself ! I'll do repairs on the cues I make, and most often at no charge. No imports, no production cues!

If my customer is in a pinch, and he owns a cue made by a competent maker, (of which at least 3 post here), I occasionally make exceptions...But not often.

my 2 cents (now where's my change)

 

[macguy]

Thank you I am fine. Are you OK. Are you a Cuemaker? What do you do for a living?

I love cuemaking. I build great cues and I can do any repair that I elect to do.

You seem to be amused with your "Devil's Advocate" position but there are professional cuemakers here in this forum whose livelihood is based on their cuemaking abilities and their ability to provide service to their customers. It seems to me that you are trying to make everyone think that any cuemaker that charges more then you think they should is a rip off when in fact your idea of cost has nothing to do with reality.

Most of the cuemakers that I know take their cuemaking very seriously and try to do the best job they can for the money. However, there are many repair persons that do not know anything about cue repairs, do poor work and charge very low prices. They get lots of work and do lots of damage. You can probably get a $20.00 ivory ferrule and a tip from one of them.

Please answer my questions - I answered your questions

What was your question?

 

[macguy]

For a maker that is more concerned with the quality of their cue making, rather than the almighty dollar, that's really not such a strange statement. Yes, there is a good ROI in repairs. But often times you're having to fix something that an incompetent screwed up. Personally, I don't care anything at all about fixing someone elses mistakes. I sympathize with the customer that needs the repair corrected (done by the incompetent), but I'm not willing to allow a $10, $20, or $70 repair bite me on the tail. "They" can bring it back to the person that screwed it up

I "pulled the plug" myself ! I'll do repairs on the cues I make, and most often at no charge. No imports, no production cues!

If my customer is in a pinch, and he owns a cue made by a competent maker, (of which at least 3 post here), I occasionally make exceptions...But not often.

my 2 cents (now where's my change)

Again that is just your business decision and not one you even need to justify, but one that I doubt is shared by many other cue makers. Arnot by the way seems to say he doesn't do repairs because he can't make enough money doing them that's why he doesn't do them. You two seem to have different opinions on whether repairs are profitable, who's right? I think they are, regardless if a cue maker chooses to do them or not and since most cue makers are starving according to Arnot, it would be a good idea for them to add repairs to their business plan if they don't already do them. There seems to be contradictions in this thread.

 

[TheBook]

Nice comments, Is this where we compare the prices on Auto parts and food again. How about the medical industry.

Right on Mike

This relates to the story about the mechanic that charged $100 to repair a car. The customer protested saying all you did was hit the motor with a hammer and I could have done that. The mechanic replied yes you could have but I knew where to hit it.

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

Again that is just your business decision and not one you even need to justify, but one that I doubt is shared by many other cue makers. Arnot by the way seems to say he doesn't do repairs because he can't make enough money doing them that's why he doesn't do them. You two seem to have different opinions on whether repairs are profitable, who's right? I think they are, regardless if a cue maker chooses to do them or not and since most cue makers are starving according to Arnot, it would be a good idea for them to add repairs to their business plan if they don't already do them. There seems to be contradictions in this thread.

I keep asking you if you are a cuemaker and if not what you do for a living but you refuse to answer me.

I do wish that you would refrain from putting words in my mouth. I have never said that I did not do repairs because there was not enough money in it - I said "I don't do repairs". The reason I don't do repairs is that I have more than I can do building cues and I don't think it is fair to my cue customers to stop what I am doing and put somebody's repair in front of my cue customer's work. Most of the repair work that I have seen comes from imported cues. I will occasionally work on an American made cue that belongs to one of my cue customers but I don't work on junk for anybody. And I don't do it for the money but as a service to my customers. Very few American made custom cues ever need repair and then it is usually only the tip.

Also, I never said that most cuemakers are starving. You said that when you mis-quoted me. You just want to stir up trouble. The cuemakers that I know are not getting rich either building cues or doing repairs. They are honest and work hard for their money. They are in fact underpaid for the most part when you consider the investment they have made in time learning their craft, inventment in equipment, supplies and wood. I know that every time I take my car in for repair and they charge me $60 - $75 to plug it into their computer.

Are you a cuemaker and if not what do you do for a living?

 

[Michael Webb]

Right on Mike

This relates to the story about the mechanic that charged $100 to repair a car. The customer protested saying all you did was hit the motor with a hammer and I could have done that. The mechanic replied yes you could have but I knew where to hit it.

That was perfect.

 

[macguy]

That was perfect.

What would you say that story illustrates?

 

[Taiko]

I started this thread in order to get an estimate of what I should expect to pay for an ivory ferrule and Moori tip. However, it has gone far beyond that and I've noticed something that I would like to comment on.

If a cuemaker wishes to make repairs or not for whatever reason he or she may have, from cost to the Heat winning the pennant, it is their decision. And I as a consumer have every right to take my business elsewhere. I consider myself to be a loyal customer. I like to show my gratitude and appreciation to a manufacturer by developing a relationship. I will be more apt to purchase a cue or make a custom order just to contribute to their sales in order to help keep them in business and also keep me getting a quality product at a fair price.

With that being understood; I would not go to a cuemaker, for any reason, who makes me feel like my business, not matter how small, is not worth the effort. I'm not a cuemaker, but I believe that most cuemakers want people to buy their cues. I believe that when I buy a custom cue, I am also developing a relationship which hopefully will outlast the transaction. I want to be able to communicate with the cuemaker any concerns I may have regarding my purchase as well as any praises I may have. It is only through this communication that we can both achieve a mutually positive exchange. If the cuemaker wants my business, he has to earn it and I in turn have to earn his trust as well. He has to know that I am not looking to steal from him by trying to get his work at eBay prices and I have to know that I should reciprocate the gesture by bring my business back time and time again. Unless or course he is too too busy to give me the time of day. In that case, there is always the door and the Blue Book, which is full of many fine, quality and honost cuemakers.

Just my 2¢

 

[macguy]

I keep asking you if you are a cuemaker and if not what you do for a living but you refuse to answer me.

I do wish that you would refrain from putting words in my mouth. I have never said that I did not do repairs because there was not enough money in it - I said "I don't do repairs". The reason I don't do repairs is that I have more than I can do building cues and I don't think it is fair to my cue customers to stop what I am doing and put somebody's repair in front of my cue customer's work. Most of the repair work that I have seen comes from imported cues. I will occasionally work on an American made cue that belongs to one of my cue customers but I don't work on junk for anybody. And I don't do it for the money but as a service to my customers. Very few American made custom cues ever need repair and then it is usually only the tip.

Also, I never said that most cuemakers are starving. You said that when you mis-quoted me. You just want to stir up trouble. The cuemakers that I know are not getting rich either building cues or doing repairs. They are honest and work hard for their money. They are in fact underpaid for the most part when you consider the investment they have made in time learning their craft, inventment in equipment, supplies and wood. I know that every time I take my car in for repair and they charge me $60 - $75 to plug it into their computer.

Are you a cuemaker and if not what do you do for a living?

I was referring to your joke about the cue maker winning the lottery. As far as what I do, in the early 70's I was a union crane operator, the last time I worked for anyone , since then I have owned a couple of pool rooms and different business. Now I move in and out of retirement depending on if a project presents itself that I find of interest. My father came to the US from Italy in 1908 and like all immigrants owning land has always been what they strive to do.

The family business has always been land development since the 1920's, we all have done it even my sister. There has been a machine shop on our property since I was young kid. I can build cues but strictly as a hobby, I've fooled with cues since I was a teenager.

You know in one of your posts you gave an example of a cheap repair man doing an ivory ferrule for $20.00. In another you mentioned having a cue repairman cutting down a ferrule on one of your cues and causing you to have to sell the cue for a huge loss. Why didn't you just replace the ferrule and sell the cue for it's proper value? I know it wouldn't make as good a story, but if we are going to have a conversation please use real world examples and no gross exaggeration.

 

[TellsItLikeItIs]

Again that is just your business decision and not one you even need to justify, but one that I doubt is shared by many other cue makers. Arnot by the way seems to say he doesn't do repairs because he can't make enough money doing them that's why he doesn't do them. You two seem to have different opinions on whether repairs are profitable, who's right? I think they are, regardless if a cue maker chooses to do them or not and since most cue makers are starving according to Arnot, it would be a good idea for them to add repairs to their business plan if they don't already do them. There seems to be contradictions in this thread.

You're correct, I do not need to justify it, Nor will I attempt to. As a recent poster said, it's (with me at least) a matter of "loyalty" as much as anything else. I'll take excellent care of my customers, and they come first!

I believe you have misinterpreted Arnot, and myself as well. It isn't a matter of "profibility". If you are involved in cue making, and "profibility" is your first concern, it's entirely possible that you are in the wrong field of endeavor.

 

[macguy]

You're correct, I do not need to justify it, Nor will I attempt to. As a recent poster said, it's (with me at least) a matter of "loyalty" as much as anything else. I'll take excellent care of my customers, and they come first!

I believe you have misinterpreted Arnot, and myself as well. It isn't a matter of "profibility". If you are involved in cue making, and "profibility" is your first concern, it's entirely possible that you are in the wrong field of endeavor.

I agree making money in business is a funny thing, it is sort of like someone trying to write a best seller, you can't do it on purpose. You just do the best you can, hopefully in a business you really enjoy and the money will come, or it won't not everything is a success. Just making money should not be the reason one does what they do. You are more likely to be a success at something you love so much you would be willing to do for nothing. I think this is the case with cue makers.

 

[HIRUN526]

I prefer Ivory ferrules. From my experience the price of an Ivory ferrule installed ranges on average from $ 60.00 to $ 75.00 plus tip. Moori's
$ 35.00 to $ 40.00. I don't have an issue paying a cuemaker these prices. It's not just about materials,overhead, and time.. I'm paying for the cuemakers knowledge and " Talent". I have found over the last 30 years that the cuemakers I have dealt with have been more than fair on their pricing. I do not have any complaints with repair prices I have paid. Truth be told most cuemakers are probably under paid.

 

[Michael Webb]

I started this thread in order to get an estimate of what I should expect to pay for an ivory ferrule and Moori tip. However, it has gone far beyond that and I've noticed something that I would like to comment on.

If a cuemaker wishes to make repairs or not for whatever reason he or she may have, from cost to the Heat winning the pennant, it is their decision. And I as a consumer have every right to take my business elsewhere. I consider myself to be a loyal customer. I like to show my gratitude and appreciation to a manufacturer by developing a relationship. I will be more apt to purchase a cue or make a custom order just to contribute to their sales in order to help keep them in business and also keep me getting a quality product at a fair price.

With that being understood; I would not go to a cuemaker, for any reason, who makes me feel like my business, not matter how small, is not worth the effort. I'm not a cuemaker, but I believe that most cuemakers want people to buy their cues. I believe that when I buy a custom cue, I am also developing a relationship which hopefully will outlast the transaction. I want to be able to communicate with the cuemaker any concerns I may have regarding my purchase as well as any praises I may have. It is only through this communication that we can both achieve a mutually positive exchange. If the cuemaker wants my business, he has to earn it and I in turn have to earn his trust as well. He has to know that I am not looking to steal from him by trying to get his work at eBay prices and I have to know that I should reciprocate the gesture by bring my business back time and time again. Unless or course he is too too busy to give me the time of day. In that case, there is always the door and the Blue Book, which is full of many fine, quality and honost cuemakers.

Just my 2¢

Tap, Tap, Very well said, This is the way it has always been done, and it's a good method for both parties.

 

[TellsItLikeItIs]

I agree making money in business is a funny thing, it is sort of like someone trying to write a best seller, you can't do it on purpose. You just do the best you can, hopefully in a business you really enjoy and the money will come, or it won't not everything is a success. Just making money should not be the reason one does what they do. You are more likely to be a success at something you love so much you would be willing to do for nothing. I think this is the case with cue makers.

And I believe many actually do their best. Also, I'm sure we all understand there are no guarantees to success (especially in this business). Just FYI, part of the reason I discontinued doing repairs was that I felt I could not properly serve my customer base, and still handle the occasional "walk in" (no disrespect intended by the term). Being faced with a decision to serve my customer, or the gentleman (or gentlelady) that walked in with a Walmart cue needing a tip, I feel I made the correct decision. I recognize the fact that the same person owning the Walmart cue could very well be a future customer, and I do/would treat them appropriately. I would never be rude or short with a person visiting my shop. The net of it is, a line had to be drawn, serve my customer, or occasionally have to turn them away. I would rather lose the repair dollars.

Being perfectly honest, I do have a love for the craft, but I don't love it so much that I would do it for nothing. The first cue maker that says that to me will be asked to make me a cue for nothing

I am however, willing to invest my time, and money, in structure and equipment, that allows me to do what I really want to do. If I ever retire from making cues, (that will be when they put me in the ground) it will be my third retirement. Possibly that will tell you a little bit about how strongly I feel about the trade. It's honest, it's rewarding, you meet a lot of great people, and ya make a couple bucks in the process. Only thing better is a good day fishing

 

[TellsItLikeItIs]

I started this thread in order to get an estimate of what I should expect to pay for an ivory ferrule and Moori tip. However, it has gone far beyond that and I've noticed something that I would like to comment on.

If a cuemaker wishes to make repairs or not for whatever reason he or she may have, from cost to the Heat winning the pennant, it is their decision. And I as a consumer have every right to take my business elsewhere. I consider myself to be a loyal customer. I like to show my gratitude and appreciation to a manufacturer by developing a relationship. I will be more apt to purchase a cue or make a custom order just to contribute to their sales in order to help keep them in business and also keep me getting a quality product at a fair price.

With that being understood; I would not go to a cuemaker, for any reason, who makes me feel like my business, not matter how small, is not worth the effort. I'm not a cuemaker, but I believe that most cuemakers want people to buy their cues. I believe that when I buy a custom cue, I am also developing a relationship which hopefully will outlast the transaction. I want to be able to communicate with the cuemaker any concerns I may have regarding my purchase as well as any praises I may have. It is only through this communication that we can both achieve a mutually positive exchange. If the cuemaker wants my business, he has to earn it and I in turn have to earn his trust as well. He has to know that I am not looking to steal from him by trying to get his work at eBay prices and I have to know that I should reciprocate the gesture by bring my business back time and time again. Unless or course he is too too busy to give me the time of day. In that case, there is always the door and the Blue Book, which is full of many fine, quality and honost cuemakers.
Just my 2¢

Taiko, That was very well spoken, and you have made very valid points. Excellent post!!!!!

 

[macguy]

And I believe many actually do their best. Also, I'm sure we all understand there are no guarantees to success (especially in this business). Just FYI, part of the reason I discontinued doing repairs was that I felt I could not properly serve my customer base, and still handle the occasional "walk in" (no disrespect intended by the term). Being faced with a decision to serve my customer, or the gentleman (or gentlelady) that walked in with a Walmart cue needing a tip, I feel I made the correct decision. I recognize the fact that the same person owning the Walmart cue could very well be a future customer, and I do/would treat them appropriately. I would never be rude or short with a person visiting my shop. The net of it is, a line had to be drawn, serve my customer, or occasionally have to turn them away. I would rather lose the repair dollars.

Being perfectly honest, I do have a love for the craft, but I don't love it so much that I would do it for nothing. The first cue maker that says that to me will be asked to make me a cue for nothing

I am however, willing to invest my time, and money, in structure and equipment, that allows me to do what I really want to do. If I ever retire from making cues, (that will be when they put me in the ground) it will be my third retirement. Possibly that will tell you a little bit about how strongly I feel about the trade. It's honest, it's rewarding, you meet a lot of great people, and ya make a couple bucks in the process. Only thing better is a good day fishing

I didn't mean "for nothing" literally just as an example of how much you can enjoy what you do. I doubt most successful writers or artists started out with an intent of being a success. They just found something that took hold of them and they would have to write even if no one ever read their words. My wife writes, she just finished a story about a cat we found during hurricane Wilma, We never found the owner and now have another cat. The story is great I think much of what she writes could be published. She writes about everything that happens and puts it into a story. This has nothing to do with being published, she can't help she has to write. That's what I mean "You would do it for nothing".

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

In another you mentioned having a cue repairman cutting down a ferrule on one of your cues and causing you to have to sell the cue for a huge loss. Why didn't you just replace the ferrule and sell the cue for it's proper value? I know it wouldn't make as good a story, but if we are going to have a conversation please use real world examples and no gross exaggeration.

The above was a real world example. When the ferrule was damaged the tip was replaced and now the shaft was 1/2 inch shorter then its matching shaft. Also the cue did not play the same. Also the shaft that was shortened was the best shaft in the first place. Third - it is called honesty. I would not add a dowell and have a new ferrule installed even though it would look right I know the difference.

If I had done the damage that other cuemaker did to my cue I would have replaced the shaft with one from the original cuemaker at my expense and with a large apology.

 

[TellsItLikeItIs]

I didn't mean "for nothing" literally just as an example of how much you can enjoy what you do.

I understood. Likewise, I didn't mean to suggest that I make cues just to have something to do. My wife sees to it that I have plenty to occupy my spare time.

 

[macguy]

The above was a real world example. When the ferrule was damaged the tip was replaced and now the shaft was 1/2 inch shorter then its matching shaft. Also the cue did not play the same. Also the shaft that was shortened was the best shaft in the first place. Third - it is called honesty. I would not add a dowell and have a new ferrule installed even though it would look right I know the difference.

If I had done the damage that other cuemaker did to my cue I would have replaced the shaft with one from the original cuemaker at my expense and with a large apology.

I had a Rambow cue with a loose joint and took it to a cue maker. This was like 30 tears ago. You know what he did, he replaced the joint with a SS joint and new collar destroying the value of the cue. I still have I will take a picture of it, you won't believe it. I do know what you are talking about. Some people you don't know how their minds work.

I was at a church sale and found a whole collection of Nancy Drew and Hardy boys books. I asked how much the books were and the lady took them up to the pricing person. When she returned she handed me the books. I was in shock, the pricing person had taken a magic marker and wrote the price on the front of every book, now they were worthless. Everyday it seems you are amazed by people, what is in their brains.

I am afraid as I think about it you are right, there are not many people I would completely trust to work on a cue I cared about and I can see someone willing to pay almost anything to be sure it is done right. Tim Scruggs told me he has a few guys that UPS him their shafts for new tips they are afraid to have anyone else work on them.