Tip Softness/Effect on Draw

[garczar]

Is there such a thing as 'Coefficient of Bullshit'?? Just curious.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

We know @dr_dave has proven the slightly higher hit is best for power draws to maximize rpm at contact with the object ball, but iirc the explanation was that it minimized friction loss of rpm with the higher ball velocity.

I believe that's correct. So why doesn't hitting even closer to center, which (the argument goes) produces more speed and more spin, work even better?

pj
chgo

 

[DeadStick]

I believe that's correct. So why doesn't hitting even closer to center, which (the argument goes) produces more speed and more spin, work even better?

pj
chgo

Diminishing returns as contact gets higher - like starting a car in a higher gear, the higher contact doesn’t have enough leverage/torque to create spin due to the weight/inertia of the CB.

Just to be clear, I’m not arguing for the existence of this gear ratio effect in draw shots. I’m just curious if it might play a small part in the higher-than-miscue-limit performance of power draw shots.

My own argument against this hypothesis is that, unlike a gear, the CB does not have a fixed, immovable center, so striking it even a little closer to center adds more linear velocity than additional rpms.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

My own argument against this hypothesis is that, unlike a gear, the CB does not have a fixed, immovable center, so striking it even a little closer to center adds more linear velocity than additional rpms.

Yes, but (as I said above) in a straight draw shot all linear velocity is negated by the CB's head-on collision with the OB - so we should then see only the effect of the "greater RPMs" produced by hitting close to center ball.

But it doesn't happen that way - why?

pj
chgo

 

[DeadStick]

Yes, but (as I said above) in a straight draw shot all linear velocity is negated by the CB's head-on collision with the OB - so we should then see only the effect of the "greater RPMs" produced by hitting close to center ball.

But it doesn't happen that way - why?

pj
chgo

I’m not arguing for greater rpms by hitting close to center ball. I’m saying it could be nuanced out around the miscue limit.

 

[Tennesseejoe]

People will tell you that tip has nothing to do with draw, or tip brands all draw the same and its just a getting used to type of issue or stroke issue but here's the thing. I've always disagreed with this.

It is my experience of which i've been playing pool all of my life since I was a little kid, today I am 45. TIP is the most important thing when it comes to a cue second to this is the shaft. And I will tell you that there are certain tips that draw the cueball much more comfortably and easily than other tips but here's the kicker. Sometimes even the same brand/type don't draw the cueball or put spin the same way, afterall its leather and leather to leather are different. Its true that if you buy the same tip/brand/softness it will feel similar but it wont play the same when applying maximum offset spin/draw etc.

Even if its layered. Here's what I do....I install a tip, try it with my maximum offset draw, if it miscues 3 times in one day, I go ahead and change it to the same brand, and do that over and over until I find a good one....and when I find a good one where I try it with my maximum offset draw shots which I know for fact that it shouldn't be a miscue. Then I keep that TIP--- and I go a year with that tip with ZERO MISCUES. So I know for fact that the miscues arent a stroke issue or a chalk issue, I know 10000% for fact that its the tip. Because I know my draws and that I shouldnt get miscue with the offset i'm applying.

As I said......I install the same exact tip that I like, if it miscues 2-3 times where I know 1000% its not stroke issue because I know my draws. Then I change it!! simple as that, some other ppl would think its their stroke but I know for me it isnt....When I find the good tip (Good leather by luck) then that tip will never miscue to me and I can apply maximum draws. Also to clarify this experiment/experience of mine, again as I said I go years without single miscue.

What is your favorite tip?

 

[smoochie]

What is your favorite tip?

In order.
1- Zan Hybrid Max. (Looking to buy few now but cant find cause its out of stock everywhere).
2- Navigator blue impact Max.
3- Tiger Sniper (The old version without the black line).

 

[dr_dave]

Tip Softness/Effect on Draw​

For those interested, this topic is covered in great detail here:

cue tip hardness effects​

 

[dr_dave]

We know @dr_dave has proven the slightly higher hit is best for power draws to maximize rpm at contact with the object ball

For those interested, the proof and a demonstration can be found here:

long power draw advice​

 

[Bob Jewett]

For those interested, the proof and a demonstration can be found here:

long power draw advice​

And for those who have Virtual Pool, you can see it there too. Turn on tracking for a long, straight draw shot and only vary the height on the cue ball.

 

[snookered_again]

maybe there is a big difference between a draw shot where the object ball is half way across the table and a shot similar to what a carom player might make, where it may be a light tap with backspin and more of a downward angle. would the harder tip be more suitable in the first example? what about the type of chalk?

 

[garczar]

maybe there is a big difference between a draw shot where the object ball is half way across the table and a shot similar to what a carom player might make, where it may be a light tap with backspin and more of a downward angle. would the harder tip be more suitable in the first example? what about the type of chalk?

neither one matters. make any shot you want with hrd/soft tip and any brand of chalk.

 

[CESSNA10]

On the other hand I am 74 years old and when I was 25 to 30 I could actually draw the cue ball table length and farther if I was within 3 feet of the object ball. Now 5 or 6 feet is the norm. If I am much further 1 or possibly 2 feet is about it.

Ditto for me at age 77