Tips for improving spin on Cue Ball

Mojo - hope you got some help here... the arguing is pretty funny but listen to scott and pat. There is no weird secret to adding spin like snapping the wrist or pressing down or any of that junk. You just need to hit the cue ball in the correct place with a good level stroke.

Draw gives a lot of players fits and there are thousands of threads about getting better draw. But the big secret is very simple - as with sidespin, there is a sweet spot on the CB where you get maximum draw. If you hit this spot, you WILL draw as much as possible for the amount of force you put into the shot. That spot is about halfway between center and edge.

It is literally impossible to hit this sweet spot and fail to draw the ball, unless you hit the cue ball so softly that it's rolling (rather than sliding) by the time it arrives at the object ball.

Here is the drill to fix your draw:

Get one of the object balls (not the cue ball) and set it near the middle of the table, between the side pockets. Set up a 2nd ball so you have an easy straight in shot into the side.

Get way down so that your eyes are just over the rail and rotate the first object ball (let's say it's the 5 ball) so that the 5 is facing you. If you're using centennials then the 5 has a black ring around it. Your goal is to make the cue tip hit the bottom of that black ring.

Now chalk the crap out of your cue and wipe the 5 ball clean. Then make your bridge and try to make sure the tip is pointing at that part of the black ring. Stroke the ball in. Pick up the 5 ball (whether you got good draw or not) and look carefully around that ring. You should see a blue smudge from the chalk. This will show you how far off the sweet spot you were. Wipe clean and set 'em up again. You'll be surprised to find that your tip has somehow migrated north a lot of the time. It's a common issue. You'll also be surprised to find that if you got almost anywhere below center at all, you still get draw, even though you didn't really hit the spot. So just focus on not letting the tip jump up as you stroke.

If you already can consistently draw the ball up to 2 feet but want to be able to draw 5 or more feet, just set the drill up so that you're shooting diagonally into the corner and then repeat, adding force every time. Check for that chalk smudge.
 
mojowrkn said:
I have been thinking of getting a LD shaft it's just a lot of money for me right now so I am wondering if it is worth the investment? Will it help with draw or just with deflection? It seems logical to me that if the shaft deflects less upon contact with the cue ball that more of the energy would be transferred to the ball resulting in greater spin. That's just a theory though.
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BE CAREFUL with this. Many players confuse deflection. I thought I mentioned this in my first reply to you, but I will go over it again as there has been a a lot of static on this channel lately...

Something has to give when you hit the ball. So, if your shaft is very stiff (thick, straight taper, laminated, pie sectioned, cored WHATEVER), then the cue ball will deflect. I personally like a stiffer (solid wood) shaft with an ivory ferrule these days, and the cue ball deflects (often called squirt) but I deal with it. I miss a lot too...:(

The other option is to have what is called a 'whippy' shaft. In this case, the SHAFT deflects, and the cue ball stays truer to the aim line (it will still deflect a bit, but not a ton). Some feel that due to this, the tip stays in contact with the ball longer too. I don't know about all that. In the old days, you went with a longer pro taper, and thinner section. the trend lately seems to be stiffer shafts (I prefer a 13-13.25 myself) but I think the trend will change back to 12.5 or maybe even less here pretty soon. My personal opinion is that a stiff shaft is more difficult to shoot with, because the cue ball is deflected of the aim line which seems counter-intuitive to someone who doesn't study the mechanics closely...

mojowrkn said:
I shoot with a Mcdermott Double Diamond 21 oz, 2 years old, stock shaft with a elkmaster soft tip.
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What is your tip diameter? What is the tip radius? I believe you can pull the weight bolt out of all the McDermotts, and I strongly suggest doing that. a 21 oz cue is quite heavy! If you can get that down to 19 or so, you will be happy with its performance and the control you will have. The balance point is also moved forward in the cue when you do this. Some think this is good; others think this is bad. I think it is a good thing personally.

My old Joss East was 17.5 oz and had a 12.5 shaft with ivory ferrules and I played some damn good pool with that cue back then. (this was after I cut it back down to the 29 inches I ordered, from the 30 inches they gave me for some reason, and I pulled the weight bolt out completely.)

So, pull the weight bolt
Radius the tip at a dime

See how that does before you buy another shaft. As long as your tip is thick enough right now, these are basically free trial items for you (you will need a new tip if it is not thick enough to radius at a dime- I suggest a medium tip if you replce it). And give it an honest try- not an hour and give up... A few weeks to get acclimated to the new cue weight.

Then let us know how you make out.:thumbup:
 
mojowrkn said:
Hi All,

I am unhappy with the amount of spin I am getting on the cue ball. I have been working on my stroke as I know that is the most important aspect for imparting spin. Does anyone have suggestions for my stroke? I know to follow through and keep my cue level. Also suggestions about shafts and tips? I have been thinking of getting a predator shaft, comments on that?

I get a decent amount of spin now but I play against some guys who can really put juice on the ball and I just can't seem to get there. Shot making is my strong point but cue ball placement especially when I need alot of spin is my weakness. Any help/advice is appreciated!
Click to expand...

This advice may come with a flurry of condemnation BUT.... I think you can get all of the spin you will ever need or want from using an OB-1 shaft/cue. I think when using the OB-1, the cue ball squirts less and thereby provides more swerve (in effect seemingly providing you with more spin). I will be using an OB1 side by side with a 314-2 in the near future and will be making comparisons for my own personal use.

JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
...the cue ball squirts less and thereby provides more swerve (in effect seemingly providing you with more spin).
Click to expand...

Do you mean because the CB approaches the rail at a slightly different angle?

BTW, it's the same amount of swerve, but it might look like more because the CB starts out at a straighter angle. So both of the "increases" (more swerve, more spin) are "visual misinterpretations" of the decrease in squirt.

pj
chgo
 
Not real sure you'll actually get to this post, but here goes.

The one thing that may help more than anything else, is to have a relaxed stroke hand.

The trap is usually trying to hit something harder to get more spin, but in doing so, you tense up your stroke hand. This can have just the opposite effect.

Relax your hand, and let the stick do what it does. Transfer energy to the point on the cueball that your tip contacts.

(BTW.. this works for any spin, and no spin alike.)
 
Adding nothing

Patrick Johnson said:
Chill out; it was a joke - but it's a pretty poor choice of diagrams for a draw shot.

pj
chgo
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I'm not sure why you post in this thread, you add nothing to the discussion. The diagram isn't meant to be performed, it's only to get an estimate from him on how much he can currently draw the cue ball (he would know after all). We are giving advice to somebody who might already be drawing more than any of us! I simply want to know what his current level of cue ball spin control is. This wasn't posted for any other reason, it's not a lesson, it's not a trick shot, it's not a my stick is bigger than your stick BS post.

So, after you've finished arguing with everyone here, trying to show everyone how smart (or funny) you are, maybe we could get back to the main purpose of this thread.
 
Cue Guru said:
So, if your shaft is very stiff (thick, straight taper, laminated, pie sectioned, cored WHATEVER), then the cue ball will deflect.
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Not to confuse the issue, but stiffness has little (if anything) to do with cue ball deflection. A more accurate statement is "if your shaft has a high endmass, the cue ball will deflect more than a lower endmass shaft.

-td
 
PJ,

Did you ever give any thought as to whether or not LD shafts have an effect on swerve amount or delay due to how much it causes the cueball to vertical squirt into / away from the cloth at the same offset, power, and elevation?
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Do you mean because the CB approaches the rail at a slightly different angle?

BTW, it's the same amount of swerve, but it might look like more because the CB starts out at a straighter angle. So both of the "increases" (more swerve, more spin) are "visual misinterpretations" of the decrease in squirt.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I was talking about the CB and the path that it takes as soon as it is struck. (nothing to do with the rail)

Yes, it may be the same amount of swerve but the effect is that the cue ball travels a different path than with a traditional cue when side spin is applied.

So yes, you are right as usual. You always have a better way of saying what I meant to say. hmmph!
Thanks,
JoeyA
 
JoeyA:
...the effect is that the cue ball travels a different path than with a traditional cue when side spin is applied.
Click to expand...

Sorry to be a nit about this, Joey, but I don't think that's true. With both sticks the CB starts off in the same initial direction (because the two sticks are pointed in different directions to make that happen) and swerves the same amount, so it takes the same curved path to its target.

I might have confused things by suggesting the CB would take a different path to a rail - my mistake.

pj
chgo

EDIT: Joey, "Eruditass" raised a point (above) about "vertical squirt" that I forgot to consider when thinking about this. It would only matter when hitting high or low on the CB, but it might make some difference in those cases for the path the CB takes with different cues.
 
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Eruditass said:
PJ,

Did you ever give any thought as to whether or not LD shafts have an effect on swerve amount or delay due to how much it causes the cueball to vertical squirt into / away from the cloth at the same offset, power, and elevation?
Click to expand...

I have pointed that same thing out in the past, but I didn't think of it in this context. Thanks for reminding me - I wish I had read your post before responding to JoeyA.

I think I hear some fried crow calling my name...

pj
chgo
 
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