Tips for shooting jacked up off the rail or over a ball

Research is a necessary part of science, look their credentials up.

What statements have you seen me state?

I am looking forward to your next post from Fantasy Land.





A
Oh, & as to your question as to what PBIA instructors know more science than me, I really have no idea, perhaps none.

Is Dr. Dave or Bob Jewitt a PBIA instructor?

Perhaps you do, but I would not know as I have seen you make some statements that do not indicate that.
 
Here we go again. The same old people bickering like grumpy old men over the same old pointless crap. This could've been a great thread with some really great info for others to test out.

To add to what I've already contributed...

I find it helps to have the cue contact the chest, and on more severe angles of attack the side of the torso. Helps with keeping the cue on line. I also find it easier to aim thick on the pot, for what ever reason I over cut these shots a little.

Most people miss these because of how they raise the cue. It starts out lined up perfectly but the button end goes off line as it's raised. I like to start flat with the cue but make sure my hip contacts my grip, then as I raise up and have my bridge set I simply pull my grip up towards my armpit, this, for my body type anyway, gets the cue perfectly on the line of aim.
 
Research is a necessary part of science, look their credentials up.

What statements have you seen me state?

I am looking forward to your next post from Fantasy Land.

Look forward to all you want.

Why would anyone converse with someone that basically calls them a liar & refers to them as being in "Fantasy Land"?

Where might anyone interested find a list of every PBIA Instructor's SCIENCE 'Credentials'?
 
You stated:

Is Dr. Dave or Bob Jewitt a PBIA instructor?

To which I responded that research is a part of science, look up their credentials, you did not ask for their science credentials nor did I expect or ask you to find them. Classic example of you reading into something that is not there. Did I have to say, look up their PBIA status. Really, is that where we have to go with you?

When did I basically call you a liar? I have not called you a liar yet, I would call you a troll though, a passive-agressive one to boot.

It is your behavior that creates all of the noise in threads that you participate in, well except for the pinup girl threads, since I guess there is not a lot of discussion in those. :cool:




Look forward to all you want.

Why would anyone converse with someone that basically calls them a liar & refers to them as being in "Fantasy Land"?

Where might anyone interested find a list of every PBIA Instructor's SCIENCE 'Credentials'?
 
I wasn't being sarcastic but figured my post would be ignored.

I would never try to use English with an elevated cue unless I was trying to curve the cue ball.

I suspect that a smaller diameter, flatter, hard tip (well chalked) would be best.
Since smaller diameter is lighter, it would also be LD by default.

I would give you an answer but it would only be my opinion based on my science education & nearly 50 years of experience.

To some on AZB that amounts to being invalid, unless of course it agrees with their opinion.
 
Shooting at an angle with my head much higher than it usually is, I found that I will often misjudge a cut. So if the cue ball is close to the rail and I am playing at a big angle I will first aim at level, move into position and then shoot -without- readjusting even if I feel like it. This readjustment is almost always bad.
 
Shooting at an angle with my head much higher than it usually is, I found that I will often misjudge a cut. So if the cue ball is close to the rail and I am playing at a big angle I will first aim at level, move into position and then shoot -without- readjusting even if I feel like it. This readjustment is almost always bad.

I'm generally a low head player & sort of do what you're saying here but never to the extent that I think your saying here.

I have just sort of bent 1/2 way down to look as I go into set up.

I like what you're saying here & I think it goes along with what Pidge said.
 
if you are shooting over a ball, try as hard as you can not to apply left or right English, I know it's simple but this will make the shot much easier, because of a simple reason that if you applied English while shooting over a ball, you will swerve the cueball alot , it will act just like a Masse Shot due to the way you are cueing on the cueball (angle of attack), imagine the way people Masse shots, thats how it looks when you shooting over a ball, so if you need to apply side spins, make sure to adjust accordingly because this is why most people miss when shooting over a ball and applying right or left spins, I usually try to shoot center ball, but if i had to apply right oe left spin, I will try to adjust for the swerve so it's almost like i'm not shooting at the ball at all (Depends on the OB distance ofcourse)
 
You stated:

Is Dr. Dave or Bob Jewitt a PBIA instructor?

To which I responded that research is a part of science, look up their credentials, you did not ask for their science credentials nor did I expect or ask you to find them. Classic example of you reading into something that is not there. Did I have to say, look up their PBIA status. Really, is that where we have to go with you?

When did I basically call you a liar? I have not called you a liar yet, I would call you a troll though, a passive-agressive one to boot.

It is your behavior that creates all of the noise in threads that you participate in, well except for the pinup girl threads, since I guess there is not a lot of discussion in those. :cool:
I don't know if you remember, but if you'll go over your past posts you'll find a few times when you stated your suspicion that both Rick and I get our jollies by watching Public television programs profiling primitive societies. I'm paraphrasing here. I forget your exact words; but, ....ugh....your view of our personalities led you to believe that we...ugh....only watch in anticipation of seeing bare - breasted teenage girls.
I was furious. I wrote the mods and told them it was outrageous that a fine fellow like like Rick be accused of such a thing. It was to no avail! Anyhow; everytime Rick posts a few more pin-up girl photos he gets deluged with posts complimenting him on his good taste. I hope this proves to you that he would never stoop so low as you suggest
Me?.........I've learning much about good taste from Rick. These days, when the desire arrives in me to gaze at the female form, I just head over to the non - pool related forum and see what me babealicious dish awaits me in his thread. I haven't watched one of those public televisin programs since May!
 
All I read here is your opinion. Such an inflated self worth you have." I know more science than you .... I probably know more science than most of the PBIA certified instructors." You know nothing about others backgrounds I wish you were in the science classes I taught.

Rick, playing and competing in pool for 30 years prior to becoming an instructor does does not count right?

:rolleyes:

The main subject? SCIENCE
 
You didn't have to, I was the only one who publicly disagreed with Duckie, the you quoted his response to me.

I know exactly what most means, do you know what passive-aggressive means?

Since few is the opposite of most, tell me who are the few PBIA instructors that know more science then you?

It has been obvious to me and some others for years what your tactics are. I just am not as vocal as most (again the opposite of few), because frankly, you are not worth it.

Looking forward to your next vacation.

Science again in your question.
 
Here is your question in nice big RED letters so you can see it!!

Now go do some research while I put you back on ignore.


As I've said, my post to Greg was not specifically with regards to your post or even the thread.

It was more to do with general responses to him by a select few.

Your post WAS similar in nature & perhaps did prompt me to make the post to him but I was not speaking specifically of you.

As to the rest of your post here, you're entitled to your opinion but you really know nothing about me.

Oh, & as to your question as to what PBIA instructors know more science than me, I really have no idea, perhaps none.

Is Dr. Dave or Bob Jewitt a PBIA instructor?

Perhaps you do, but I would not know as I have seen you make some statements that do not indicate that.

It's like some of you are really paranoid & read stuff into things that are not there & then go off on arrogant 'attacks'.

Your experience is yours & mine is mine & we disagree in some areas.

That does not mean that everything I post is about you or your 'profession' or sideline.

You Have a Good Evening.
 
Here is your question in nice big RED letters so you can see it!!

Now go do some research while I put you back on ignore.

Read the entire paragraph & keep it in full context.

Please DO put me BACK on ignore AGAIN.

That way you won't waste my time & the general readerships time when you incorrectly ASSUME that I was specifically referring to you when I was not & clarified that I was not.
 
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I would give you an answer but it would only be my opinion based on my science education & nearly 50 years of experience.

Science is more than just having memorized some rules and formulas. It requires the intelligence to have a true understanding of the concepts involved so that you know which formulas and rules actually apply, and how. A person with a science type mind also always has certain key attributes. A few of them are that they believe what can be definitively proven over anything else such as the way something "seems", or the way something is perceived, or how it looks, or what the anecdotal evidence is, or how you had hoped it would be, or how you had theorized it would be. And when something can't be proven, a science mind will always lean towards the theory that is supported by the preponderance of the evidence as opposed to something with less or no evidence supporting it. A scientific type mind is also smart enough to recognize when someone else has far more knowledge about a topic and/or far more intelligence and will defer to and accept what they are saying or at the very least have far less conviction and certainty about their own belief in light of it. This is not intended as an insult, but trust me when I tell you that the last thing any scientist would ever describe you as having is a scientific type mind or much scientific knowledge or understanding.

As for the experience, this is exactly where you go wrong. Experience is based on our perception, and our perception is often wrong. Experience is based on the way something seems, and things are often not as they seem, no matter how strongly or how obviously they may seem to you. You always trust the way you perceive things and the way that things "seem" to you over what can be scientifically proven to be otherwise (whether or not you have the intelligence to understand that proof) and this can and does lead you to being wrong all the time. Because of how notoriously inaccurate they are, the only time we should ever rely strictly or our perceptions and how things "seem" to us is when nothing else is available.

There are LOTS of pilots who are dead because they trusted what they thought they absolutely positively knew to be true based on their own senses and judgments and perceptions over the instruments in the plane which could scientifically measure and figure much more accurately and could prove otherwise. There are tons of cases where they thought they were right side up but they were actually upside down and didn't know it, and when they "pulled up" what happened is they actually dove their plane straight down into the ground. That is just one of the examples of how pilots are killed by trusting what they "know" from their perceptions instead of trusting what can be proven with something far more reliable than our own senses and experience and how things "seem" to us. Research spatial disorientation if you don't believe me because like everybody else, you will probably find it hard to believe you could ever be upside down and not know it.

Our perceptions are wrong all the time, literally many, many times a day. Every one of your senses deceive you, significantly, and often. Your problem is that you still choose to believe them even when it can be proven that they are wrong. Sometimes what you think you are doing is not what you are doing, and sometimes what you think is happening on a pool table is not what is happening at all. But yet for some reason you will argue to the death with people that are clearly many times more intelligent than you and have specific and intensive knowledge and training in the applicable area (generally math and physics when it comes to pool related things) because that's not how it "seems" to you based on your experience.

I swear you and many others on here would argue the details of nuclear fission with a nuclear physicist. You think because something "seems" some way to you based on your experience and perception that you must be right over the guys that could spot you 50 IQ points and have literally spent their lives doing very advanced study of the very topic you are debating and who tell you it can absolutely be proven (even if you don't have the intellectual capacity to understand the proof) that you are wrong about your perception and belief and how it "seems" to you. That level of arrogance and lack of self awareness just never ceases to amaze me and this site is absolutely full of it.

To some on AZB that amounts to being invalid, unless of course it agrees with their opinion.

It is true that sometimes people will rule your opinion invalid simply because it doesn't agree with their opinion, and that often makes them idiots too. But sometimes there are people who don't agree with your opinion because it doesn't agree with the actual facts which can be proven, and that makes you the idiot.
 
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Poolplaya9,
You're obviously a smart guy and I think that post was well intended; nevertheless, I think maybe you lack a complete perspective of the brouhaha that's been going on for some time around here among those of us who tend to flock to the "shot-making technique" threads.

I don't want to speak for Rick exactly, and he posts much more often then I; but, our thinking is usually very similar on these issues. Seeing as how I don't think he's an insomniac who sleeps with an i -Pad under his bed, lemme chime in.

This all started when duckie clamed that shooting from a high angle caused the cue tip to remain in contact with the CB longer than if shooting from a normal angle. Tony told duckie he didn't buy it, it didn't make scientific sense, and if he was going to make such claims, he should back them up with proof provided by sophisticated, time sensitive cameras.

Duckie told Tony he didn't need to prove it...he could feel it.

Now; if this was 99% of AZ posters telling duckie this, Rick IMO would not have rushed to duckies defense so stridently. In fact, IMO, Rick is uncertain which of the two is right. Agh....but this was not any ol' AZ poster. This was Tony from M.D. Tony is part of a fraternity of like minded current, former, or "Think they should be" instructors who roam the shot-making threads like police on horseback, chastiizing anyone who deviates from the traditional, the boring, and the status - quo..

Notice....I said "like minded." There are some fine instructors who contribute to AZ. Also; I for one do not wish to see all tradition discarded with. I don't own Mark Wilson's book, but there are too many posters who have found it to be a terrificly helpful to their game, for me not to believe it must be a fine, fine, book.

So starting with C.J Wiley, along with many others, including Rick and myself - we just have a little impatience...not with those who want to preserve the traditional methods of shot-making that have proved to make rock- solid sense; but with those who wish to preserve traditional methods of shot- making that have proven to be far less effective, when more innovative approaches have been brought to light.

I recently read a magazine article by a Catholic bible scholar who likes to travel from parish to parish giving talks and conducting question and answer sessions. He said he usually receives a fine reception, but there was one incident at a parish that really shook him. It was a well - to- do suburban parish. He started his talk and while making a reference to "Adam and Eve" being a fairy tale, a mini- riot broke out. Parishioners were aghast! Some wanted to know why they were never taught this in school. He said one guy sent him angry e-mails for weeks afterward.

Some of us feel like that priest every time we enter a shot-making thread.

So poolplya; duckie probably understands your theory about how our perception can trick us. He probably would have seen the sense in a posters skepticism that the tip remains longer on the CB if that poster had also said, "You know, I'm skeptical, but you could be right." Instead, he was chased down by a cop on a galloping horse, brandishing his baton; hence, duckies retort, and; hence, Rick's further retort.

Poolplaya.....Rick is not a " pure" science guy. He's also not a "pure" perception guy. He plays things by ear like a lot of us. When he was saying he knows a fair amount about science, he was saying that he knows enough to know what he doesn't know about science, as opposed to those who have less of a science education than he has and self-righteously claim that science is the "end all" and perception, feel, innovation, novelty, and all similar qualities can't be trusted.

So Poolplaya; as I said, you sound smart and you wrote the post with good intentions. You have a whole bunch of posts, but I think, maybe you post in many different types of threads. If you were hanging out almost exclusively in shot-making threads you'd know what I was talking about. I came over to AZ twenty nine months ago. I entered a shot-making thread and found myself in a war zone....I don't think there's a cease fire in sight!
 
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Elroy,

I have not participated in a shot making thread in months. In fact, the last time I had any interaction with Rick was back May during the infamous push/pull debate. I don't participate in any of the CTE debates because I don't feel qualified to do so, (unlike some). I tend to quip a one liner to lighten the mood because those threads do get intense.

I don't roam the forums on horseback looking to chatize anyone who deviates from the traditional. However when someone posts something that goes against known scientific evidence, and they have no evidence to support their claim. As a PBIA instructor I feel responsible to reply. The funniest thing about this, is that Duckie is well known to want to measure everything. Ask him his thoughts about hitting a ball with pocket speed. I wanted clarification, and video evidence. Since he is into minutia I figured he measured it.

In fact honestly I don't reply much about instruction any more (don't believe me review my posts) frankly getting into these "debates" with English! is really not worth my time or aggravation. I just as soon have him on ignore. Because these debates go down the same path as all of his interactions go. That has not changed in a few years and two bans.

You too, are no angel yourself so this is laughable that you are making excuses for Ricks behavior, Tell me have you ever apologized to Dr. Dave regarding Billiard U? If I missed it I will apologize to you in advance.

BTW hope you like your GC table now, if you recall my advice to you regarding your Minnesota Fats table was spot on correct.

Tony ---->Just another white knight riding in or horseback. :p




Poolplaya9,
You're obviously a smart guy and I think that post was well intended; nevertheless, I think maybe you lack a complete perspective of the brouhaha that's been going on for some time around here among those of us who tend to flock to the "shot-making technique" threads.

I don't want to speak for Rick exactly, and he posts much more often then I; but, our thinking is usually very similar on these issues. Seeing as how I don't think he's an insomniac who sleeps with an i -Pad under his bed, lemme chime in.

This all started when duckie clamed that shooting from a high angle caused the cue tip to remain in contact with the CB longer than if shooting from a normal angle. Tony told duckie he didn't buy it, it didn't make scientific sense, and if he was going to make such claims, he should back them up with proof provided by sophisticated, time sensitive cameras.

Duckie told Tony he didn't need to prove it...he could feel it.

Now; if this was 99% of AZ posters telling duckie this, Rick IMO would not have rushed to duckies defense so stridently. In fact, IMO, Rick is uncertain which of the two is right. Agh....but this was not any ol' AZ poster. This was Tony from M.D. Tony is part of a fraternity of like minded current, former, or "Think they should be" instructors who roam the shot-making threads like police on horseback, chastiizing anyone who deviates from the traditional, the boring, and the status - quo..

Notice....I said "like minded." There are some fine instructors who contribute to AZ. Also; I for one do not wish to see all tradition discarded with. I don't own Mark Wilson's book, but there are too many posters who have found it to be a terrificly helpful to their game, for me not to believe it must be a fine, fine, book.

So starting with C.J Wiley, along with many others, including Rick and myself - we just have a little impatience...not with those who want to preserve the traditional methods of shot-making that have proved to make rock- solid sense; but with those who wish to preserve traditional methods of shot- making that have proven to be far less effective, when more innovative approaches have been brought to light.

I recently read a magazine article by a Catholic bible scholar who likes to travel from parish to parish giving talks and conducting question and answer sessions. He said he usually receives a fine reception, but there was one incident at a parish that really shook him. It was a well - to- do suburban parish. He started his talk and while making a reference to "Adam and Eve" being a fairy tale, a mini- riot broke out. Parishioners were aghast! Some wanted to know why they were never taught this in school. He said one guy sent him angry e-mails for weeks afterward.

Some of us feel like that priest every time we enter a shot-making thread.

So poolplya; duckie probably understands your theory about how our perception can trick us. He probably would have seen the sense in a posters skepticism that the tip remains longer on the CB if that poster had also said, "You know, I'm skeptical, but you could be right." Instead, he was chased down by a cop on a galloping horse, brandishing his baton; hence, duckies retort, and; hence, Rick's further retort.

Poolplaya.....Rick is not a " pure" science guy. He's also not a "pure" perception guy. He plays things by ear like a lot of us. When he was saying he knows a fair amount about science, he was saying that he knows enough to know what he doesn't know about science, as opposed to those who have less of a science education than he has and self-righteously claim that science is the "end all" and perception, feel, innovation, novelty, and all similar qualities can't be trusted.

So Poolplaya; as I said, you sound smart and you wrote the post with good intentions. You have a whole bunch of posts, but I think, maybe you post in many different types of threads. If you were hanging out almost exclusively in shot-making threads you'd know what I was talking about. I came over to AZ twenty nine months ago. I entered a shot-making thread and found myself in a war zone....I don't think there's a cease fire in sight!
 
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