To all SPF students: Pix = 1000 words

randyg said:
[...]
Look at Efren's Finish position: Knuckles up, loose cradle, hand home and tip to target.
[...]
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing this Randy --and it's timely for me.

I'm starting a new student tonight. And I will start where I always start: at the end.

When my son was about 9 years old, he brought his brand-spankin-new, stiff, smells-like-new-leather, sparkling-clean glove to Little League practice, and with a huge grin on his face he held it up like a museum curator would a Ming Vase and proudly presented it to his coach for approval.

Coach grabbed it out of his hand, threw it down on the ground, kicked dirt on it, and stomped on it a few times. He then picked it up, placed a baseball firmly in its heart, and closed the glove snugly over the ball. He instructed Mike to dig a hole in the ground, tie the glove in position, and bury it over night.

That coach not only understood the importance of a perfect finish position, but he understood the importance of training the glove to feel at home there.

For that reason, I bury all my students overnight in their perfect finish positions. Haven't had one complain yet.
 
I thought some other SPF Instructors might sound off also. They all must be busy teaching.

Mike, can we golf yet? Water must be down??

Thanks Mike....SPF=randyg
 
randyg said:
I thought some other SPF Instructors might sound off also. They all must be busy teaching.

Mike, can we golf yet? Water must be down??

Thanks Mike....SPF=randyg
Click to expand...

The latest prediction is the water level will drop for several more days and then spring back up to maybe higher than it was before.

Looks like we in my neighborhood are raising our dike by a foot later this week.

Oh, and did I tell you the city's putting up a contingency dike that puts my neighborhood on the river side of it?

The water's down no to about the level of the slate on my table

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=fgf&gage=fgon8&view=1,1,1,1,1,1
 
randyg said:
I thought some other SPF Instructors might sound off also. They all must be busy teaching.
Click to expand...

Randy,

I may not be an SPF Instructor by ordination, but once I learned what the principals are that SPF stands for, I became "SPF" in practice. I now believe that your theories and methods are solid and reliable. They also set standards by which it can be certified that a person truly is an instructor. Without standards like these, instructors would have to devise their own theories and methods, but then that would leave people wondering what it is that the BCA "certifies" to be correct. Correct?

Please keep up the good work.

Roger
 
Roger

This Summer we will probably have a chance to meet. Maybe we can teach a class together, I would like that...SPF=randyg
 
For sale!

mikepage said:
The latest prediction is the water level will drop for several more days and then spring back up to maybe higher than it was before.

Looks like we in my neighborhood are raising our dike by a foot later this week.

Oh, and did I tell you the city's putting up a contingency dike that puts my neighborhood on the river side of it?

The water's down no to about the level of the slate on my table

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=fgf&gage=fgon8&view=1,1,1,1,1,1
Click to expand...


Was that a Gabriels FOR SALE ad?
JoeyA
 
Could someone post a link to the pic, I went to the main page of AZ and didnt see it.

I also have always thought that his fundamentals are more in line with modern teachings than most gave him credit for.

Woody
 
randyg said:
Exactly!

In a Pendulum Stroke:

SET: When the tip is stopped close to the cue ball, the back arm should be perpendicular (90 degrees) to the cue stick. The knuckles should be parralel with the cue and directly under the elbow.

In the back stop (PAUSE position) the knuckles should be pointing down every so slightly.

At moment of contact the knuckles should be parallel with the cue stick.

At he end of the stroke (FINISH position), knuckles up (to your chin) just like the picture.

SPF=randyg
Click to expand...


hmmm.

The back arm "should..."

The knuckles "should..."

You know what?

I guess if you're lost, this "should" stuff will help. It'll give you something to hold on to during the storm of a tournament, or money match. I guess it gives you something you can keep repeating to yourself -- a mantra -- over and over, thinking all the time (while "the wheels are coming off," "Well, Efren does it this way (doesn't he?)" Basically, this stuff is the life preserver of the pool world.

I just wish, somewhere along the way, it was pointed out, at least as some sort of disclaimer or truth in advertising, that: this will not work for everyone; this will not make you a champ (no matter how many hours you spend to burn this stuff in); it is not the end-all, universal truth, some guys are trying to make it out to be.

Mechanically, what works for one guy, may be totally antithetical to producing the best results, for the other.

Every man must find his own way up the mountain.

Lou Figueroa
wax on
wax off
 
Lou...Apparently you know best, huh? The truth is that this style of training yourself for a repeatable stroke (pendulum) WILL work for the majority of players who adopt it...and those are the folks we are out to help. Not someone that is already necessarily a pro-level player, who has ingrained another type of stroke process (like Mike Davis for example). Nobody ever said SPF was the "end all-be all" for EVERYONE...and certainly everyone is entitled to their own opinion. All Randyg was pointing out, is that some pros use SPF, or something similar, which is a nice way to have a professional role model, to look up to.

BTW, the goal is to think BEFORE shooting, and shoot WITHOUT thinking...so your comment about repeating a mantra in competition is complete b.s. That is not what we recommend, nor how we expect our students to practice. A "life preserver"? Perhaps...and there are plenty of "lost souls" who are not satisfied with their inconsistent process, who search us out, and come away with a much better understanding of themselves, in relation to how to produce an accurate, repeatable set-up and delivery process, for the cuestick, that can be practiced until it becomes like 'riding a bike with no hands'...in other words, a reflex action. For the record, neither will playing 12 hours a day, for years, make you a champion, without some kind of repeatable process. All pros have one (even you). The key is that they do it the same way, every time, for every shot...and they do. Sheesh! :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

lfigueroa said:
hmmm.

The back arm "should..."

The knuckles "should..."

You know what?

I guess if you're lost, this "should" stuff will help. It'll give you something to hold on to during the storm of a tournament, or money match. I guess it gives you something you can keep repeating to yourself -- a mantra -- over and over, thinking all the time (while "the wheels are coming off," "Well, Efren does it this way (doesn't he?)" Basically, this stuff is the life preserver of the pool world.

I just wish, somewhere along the way, it was pointed out, at least as some sort of disclaimer or truth in advertising, that: this will not work for everyone; this will not make you a champ (no matter how many hours you spend to burn this stuff in); it is not the end-all, universal truth, some guys are trying to make it out to be.

Mechanically, what works for one guy, may be totally antithetical to producing the best results, for the other.

Every man must find his own way up the mountain.

Lou Figueroa
wax on
wax off
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
Lou...Apparently you know best, huh? The truth is that this style of training yourself for a repeatable stroke (pendulum) WILL work for the majority of players who adopt it...and those are the folks we are out to help. Not someone that is already necessarily a pro-level player, who has ingrained another type of stroke process (like Mike Davis for example). Nobody ever said SPF was the "end all-be all" for EVERYONE...and certainly everyone is entitled to their own opinion. All Randyg was pointing out, is that some pros use SPF, or something similar, which is a nice way to have a professional role model, to look up to.

BTW, the goal is to think BEFORE shooting, and shoot WITHOUT thinking...so your comment about repeating a mantra in competition is complete b.s. That is not what we recommend, nor how we expect our students to practice. A "life preserver"? Perhaps...and there are plenty of "lost souls" who are not satisfied with their inconsistent process, who search us out, and come away with a much better understanding of themselves, in relation to how to produce an accurate, repeatable set-up and delivery process, for the cuestick, that can be practiced until it becomes like 'riding a bike with no hands'...in other words, a reflex action. For the record, neither will playing 12 hours a day, for years, make you a champion, without some kind of repeatable process. All pros have one (even you). The key is that they do it the same way, every time, for every shot...and they do. Sheesh! :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...


Well, no. I don't know what's best for most players and freely admit so.

But now that you mention it (and takin' a peek around the room), I only see a couple of udder guys claiming they know what's best :-)

Sooooo, just for the record, I totally agree that repeatability is key to good pool. I've been saying that for years. What I don't say is: XYZ, "or something similar," will work for the majority of players who adopt it -- because no one knows that. That would include youze.

In any case, it's good to see you say that what your teaching is not the end all-be all for everyone. That's good stuff.

Sheesh, roll eyes, burp, and all that :-)

Lou Figueroa
wax on
wax off
 
Lou...Show me a post where any SPF instructor said that what we teach IS the "end-all, be-all for everyone"! As for the stats we promote...we have 25 years and 1000's of players who have successfully adopted this style of play...several who have gone on to become national champions, and many more who have improved their games dramatically. The numbers don't lie...

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

lfigueroa said:
Well, no. I don't know what's best for most players and freely admit so.

But now that you mention it (and takin' a peek around the room), I only see a couple of udder guys claiming they know what's best :-)

Sooooo, just for the record, I totally agree that repeatability is key to good pool. I've been saying that for years. What I don't say is: XYZ, "or something similar," will work for the majority of players who adopt it -- because no one knows that. That would include youze.

In any case, it's good to see you say that what your teaching is not the end all-be all for everyone. That's good stuff.

Sheesh, roll eyes, burp, and all that :-)

Lou Figueroa
wax on
wax off
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
Lou...Show me a post where any SPF instructor said that what we teach IS the "end-all, be-all for everyone"! As for the stats we promote...we have 25 years and 1000's of players who have successfully adopted this style of play...several who have gone on to become national champions, and many more who have improved their games dramatically. The numbers don't lie...

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...


Gee, I dan't know. Maybe it's just a fleeting impression, what with all the: the back arm should; the knuckles should; Efren does it like this; and stuff like that there. Speaking just for me, there's something very didactic about the way this stuff is described... by those that sell it.

Me? I have nothing to sell. I don't claim to have 1000's of players who adopted a particular style of play I sell. Even if I did, I would know that I would have no way of knowing if those 1000's of players tried what I was selling, and then, later on in life, after due course and experimentation, decided to go another path; kept a part of it; or threw it out wholesale thinking it was totally ca-ca... 25 years or less later :-)

Not saying that's the case here, but numbers can and often do lie :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
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I feel ya.....

lfigueroa said:
Well, no. I don't know what's best for most players and freely admit so.

But now that you mention it (and takin' a peek around the room), I only see a couple of udder guys claiming they know what's best :-)

Sooooo, just for the record, I totally agree that repeatability is key to good pool. I've been saying that for years. What I don't say is: XYZ, "or something similar," will work for the majority of players who adopt it -- because no one knows that. That would include youze.

In any case, it's good to see you say that what your teaching is not the end all-be all for everyone. That's good stuff.

Sheesh, roll eyes, burp, and all that :-)

First off Im just going to say Efren plays however Efren wants !!!!! I got hours of tapes of him and he wiggles, scworms, bobs, he moves more than the San Andreis (sp) fault. Holds his cue lose, tight, bridges open hand, close hand, close bridge on the rail, lets not forget the 22inch bridge off the rail, he does what ever he wants, he is flat out amazing. Hes like a dang kid just screwing off pocketing balls as he wishes... And as for the pause thing, Allison pauses, Buddy pauuuuuuses, Efren, he Efrens theres no BCA Cert. pause, nice try.

Now to the BCA play like this thing....Being involved in organized games for 30+ years Ive had a few coaches. And right, wrong, good, bad, im telling you it sure comes accross to me that BCA Inst. say this is how you have to play. Im not saying thats what they say but it comes accross that way to me. Its like listening to the guy on sat during PGA events (cant remember his name right now) he drives me crazy no two golfers have the same swing but listening to him you would thnk they all hit the ball the same way..
Click to expand...
 
wow.. My experience with SPF instruction was that they have many different ways to accomplish the necessary ingredients to play properly.

and they custom fit an acceptable operating procedure based upon the individual...

there is more than one way to skin a cat..

and these guys have skinned a lot of cats..
 
Mowem down said:
lfigueroa said:
Well, no. I don't know what's best for most players and freely admit so.

But now that you mention it (and takin' a peek around the room), I only see a couple of udder guys claiming they know what's best :-)

Sooooo, just for the record, I totally agree that repeatability is key to good pool. I've been saying that for years. What I don't say is: XYZ, "or something similar," will work for the majority of players who adopt it -- because no one knows that. That would include youze.

In any case, it's good to see you say that what your teaching is not the end all-be all for everyone. That's good stuff.

Sheesh, roll eyes, burp, and all that :-)

First off Im just going to say Efren plays however Efren wants !!!!! I got hours of tapes of him and he wiggles, scworms, bobs, he moves more than the San Andreis (sp) fault. Holds his cue lose, tight, bridges open hand, close hand, close bridge on the rail, lets not forget the 22inch bridge off the rail, he does what ever he wants, he is flat out amazing. Hes like a dang kid just screwing off pocketing balls as he wishes... And as for the pause thing, Allison pauses, Buddy pauuuuuuses, Efren, he Efrens theres no BCA Cert. pause, nice try.

Now to the BCA play like this thing....Being involved in organized games for 30+ years Ive had a few coaches. And right, wrong, good, bad, im telling you it sure comes accross to me that BCA Inst. say this is how you have to play. Im not saying thats what they say but it comes accross that way to me. Its like listening to the guy on sat during PGA events (cant remember his name right now) he drives me crazy no two golfers have the same swing but listening to him you would thnk they all hit the ball the same way..
Click to expand...



I sorry that you are confused. Please, let me try to help:

You have confused the BCA Instructor certification program with the SPF program that a World known Training Facility uses for results. Two different organizations. Two different goals. Two different States.

The BCA Instructors Program doesn't have a "teach this way" guideline. None what so ever. They know very little about SPF, follow through and grips. They are a sanctioning body for Instructors, only!!!!! They keep us honest. They do our bookwork and our finances. They keep us organized.

The SPF Training Facility (BCA Sanctioned) is a private facility and is "hands on". This Training Facility and it's Family of Instructors brings instruction to hundreds of students a year and maybe even more important; brings new quality Instructors into our program.

Hope this helps.....SPF=randyg

PS: Most all golfers are the same, at contact. Pool also.
Click to expand...
 
softshot said:
wow.. My experience with SPF instruction was that they have many different ways to accomplish the necessary ingredients to play properly.

and they custom fit an acceptable operating procedure based upon the individual...

there is more than one way to skin a cat..

and these guys have skinned a lot of cats..
Click to expand...

You got it SOFTSHOT. It's usually the "outsiders" looking in taking all the pot shots.

Keep up your good video work...SPF=randyg
 
JoeyInCali said:
Efren pauses the tip on the cueball at least three times before shooting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDoGDojBzRM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INzRX2mf2nw&feature=related
His arm is a little forward but doesn't matter b/c he lets the cue slide off his "grip" hand.
That's the reason he doesn't play with a wrapped cue. Even his infamous $15 cue had a sprayed-on wrap.
Click to expand...

He does pause at the front of his warmup stroke but not at the back, also his cue doesn't slide one bit there.
 
Mowem down said:
First off Im just going to say Efren plays however Efren wants !!!!! I got hours of tapes of him and he wiggles, scworms, bobs, he moves more than the San Andreis (sp) fault. Holds his cue lose, tight, bridges open hand, close hand, close bridge on the rail, lets not forget the 22inch bridge off the rail, he does what ever he wants, he is flat out amazing. Hes like a dang kid just screwing off pocketing balls as he wishes... And as for the pause thing, Allison pauses, Buddy pauuuuuuses, Efren, he Efrens theres no BCA Cert. pause, nice try.

Now to the BCA play like this thing....Being involved in organized games for 30+ years Ive had a few coaches. And right, wrong, good, bad, im telling you it sure comes accross to me that BCA Inst. say this is how you have to play. Im not saying thats what they say but it comes accross that way to me. Its like listening to the guy on sat during PGA events (cant remember his name right now) he drives me crazy no two golfers have the same swing but listening to him you would thnk they all hit the ball the same way..
Click to expand...


I think the BCA thing is something different than what we're talking about here. It's more of an accreditation program. IIRC, they ask you a bunch of questions to see if you understand the basics and you send in a video lesson and then you get a certificate if it's all kosher.

But I do agree that Efren is Efren and that there are all different ways too play pool, A stroll around the tournament room of any major event shows that.

Lou Figueroa
 
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