To help pool players funding

[u12armresl]

Lately, there have been a lot of threads from players who leave this world with no funding, insurance, money, or current players who don't have money to even get to an event where just them being there would be an excitement for all the fans, and I have a few questions and comments.

There are lots of ways people do things for pool, it's not all monetary, as church says you have time, talent, and treasure you can offer to help anyone.

My first question is, since there is a lot of people on this site who bet on pool matches over the net, how many of you throw something to the player via PayPal when you win. I know that lots will say well in person I give a roll etc. or I say they played great, but in reality you are making money off of their talent and they don't get paid near what world class people do get paid. Also, lots of people are going to say I only bet 20 or 50 on it, then ship them 2 and 5 to an account. Make it a point for each pool related bet to gift to someone a few bucks, it makes a world of difference to those who don't have it.

My second question is why haven't all the organizations who are in pool (a thread listed all the tours etc. come together and made some kind of a fund for pool players. The idea would be like the old Texas express days where you paid for a card and then an entry fee. A portion of that card and of each entry fee AND a portion of all these huge calcutta across the country would go into a fund where people can draw against that fund for emergencies or entry fees into other events, or save it until they retire and get a lump sum. Everyone benefits from this and there are no losers. If $1 from every entry fee 25$ and up and scaled up were put into a fund, that fund would quickly grow. Also these monster calcuttas like White Diamonds, think if a few hundred dollars was taken out of that and 2-3 dollars from each entry, that adds up. Think about if chain billiard locations started kicking in money from weekly tournaments of 10 a week, lots of people can be helped with everyday living costs, final burial costs, gas costs to get to tournaments. Maybe even an organization could purchase large amounts of gas cards at a discount and sell those to the players at a reduced rate (we all need gas) or give them to people who drive to tournaments a certain distance from their home zip code.

I would think that you have to buy into the system to pay for the paperwork and time of setting up an account for you, but then after that think of all the money which could be generated. No longer would we have to hear this pool great died and has no funeral funds, or this great is dying and has no food, these are people we all indirectly learned the game from, watched, and enjoyed. A lot of people bet on pool, some can't play pool, never could, just like the action, some used to play but cant for health reasons so just bet on it, the end result is that we need to help.

There are tons of threads about suggestions and a few people always say this is a good idea or that is a bad idea and then it dies out for a thread about who can bet higher or who is the best action, or who is this player.

Can we try to get some support for some system of retirement for these players, get a universal fund set up and figure out some admin on that fund ( I know it will take a ton of work) but there are lots of people who love the game from all different fields who can help. It's just getting lots of people behind the effort and not letting it die out to some junk threads. None of us are here today if not for the work of the shortstops, local legends, and world beaters, lets help them.

Let's generate some discussion on this issue.

 

[Desmondp]

um how many people who win money on the superbowl paypal money to the winning NFL team ?

I'm all for supporting the sport but if i bet on a sport, i'm taking that financial risk and i want the reward

What if you bet on a player and they lose ? By your reasoning, that player's lack of talent on that particular night should mean they buy you dinner

Its a tough world nowadays for everyone in every facet of life but you have to do things for yourself

I have a pretty good job and amdoing pretty good but i have created my own side business to supplement my income and it eats into a lot of my free time but i have taken it on myself to get ahead financially and i'm afraid pool players are in the same boat. Give lessons, do exhibtions etc, whatever they need to do to get ahead. No one can rely on handouts.

 

[abie10]

these people knowingly put themselves in that position of hardship.

how about taking some of your winnings and giving it to people that have hardships that aren't voluntary?

 

[Maniac]

I guess I'll never "get it". I don't understand why, because they love the game so much, do pool players think there has to be a big payout for success. There are plenty of other sports/games that people develop talent, spend big money on equipment, and spend years honing their talents to perfection only to see small payouts for major competitions. Shooting sports comes to mind right away. Drag racing (if not for sponsorship, this sport would have died long ago, or at least stayed on local levels). Professional fishing (payouts ain't bad, but the long, hard hours out in inclement weather, Geez! And they too have sponsors.). There are others I could name, but you get the idea. Nobody, but maybe the top 5 or 10 competitors in these sports are really making any decent money at it. Why should pool players??? Their "sport" is always played indoors under controlled climate. It can be played successfully without the need for overly-expensive equipment. There are literally hundreds upon hundreds of players worldwide that can/do beat the known best players on any given day (Many times the cream doesn't rise to the top). Not many people other than hardcore players themselves care to watch it on TV (It's as boring as watching rimfire silhouette shooting would be). So, why in hell does so many people think that someone proficient with a five-foot sliver of wood in his/her hands should make money off of a game that literally thousands of people are also proficient at? And yes, if you're wondering, I also think football, baseball, basketball, hockey players, etc. are grossly overpaid.
IMO, poolplayers get paid about exactly what they're worth. For someone to get rich off of pool would be as stupid as some high-school dropout from some Caribbean third-world country becoming a multi-millionaire for being able to hit a little round baseball fifteen feet further than most other ballplayers. Ridiculous!!!

Maniac (Still a lover of the game of pool, regardless of what some may think)

 

[u12armresl]

Please do explain.

Dennis is selling his cue for financial reasons, how did he knowingly place himself in that position? Wade didn't have funeral arrangements, how did he knowingly place himself in that position. The list is endless. Your position has no facts. The players did nothing wrong.

The sport doesn't pay that much although lots of people make money betting on the side. How about a calcutta where you can't afford to buy yourself, but win tournament and get $500 where the calcutta paid 5k for first or 10k for first.

these people knowingly put themselves in that position of hardship.

how about taking some of your winnings and giving it to people that have hardships that aren't voluntary?

 

[u12armresl]

Really? A superbowl is your analogy?

In football your guaranteed league minimum is $385k if you are a 10 year veteran you make a bit over $850k. That's the league minimum. Most football players, I know one pro bowler, a hall of famer, and some not so famous ones, and they live comfortably.

Pool is hurting, there are only so many Diamonds that can be sold, there are only so many new racks, only so many new items which can come up. I was thinking of an idea and while I know that people will knock it, It would be nice to hear if someone is going to knock it to provide a fair analogy.

The dinner comment is absurd. This is about if you bet and win money shipping a few dollars. If you lose I have nothing in place for that, but you know that you don't get anything from them, except the enjoyment of watching the game.

What was your argument about taking a dollar out of an entry fee and some money out of the calcutta? What was your argument about providing some discount gas, some health care, some funeral costs, to players? Get a side job, work harder and be someone?

I'm not in a position to offer up tons of money, but I did start to provide a reasonable way which could be built upon, come to think of it others have thought of great ideas only to have someone with a few posts come out of the woodwork and knock the idea, not offering anything of their own to help, just to knock it.

um how many people who win money on the superbowl paypal money to the winning NFL team ?

I'm all for supporting the sport but if i bet on a sport, i'm taking that financial risk and i want the reward

What if you bet on a player and they lose ? By your reasoning, that player's lack of talent on that particular night should mean they buy you dinner

Its a tough world nowadays for everyone in every facet of life but you have to do things for yourself

I have a pretty good job and amdoing pretty good but i have created my own side business to supplement my income and it eats into a lot of my free time but i have taken it on myself to get ahead financially and i'm afraid pool players are in the same boat. Give lessons, do exhibtions etc, whatever they need to do to get ahead. No one can rely on handouts.

 

[Desmondp]

Calcuttas are good, i have absolutely no problem with them at all. if done correctly, everyone benefits from them.

Pool players know there isn't that much money in the sport, no reason why they can't have a regular job as well as playing pool. Many participants in fringe sports do this

Cleaners don't make much money. Should we set up funds for them as well ?

The players who do make a lot of money from the sport and there are some who make quite a lot, they don't plough a percentage of their winnings back to the other less fortunate players and nor should they have to, so why should fans have to support these less fortunate players ?

Mate if you want to give handouts to pool players, it's your right, no one is going to stop you, good luck to you. To ask others to do the same isn't right.

 

[u12armresl]

I can't see how you missed the point of this thread, and how you could be against helping those who people bet on and helping every person who plays in a circuit with some money for later in life.

Why talk about cleaners and other professions or hobbies, I love pool, I'm talking about pool.

The people who make quite a bit of money in pool aren't the topic either. The topic is taking a percentage out of bets people make and taking a percentage out of calcuttas and entry fees. What does what a person who is a player make have to do with this topic? If that player is betting on another player, then yes they should provide something for that player.

TAR helps players, that's a great thing they do. Go onto any pool tournament which is streamed in the chat and see all the people talking about betting on the set they are watching.

Oh wait, there are some players who have daytime jobs who are great players so why can't everyone be like them right?

Calcuttas are good, i have absolutely no problem with them at all. if done correctly, everyone benefits from them.

Pool players know there isn't that much money in the sport, no reason why they can't have a regular job as well as playing pool. Many participants in fringe sports do this

Cleaners don't make much money. Should we set up funds for them as well ?

The players who do make a lot of money from the sport and there are some who make quite a lot, they don't plough a percentage of their winnings back to the other less fortunate players and nor should they have to, so why should fans have to support these less fortunate players ?

Mate if you want to give handouts to pool players, it's your right, no one is going to stop you, good luck to you. To ask others to do the same isn't right.

 

[justnum]

Classic problem about helping people with a talent.

The only concept I've seen work and survive is to just make sure people have their head on straight and hope they don't blow it each time they have a chance to get well or make good.

If people have poor ideas in their mind they are bound to make bad decisions. At least if they can assess for themselves what they are doing they have a better chance at surviving then if they are banking on catching a break with the next big thing. It is difficult for players to get a good assessment of things if they are always reading about large payouts or some quick fix solution.

A nice chat usually helps. The best investment is in showing players how to invest for themselves. It is a high risk proposition but the payoff is clear.

Summary: If a player knows how to make good financial decisions it is better than having to provide them funds frequently to survive.

 

[u12armresl]

Thank you for a clear and straightforward answer.

Classic problem about helping people with a talent.

The only concept I've seen work and survive is to just make sure people have their head on straight and hope they don't blow it each time they have a chance to get well or make good.

If people have poor ideas in their mind they are bound to make bad decisions. At least if they can assess for themselves what they are doing they have a better chance at surviving then if they are banking on catching a break with the next big thing. It is difficult for players to get a good assessment of things if they are always reading about large payouts or some quick fix solution.

A nice chat usually helps. The best investment is in showing players how to invest for themselves. It is a high risk proposition but the payoff is clear.

 

[Banks]

It's a nice thought to have extra money to toss out to people.

But...

I'm sure we can all think of the players that sleep on their friends couches, stay up until 8am and sleep until 5pm. Do I really go to work Monday through Friday so that they can sit on their rumps and "do what they love"? Yeah, it's a great idea to take care of the wants first and let others deal with the needs. Unfortunately, this just doesn't make economic sense. Maybe teach them to make money or be self-sufficient, but I'm sure not following for the "poor me" line.

Oh, and somebody can have the skills to take down a decent tournament, but not the financial wisdom to set aside a few bucks for the calcutta? Not my problem. If you give the guy the money, then you're screwing the people that actually had their own money that they were going to put in. Where does it stop?

And how is financial ignorance not their fault? You're talking about grown men that blew their money without regard to their futures. Where are their 401k's? How about medical insurance? Maybe I should start setting some of my money aside so that they can "retire" when they're done travelling around and partying like a teenager.

If a road player ever takes me off, that son of a ***** better ask if he can take me to dinner or do my laundry for work.

Sorry, I'm not much into adults acting like needy kids.

"Sure, I'll play for $10k." "Hey, can I borrow $5?" Not getting any sympathy here. Next time, maybe those without the wisdom to think more than 5 days into the future should be forced to bank half of their winnings.

Oh, and one more thing.. how much of that money that changes hands gets taxed? I'm sure it's a much smaller percentage than what I see every other week (or more like 0%).

Wah wah wah.
...
Take a look at a couple of people mentioned here recently.. Brumback and Gregg. They both have kids.. you know what that means? They have no other choice than to take care of business. Ask them about getting handouts or having to bust their arses. I'd put money on them having to bust their arses.

 

[u12armresl]

Love the calcutta comment. God forbid you ever go for 1k or 5k in a calcutta and didn't set aside the 500 from 10 tournaments in a row you won to pay for that.

I see why people quit looking for solutions, too many people who say QQ , wah wah wah, get a job, not my reason to help, I didn't put them in that position.

The really good players, do you think they still love it, or that it's their work. Most people don't love their jobs, it's what they do because they are good at it and can make some money at it.

It's a nice thought to have extra money to toss out to people.

But...

I'm sure we can all think of the players that sleep on their friends couches, stay up until 8am and sleep until 5pm. Do I really go to work Monday through Friday so that they can sit on their rumps and "do what they love"? Yeah, it's a great idea to take care of the wants first and let others deal with the needs. Unfortunately, this just doesn't make economic sense. Maybe teach them to make money or be self-sufficient, but I'm sure not following for the "poor me" line.

Oh, and somebody can have the skills to take down a decent tournament, but not the financial wisdom to set aside a few bucks for the calcutta? Not my problem. If you give the guy the money, then you're screwing the people that actually had their own money that they were going to put in. Where does it stop?

And how is financial ignorance not their fault? You're talking about grown men that blew their money without regard to their futures. Where are their 401k's? How about medical insurance? Maybe I should start setting some of my money aside so that they can "retire" when they're done travelling around and partying like a teenager.

If a road player ever takes me off, that son of a ***** better ask if he can take me to dinner or do my laundry for work.

Sorry, I'm not much into adults acting like needy kids.

"Sure, I'll play for $10k." "Hey, can I borrow $5?" Not getting any sympathy here. Next time, maybe those without the wisdom to think more than 5 days into the future should be forced to bank half of their winnings.

Oh, and one more thing.. how much of that money that changes hands gets taxed? I'm sure it's a much smaller percentage than what I see every other week (or more like 0%).

Wah wah wah.
...
Take a look at a couple of people mentioned here recently.. Brumback and Gregg. They both have kids.. you know what that means? They have no other choice than to take care of business. Ask them about getting handouts or having to bust their arses. I'd put money on them having to bust their arses.

 

[JCIN]

One simple way that I think everyone can participate in is to simply support the game when you can. Go to tournaments. Just going to an event and paying admission or staying in the host hotel helps the events. Hell, pay the entry and jump in. Most events are open. Pool is one of the few events you can play in the same events as the elite in the world. Take advantage of it. If the event survives or grows it provides opportunities for players.

If you are in the market for something pool related try and buy from someone who sponsors a player or an event you like and be sure to TELL THEM that one of the reasons you choose their product was because of that sponsorship. If a sponsor gets positive feedback they see that their investment is working and are more apt to continue or expand it.

If a player is selling an instructional DVD or offering a seminar and you are interested in it and can afford it buy it. If there is a player you would want such a seminar from mention to them or even start a thread and see if you can put one together. Get ten local guys to put in $200 each for an eight hour class. Most players I know if their schedule permits would fly out and do a class for that. Some would do multiple days for that or one day for less. Don't be afraid to contact them and ask.

These are few ways I can see to help players. I am afraid a system based structure with health care, death benefits and other such things is probably too complicated to be feasible at this point but that doesn't mean its not possible in the future if the players decide it is something they want to work for. IMO there are smart capable people who would help if they thought it was serious thing with majority support.

 

[Banks]

Love the calcutta comment. God forbid you ever go for 1k or 5k in a calcutta and didn't set aside the 500 from 10 tournaments in a row you won to pay for that.

I see why people quit looking for solutions, too many people who say QQ , wah wah wah, get a job, not my reason to help, I didn't put them in that position.

The really good players, do you think they still love it, or that it's their work. Most people don't love their jobs, it's what they do because they are good at it and can make some money at it.

If I'm ever good enough to go for 1k or 5k in a calcutta, I should either have the money set aside or should not expect to be able to buy myself. If I set aside $250 from the 10 tournaments in a row that I won, and another $250 a week from the part-time job I could've been working between those 10 tournaments, I'd have the cash.

The really good players, I'd say it's probably a combination of both.

There are things that I'd love to do instead of working for a living, but I really don't enjoy: couch surfing, not showering, not eating, paying out the @#$ at the doctor and having to ask for handouts.

If you want the players to make more, there has to be more done than to just try and throw money at the problem - the game must become much more popular than it currently is in this country. It's simple economics.

 

[Desmondp]

I totally agree with supporting the sport by going to events, buying online PPVs etc

I will buy any good online PPV

I'm even happy to pay entry fees to tournaments i have no chance of winning or getting anything back to support the sport

But i'm not just going to hand out my hard earned money to anyone

 

[LAlouie]

Lately, there have been a lot of threads from players who leave this world with no funding, insurance, money, or current players who don't have money to even get to an event where just them being there would be an excitement for all the fans, and I have a few questions and comments.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Let's generate some discussion on this issue.

You've convinced me. I'm donating all my well-earned money to pool players here in the USA. They deserve to make the same money that a Macdonald's worker makes.

 

[u12armresl]

Like I said earlier. Someone starts a thread with an idea and gets smart a** answers.

You could have offered another solution or not replied, nowhere were you asked to donate all of your hard earned money. I asked about a system where a small amount of money comes out of entry fees, calcuttas, and tour cards, as well as if you are betting online to give a small piece of your winnings to the player involved.

If you aren't betting on matches, don't worry about it. If you don't step up and play tournaments, don't worry about taking a dollar out of your hard earned entry fee money.

You've convinced me. I'm donating all my well-earned money to pool players here in the USA. They deserve to make the same money that a Macdonald's worker makes.

 

[justnum]

Kevin Trudeau did spend a lot of his own money to give the players an experience few can afford to do.

Despite how much he spent and how much effort was put into the production it still didn't help the community in the long run, it was more of a joyride. It did help a few individuals but at a price that is debatable.

The comments about people and what they do with money is helpful, for the fans to see the zoo of a community the players deal with.

Money is common, lots of money is uncommon. To simplify the problem I would suggest focusing on what has worked for the players that are doing well and get that type of info out there to the younger players.

Jeanette Lee does merchandising and promotions well, Johnny Archer does more event promotions, Effren Reyes is a crowd attractor, and stuff like that. The newer players have a lot more business dealings then the older ones and that will create a bunch of new suspects.

I suggest a refocus of the problem because with a budding industry the people at the bottom ladder recruiting young talent burn the worst, and the top ladder is always a distant notion. It is hard to say the market is small and the pie slices are slim but it shouldn't stop them from saying some practices will hurt. The fear is that an upstart player will hook up with a low level marketer or organizer and then set the player up for a fall, sometimes big sometimes small. The player community could try to interact but with new people they know everything.

 

[LAlouie]

Like I said earlier. Someone starts a thread with an idea and gets smart a** answers.

You could have offered another solution or not replied, nowhere were you asked to donate all of your hard earned money. I asked about a system where a small amount of money comes out of entry fees, calcuttas, and tour cards, as well as if you are betting online to give a small piece of your winnings to the player involved.

If you aren't betting on matches, don't worry about it. If you don't step up and play tournaments, don't worry about taking a dollar out of your hard earned entry fee money.

Let me tell you why you will always get smart-@ss answers. Because this is a tiresome boring-@ss theme that is brought up 6x a year. The smart-@ss answer is ridiculing your insipid-@ssed suggestion.

 

[ridinda9]

Let me tell you why you will always get smart-@ss answers. Because this is a tiresome boring-@ss theme that is brought up 6x a year. The smart-@ss answer is ridiculing your insipid-@ssed suggestion.

:yeah::killingme::clapping::rotflmao::woot: