TOI: Why it can work, by Neil

Chrippa said:
.....

Ps - if anyone can steer me in some directions in increasing some knowledge about masse shots I would be grateful, meaning more towards "real masse shots" but I welcome every part.
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If you haven't seen this, check it out, all you ever wanted to know about the science behind the masse shot, and the guy can clearly apply it as well. Hope he comes out with the second part that he alludes to...

Scott


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB8nWQdiQes&context=C3541215ADOEgsToPDskLgQkdzn9ygtJ_W0IWo45JG
 
scottjen26 said:
If you haven't seen this, check it out, all you ever wanted to know about the science behind the masse shot, and the guy can clearly apply it as well. Hope he comes out with the second part that he alludes to...

Scott


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB8nWQdiQes&context=C3541215ADOEgsToPDskLgQkdzn9ygtJ_W0IWo45JG
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Thanks mate!! Now I have something to work at, just took a brief look and there a ton of knowledge there. I saw a vid from him before and he has a gorgeous poolroom. Talk about devotion:)

Chrippa
 
Thanks to Neil for the thread. I was thinking about starting a similar one. There are those that have mentioned, if you don't agree with someone's ideas you shouldn't continue to follow them from thread to thread just to disagree. Instead, you should create your own thread. I agree with this to a point. This is what Neil has done. How can you argue with that?

Now to my thoughts:
Here's the full spectrum of playing with TOI from my vantage point:

A. Cinching technique. In this approach, you are just cognizant of the side of the cue ball you tend to error on. You use this information to help cinch shots by deflecting them into the center of the pocket. A lot of players were already aware of this technique. The Renfro deserves credit for pointing this out a long time ago.

B. TOI becomes your new stop shot. In this approach, you are looking to shoot this TOI shot whenever you can. You are so comfortable shooting this shot that it becomes your favorite and you hope that you can shoot it every time you step to the table.

C. Total TOI reliance. In this approach, you are forcing the table to accept the TOI shot. This is how CJ says he plays, and he plays so well he probably can play like this. However, this is where he loses a lot of us when he talks about forcing the table to accept the TOI shot vs. playing the table you've been given. He has mentioned in the past that this is what players like Efren Reyes do (meaning they look for their pet shot). This part I do not believe to be accurate. When I watch Efren play, I'm of the opinion that he steps to the table and determines where the cue ball needs to go, then he hits the cue ball wherever is needed to attain proper position. This is the polar opposite of stepping to the table and always looking to hit the same shot (e.g. TOI shot).

So the bottom line for me is TOI may be an effective cinching technique, but as far as a complete shooting system is concerned - I'll pass.
 
the TOI Technique taps into the perfect geometry of the pool table

Mikjary said:
Neil,

I read your posts and I thank you for your well thought out opinions. I bolded the last post in a couple of spots to say I agree with them. These are things I figured out years ago when I first learned 90/90 aiming from Ron and Pro One from Stan.

With this background I developed many more questions. I've searched for answers, but didn't find any until a few months ago. I kept an open mind with CJ's posting and liked what I heard.

His first venture to test the waters was the TOI. It's a simple logical process to start a routine of consistency while reinforcing the idea that aiming at the object ball can give you trouble. Some looked at the technique for its physical application and criticized it as reheated info. Most opened their minds and took notice that simple things are staring us in the face, but we choose to ignore them. I made an effort to prove it viable by using it to exhaustion and discovered many things that aren't at face value.

Next, CJ talked about the 3 Part Pocket System and again was met with the same debates while many put it to practical use. The armchair players looked at it with disdain and dismissed it as more leftovers. Too bad. They missed a piece of the puzzle that "connected" his next attempt at explaining his total package for consistency...Center To Center and Center To Edge alignment. The 3 Part Pocket System actually was the missing mental, not physical link, which explained the reason the CTC alignment worked. It is based on the same principle as Pro One and all other pivot systems. But unless you followed the progression, you would find no value or understand the process. You can debate the words he chooses, but the results are legendary.

If you can't have an open mind about what a person tells you, you will never be able to understand their position. You will read into what ever it is they tell you because you have tried it, but couldn't get it to work for you. I have tried it for countless hours. I never said they were mistaken. I just knew I didn't understand what it is they were trying to relate to me.

Your assumptions are peripheral. As a player that has dedicated many hours to exhaust all possibilities from a knowledgeable source and figured it out, I see the flaws in your platform. The physics are fine. Shoot CJ for explaining what he does and thinks he does. We see the results, though. And they are the $hit! Only on our best day could we duplicate part of his videos. That's a clue, but you haven't done the requisite work. You are close and with some dedication you may find out what I've seen in the past few weeks.

CJ's postings were cryptic at first. Then they turned familiar to me. Dave Yeager said the same things to me about the CTC alignment. Dave ran with Buddy like CJ did. I didn't understand because Dave said to look at the top of the balls for alignment and trust what you see even if it looks wrong. It worked for him. He ran 6 packs every turn at the table. I'm a hundred ball runner at straights and he could've given me the 5 and BIH.

Now I know. After many years and countless questions, I know. CJ is giving it up. Whether he gets burned at the stake or hailed as a great teacher, everything he has said has been true. It's taken me several months to figure out the process, but I have.

You have backed up your opinions with factual evidence, but without actual experience and dedication, you are basing your findings on false outcomes. Your final logical conclusion is correct, but you are using opinionated reasoning and not empirical evidence to support it. What other methods were criticized on this forum? Hmmmm?

Best,
Mike
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The main thing about ball pocketing is developing a sense of touch/feel that can tap in to the unconscious.

Remember, it's "The Touch" of Inside, not "A Touch" of Inside.....the touch you get is from the feedback you receive by coordinating what you "think" is happening" with the deflection, to what really is happening....many players struggle with this their whole lives and never experience what the TOI Technique really teaches.....I've explained this in posts and demonstrated it on the TOI Video DVD.

Now that the first part of the foundation has been built is is time to move to phase 2 which will show how the TOI System also makes all the bank shots (and kicks) that come up....no matter how many rails, the TOI Technique taps into the perfect geometry of the pool table....it's not we humans that are perfect, it's the Game that is perfect. We just need to learn how to unlock this perfection. - 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
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