Too mechanical?

[Spimp13]

I was talking to a buddy late last week and he brought up a great topic I have been thinking about the last several days. He said knowing I have been working on some new stuff "be careful that you don't get too mechanical". That comment pretty much made me hit the think tank repeatedly. As someone who has or had major mechanical/process issues or lack thereof, that is something I am working on completely redoing. How can one tell they have become a robot and are too mechanical other then maybe some video tape or someone else telling them what they look like? Where is the fine line between still doing a great process from standing up to go to the table to the follow through on the shot (and everything in between), and looking uncomfortable or not natural because the whole process is purely mechanical?

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I think the key is to be fluid. You can be very mechanical and fluid. If you're too tight, you'll have no finesse.

 

[pooltchr]

I agree that you don't want to become stiff in your shooting. As for being mechanical, you can watch any number of pros who you could describe that way. When you go through the same process and same motions every time you shoot, it could be considered mechanical.
It's ok to be mechanical, if it's like a well oiled machine (ie Allison and Karen).

My practice time is probably somewhat mechanical, since I am focused on what I am doing, more that what the balls are doing. But when I play, my focus shifts, and the motions I practiced seem to come out on their own.

Steve

 

[Spimp13]

I think the key is to be fluid. You can be very mechanical and fluid. If you're too tight, you'll have no finesse.

It seems easy enough...however to someone like myself with major mechanical issues I am thinking more about getting that fixed, then being "fluid". I guess finding the balance will be a big challenge. Thanks for your input.

 

[Spimp13]

I agree that you don't want to become stiff in your shooting. As for being mechanical, you can watch any number of pros who you could describe that way. When you go through the same process and same motions every time you shoot, it could be considered mechanical.
It's ok to be mechanical, if it's like a well oiled machine (ie Allison and Karen).

My practice time is probably somewhat mechanical, since I am focused on what I am doing, more that what the balls are doing. But when I play, my focus shifts, and the motions I practiced seem to come out on their own.

Steve

Good point Steve, make sense. Training is probably a great time to be thinking about working on the "mechanical" aspect of the whole process. When doing tournaments, gambling, or just hang out shooting with friends hopefully it will just come naturally without me having to think "mechanical" thoughts.

 

[mikeyfrost]

Athens talks about this a lot. I think it all depends on comfort and confidence. Some people find more confidence on doing everything the same way much like a good free throw shooter in basketball. I say you don't shoot a free throw the same as a lay up or 3 pointer though. End of the day it's still about you and what's keeping you in stroke. Sometimes when you are off and you have a more steady foundation to fall back on you can bust your slump quicker with a more mechanical approach. I like doing what feels good and playing on the "feel" style. There's a problem with that though when it goes bad you don't have much to fall back on. When it's good though, it'll beat a mechanical style. Same goes with kicking systems, aiming systems etc. Just the observations I've made in the game.

End of the day it won't seem near as mechanical when the process is in your subconscious. If you have to tell yourself the steps as you are doing them, you prob arent comfortable with what you are doing. If it all happens without you thinking about it, there will be a natural fluidity in your game.

 

[Spimp13]

End of the day it won't seem near as mechanical when the process is in your subconscious. If you have to tell yourself the steps as you are doing them, you prob arent comfortable with what you are doing. If it all happens without you thinking about it, there will be a natural fluidity in your game.

Thanks for the 2 cents Frost. This is an interesting point. I find myself sometimes thinking about it, sometimes not. Training it to go to the subconscious is probably one of the hardest things. Other then repetition over and over, there probably isn't a much better way to get this transition in the brain I would think? Now if there is one little mechanical flaw/issue that is undetected though...this can be very disconcerning, especially if you have gone from the left side of the brain of thinking, to the right side of doing and still do not catch it. I have gotten a lot better at detecting where errors occur, but I am probably still missing some things. I may need to invest in the video camera which does not lie.

 

[pooltchr]

Spend a couple of days with Scott or Randy. They will help you develop consistent mechanics, and show you how to properly practice to help you develop the right habits as quickly as possible.

Steve

 

[Spimp13]

Spend a couple of days with Scott or Randy. They will help you develop consistent mechanics, and show you how to properly practice to help you develop the right habits as quickly as possible.

Steve

Got this one taken care of. Still a big work in progress. Patience has never been a virtue of mine...

 

[Scott Lee]

Matt...The difference between pros and really good amateurs is that pros do the same thing, the same way, on every shot, no matter what. That's what your shooting template and the Mother Drills will do for you. Don't give up...:grin:

Scott Lee

 

[SpiderWebComm]

MikeyFrost made a great point. No matter how rigid and mechanical you are when things are new--- over time, they will become fluid as the procedure becomes subconscious. Great point and very true, imo.

 

[Cameron Smith]

FWIW, I think most amateurs would be better served learning to play "too mechanically".

 

[softshot]

here is my story,,

I thought I was good...last August(08) I took a lesson... found out I needed to work on many parts of my game... I started working on mechanics... total focus

I wasn't focusing on playing pool... my GAME suffered..

well it went straight to hell.. I was worried about elbows and finish position.... many hours devoted to alignment..

I got worse and worse in the win loss column...

but at the same time I got better and better at execution...

my routine was this..

I did the Mother Drills in the morning before I took a shower get up grab some caffeine hit the table for an hour or so...

go about my day...

after the kids were asleep I'd play the Ghost... do some Joe Tucker drills... do some other drills.. or take one of the 99 critical shots and try to own it... I mixed it up

morning practice.. same thing every time..
night practice ... always something different

then at some point right around April I stopped facing opponents... not by choice.. it's just the way it happened.. a race to 10 once a week... was a good week.. sometimes I went 2 or 3 weeks...

I kept the same practice routine every day..

I did my morning mother drills 348 out of 365 days in the past year.. I have records to prove it..

a week or so ago.. I stopped all drills.. on purpose haven't done any since


I hit 4 or 5 racks everyday just to shoot..I just tried to stay in stroke..

.I stopped all focus on what I was doing.. and put all focus into the balls...

I simply stopped worrying about mechanics at all ... I stopped aiming... I stopped TRYING to play pool.. and just did it..

every single day since.. my game has jumped... not just I think I might have been a little better fake jumps... but ... HOLY SHIT.. I haven't missed a ball yet... jumps

do I get to this level of play without the work I put in??? no I don't think so

did I get better by letting go of the leash... YES... but without that guidance I would not be where I am now..


you must ingrain your mechanics until you simply can't do it any other way

and then you must trust it.. and move on...

good luck:grin-square:

 

[Scott Lee]

Great story...The time it takes to ingrain your personal "process" varies from person to person. I've seen people 'get it' in little more than a week or two. Some take longer...what matters is sticking to it, and resisting going back to your 'old established ways', when the new process doesn't give you immediate positive results. You're right...at some point you have to walk away, and just PLAY POOL. Trust in your stroke is an absolute prerequisite to moving to a new level in your playing (which is the competitive application of your new process). A consistent eye pattern is an essential component of this success.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

here is my story,,

I thought I was good...last August(08) I took a lesson... found out I needed to work on many parts of my game... I started working on mechanics... total focus

I wasn't focusing on playing pool... my GAME suffered..

well it went straight to hell.. I was worried about elbows and finish position.... many hours devoted to alignment..

I got worse and worse in the win loss column...

but at the same time I got better and better at execution...

my routine was this..

I did the Mother Drills in the morning before I took a shower get up grab some caffeine hit the table for an hour or so...

go about my day...

after the kids were asleep I'd play the Ghost... do some Joe Tucker drills... do some other drills.. or take one of the 99 critical shots and try to own it... I mixed it up

morning practice.. same thing every time..
night practice ... always something different

then at some point right around April I stopped facing opponents... not by choice.. it's just the way it happened.. a race to 10 once a week... was a good week.. sometimes I went 2 or 3 weeks...

I kept the same practice routine every day..

I did my morning mother drills 348 out of 365 days in the past year.. I have records to prove it..

a week or so ago.. I stopped all drills.. on purpose haven't done any since


I hit 4 or 5 racks everyday just to shoot..I just tried to stay in stroke..

.I stopped all focus on what I was doing.. and put all focus into the balls...

I simply stopped worrying about mechanics at all ... I stopped aiming... I stopped TRYING to play pool.. and just did it..

every single day since.. my game has jumped... not just I think I might have been a little better fake jumps... but ... HOLY SHIT.. I haven't missed a ball yet... jumps

do I get to this level of play without the work I put in??? no I don't think so

did I get better by letting go of the leash... YES... but without that guidance I would not be where I am now..


you must ingrain your mechanics until you simply can't do it any other way

and then you must trust it.. and move on...

good luck:grin-square:

 

[softshot]

Great story...The time it takes to ingrain your personal "process" varies from person to person. I've seen people 'get it' in little more than a week or two. Some take longer...what matters is sticking to it, and resisting going back to your 'old established ways', when the new process doesn't give you immediate positive results. You're right...at some point you have to walk away, and just PLAY POOL. Trust in your stroke is an absolute prerequisite to moving to a new level in your playing (which is the competitive application of your new process). A consistent eye pattern is an essential component of this success.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I think the process was pretty well ingrained after the first month..but I kept going out of fear that if I stopped my old technique would come back.. I had the mindset that I wanted to completely obliterate my old style..

hopefully I have done that..

how often should I do the MD's? just for maintenance to keep the bad habits at bay.

once a week?? once a month?? whats your opinion?

 

[pooltchr]

If I am shooting well, I spend about 15 to 20 minutes, 2 or 3 times a week with my MD's. If I hit a snag in my game, I bump it up until things are back to normal.

YMMV

Steve

 

[3kushn]

Athens talks about this a lot. I think it all depends on comfort and confidence. Some people find more confidence on doing everything the same way much like a good free throw shooter in basketball. I say you don't shoot a free throw the same as a lay up or 3 pointer though. End of the day it's still about you and what's keeping you in stroke. Sometimes when you are off and you have a more steady foundation to fall back on you can bust your slump quicker with a more mechanical approach. I like doing what feels good and playing on the "feel" style. There's a problem with that though when it goes bad you don't have much to fall back on. When it's good though, it'll beat a mechanical style. Same goes with kicking systems, aiming systems etc. Just the observations I've made in the game.

End of the day it won't seem near as mechanical when the process is in your subconscious. If you have to tell yourself the steps as you are doing them, you prob arent comfortable with what you are doing. If it all happens without you thinking about it, there will be a natural fluidity in your game.

If mechanics are the issue you need to be mechanical to get it ingrained. Your coaches will make sure it's proper mechanics. Listen to them no matter what happens to your pocketing ability.

I know a couple of guys that have fairly good mechanics but absolutely no rhythm. Rhythm is what people describe as a fluid player IMO. Without a consistent personal tempo it's very difficult to put it all together. I think lack of rhythm may be the point your friend was making.

 

[Spimp13]

If mechanics are the issue you need to be mechanical to get it ingrained. Your coaches will make sure it's proper mechanics. Listen to them no matter what happens to your pocketing ability.

I know a couple of guys that have fairly good mechanics but absolutely no rhythm. Rhythm is what people describe as a fluid player IMO. Without a consistent personal tempo it's very difficult to put it all together. I think lack of rhythm may be the point your friend was making.

While I have been able to get a lot better at determining mechanical errors, sometimes I cannot. The stroke sometimes does not feel fluid, and sometimes I even notice my body does not seem balanced while getting down to shoot the shot, therefore I feel it want to move instead of being steady. It's a work in progress, but very frustrating at the same time. Too many things to work on puts my brain on overload!! It's hard to tell how much time in a training session I need to put in to "ingrain" the goods. After doing some MDs I usually hit 2-3 racks at most and stop for the night. Last night was not a good session. The drills went ok, but the 2 racks were not. I am probably in the "takes a year if not longer" category to really start to get it...gotta keep pluggin. Thanks for the responses.

 

[Scott Lee]

Matt...It sounds to me like you need to redetermine your template (get a ruler), and your process. Remember the template includes your personal stats, and your timing (warmup cycle). In order for your 'process' to become more natural/fluid, and less mechanical, you have to LIKE the process you're trying to ingrain. When I help a student figure out their initial mantra, THEY are the ones that write the words that mean something to them...not the words I might use. That way, since you created it, it becomes easier to train yourself, and make it a subconscious habit. It should not take you a year...maybe a couple of months, but not a year (btw, it's not even been 6 weeks since pool school for you...so it's still early) :grin:. Something is getting in the way, if it takes that long.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

While I have been able to get a lot better at determining mechanical errors, sometimes I cannot. The stroke sometimes does not feel fluid, and sometimes I even notice my body does not seem balanced while getting down to shoot the shot, therefore I feel it want to move instead of being steady. It's a work in progress, but very frustrating at the same time. Too many things to work on puts my brain on overload!! It's hard to tell how much time in a training session I need to put in to "ingrain" the goods. After doing some MDs I usually hit 2-3 racks at most and stop for the night. Last night was not a good session. The drills went ok, but the 2 racks were not. I am probably in the "takes a year if not longer" category to really start to get it...gotta keep pluggin. Thanks for the responses.

 

[Spimp13]

Matt...It sounds to me like you need to redetermine your template (get a ruler), and your process. Remember the template includes your personal stats, and your timing (warmup cycle). In order for your 'process' to become more natural/fluid, and less mechanical, you have to LIKE the process you're trying to ingrain. When I help a student figure out their initial mantra, THEY are the ones that write the words that mean something to them...not the words I might use. That way, since you created it, it becomes easier to train yourself, and make it a subconscious habit. It should not take you a year...maybe a couple of months, but not a year (btw, it's not even been 6 weeks since pool school for you...so it's still early) :grin:. Something is getting in the way, if it takes that long.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Thanks Scott. I hate being results oriented (my curse) so it does get frustrating, but I will re-examine it. After MD's how much more pool should I be playing on a training session at home? Is only a couple of racks enough? I don't want to overdue it, especially when bad or pissed off thoughts occur when things aren't going right. Another thing I notice is I have been playing pretty bad shape. My focus is soley on the process and I can tell I have little control of whitey at the moment making it even more difficult to run out. I need to address that in my template again.

Damn I'm making this more difficult then it needs to be lol...