Too Tough To Shoot?

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ok, i broke them earlier this morning, and ended up with this spread. i decided to try and hit the cue ball with some high left english and take the path as shown. the cue ball was on the rail, which made things a whole lot tougher.

it might be hard to see, but the shot on the 1-Ball was very thin. not sure if the lines are correct, but i didnt get a good hit on the cue ball, and completely missed the 1-Ball.

anyway, what would you posters have done? was this just way too tough of a shot? should i have looked for a safety option?

DCP

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AXXi4BDpW2...UWjK2UXYG1kbBU2kVca2kajt1kawi3kbXM3kPnG3kPWH@
 
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I think all C- and most D-level players could make that shot.

May I suggest bowling, badminton or tiddlywinks??
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
ok, i broke them earlier this morning, and ended up with this spread. i decided to try and hit the cue ball with some high left english and take the path as shown. the cue ball was on the rail, which made things a whole lot tougher.

it might be hard to see, but the shot on the 1-Ball was very thin. not sure if the lines are correct, but i didnt get a good hit on the cue ball, and completely missed the 1-Ball.

anyway, what would you posters have done? was this just way too tough of a shot? should i have looked for a safety option?

DCP

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AWBk4BDpW2...UWjK2UXYG1kbBU2kVca2kajt1kawi3kbXM3kPnG3kPWH@
Click to expand...

You were right to play it, but, as you've suggested, a somewhat conservative approach can be justified here. If the shot on the one scares you a little, don't use any outside english. Maximum english shots played from against the rail can be tough. With center ball, you should make the shot, and the odds are you'll go twice across and though the two will be long and tough, you'll still be able to elect defense then if you choose. The one offers little defense in the layout you've shown, so you must play it. The only decision is how aggressively you should play it, and that's all about your level of play and your own comfort zone.
 
VonRhett said:
I think all C- and most D-level players could make that shot.

May I suggest bowling, badminton or tiddlywinks??
Click to expand...

i've edited the diagram very, very slightly to give everyone a better idea of how thin the shot on the 1-Ball was.

funny, i recall seeing Souquet and Pagulayan missing easier shots in the 2002 U.S. Open final..........

DCP
 
option b

from what your diagram shows you could go one rail and still have a shot on the
two ball in the opposite corner, long and thin but still makeable with good odds
to get on the three ball.
 
What type of bridge did you use? That could have caused you to have the bad hit. In that situation the best bridge is the one where your palm is flat agaisnt side of table and your thumb is pointing straight up. All off your fingers are laying on the rail. From there just a nice smooth stroke. The thin hit on the 1 will allow your cue ball to maintain speed for the 2 rail position.
 
Also, since you will be getting slight masse from being so close to the rail, one thing you may want to try is to aim the one ball thicker, as the cue ball will swerve on it's way to the one. Second, no way you get that much spread off the second rail with left spin. The cue ball angle will straighten out coming back across table. The main idea is not to shoot it so hard as to get hooked behind the six, as that is the direction the cue ball will be going.

Russ
 
DCP;

I assume your not rolling the shot because of the distance needed.

Table/cloth conditons can aide or ruin the shot. With high, on a used cloth, your angles are wrong as the CB would go forward into the rail after contact resulting in a smaller angle coming out.

On new cloth, the high wouldn't take until after coming off the rail and then the CB would lenghten out.

The result of that is that you have to alter the shot, by hitting a little softer or harder and then adjust the contact point on the 1 accordingly.

Perhaps position higher and closer to mid table may be an easier option for you as the execution would be easier because of the speed difference.

Mike
 
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And of course, one thing nobody mentioned is, you might need to work on your cueball control on the break. I mean, if you got kissed to this position, then I understand completely, but it looks like you might have let your cue ball go forward off the break.

The thing is, if you have a solid, "jump back a foot and squat" break, then you won't be shooting off the rail that often. Rather than working on complicated position routes off the rail, you'd be much better served working on your break, so you end up in this position many fewer times in the future.

Good luck,

Russ
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
ok, i broke them earlier this morning, and ended up with this spread. i decided to try and hit the cue ball with some high left english and take the path as shown. the cue ball was on the rail, which made things a whole lot tougher.

it might be hard to see, but the shot on the 1-Ball was very thin. not sure if the lines are correct, but i didnt get a good hit on the cue ball, and completely missed the 1-Ball.

anyway, what would you posters have done? was this just way too tough of a shot? should i have looked for a safety option?

DCP

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AXXi4BDpW2...UWjK2UXYG1kbBU2kVca2kajt1kawi3kbXM3kPnG3kPWH@
Click to expand...

Because even if you miss the two, with the kick off the rail you still leave the 2 behind the 9 and your opponent has a horrible shot.
I would have done it the same way, but since you have to hit the top of the ball anyways, I'd roll it like this. I know these cuetables don't show exactly what the table looks like, but from what you are showing, with some good top left I'd attempt it like this.

CueTable Help

 
Yokel said:
Because even if you miss the two, with the kick off the rail you still leave the 2 behind the 9 and your opponent has a horrible shot.
I would have done it the same way, but since you have to hit the top of the ball anyways, I'd roll it like this. I know these cuetables don't show exactly what the table looks like, but from what you are showing, with some good top left I'd attempt it like this.

CueTable Help

Click to expand...

The cue ball path as diagrammed is not possible, even with draw on the cue ball, which is close to impossible to get with the cue ball frozen to the rail.

Russ
 
The shot appears to be very workable with good percentage but only if it can be done with as level a cue as possable. Once you find that you need to raise the back end of the cue to apply a little draw or more side spin then now you are taking a chance of something going wrong.

When we elevate the butt of our cue stick the shot becomes much more difficult because of the slight masse that is applied. At this point we are taking our chances. Maybe it's time to think push out or to play safe.
 
I think Yokel was talking about killing the cue ball on the rail with alot of top and left. Tough shot, but possible with a killer stroke.

Also, Russ I think that you will get "deflection" not "Masse" as you mentioned earlier.

I personally would make the one with top, go 2 or 3 rails and play safe or cut the two ball in.

Russ...
 
poolhustler said:
I think Yokel was talking about killing the cue ball on the rail with alot of top and left. Tough shot, but possible with a killer stroke.

Also, Russ I think that you will get "deflection" not "Masse" as you mentioned earlier.

I personally would make the one with top, go 2 or 3 rails and play safe or cut the two ball in.

Russ...
Click to expand...

Since you will be jacked up on the rail, you will get both. Depending on the speed of the stroke, you will get differing amounts of deflection to the right (when left english is applied), and then the cue ball will start to masse towards the english (left). When hit at medium speed with a full 4 1/2 feet to the OB, the masse will affect the shot more than the deflection..

Whenever you execute a masse, you get deflection away from the side of the english. The ultimate example of this is a piquet shot, where the cue ball deflects 180 degrees to the eventual path of travel.

Russ
 
Actually, the cut on the 1 is not difficult enough to have you thinking that playing it was a foolish choice. However, position on the 2 can be tricky. For one, because you're jacked up on the rail, unless you feel comfortable with an elevated cue with a little bit of curve, then you're limited to nothing but follow with a little bit of left at best. Because you have to go two rails to get to the 2, the first inclination would be to hit it with some speed. However, it's too much speed that will run the risk of hitting the cushions too hard and shortening your angles. Cut the 1 a little thinner with a little of top left to allow you to hit it with a slow enough speed for the CB to take good angles off the cushions and you should be fine.
I might add, that even if you're not trying to get draw action, you'll still get better results with a slightly elevated cue, so this type of shot is a "must learn to do" that should be worked into your practice routine. Learn to use the slight masse that you'll get when elevating your cue in such situations.
dave
 

CueTable Help



Just a quick note about a tool in CueTable which has not been used often: Tangent Line (ideas from Tony Robles and Mike Massey).

In this diagram it looks not quite possible to have the CB draw back as shown, even if the CB is not on the rail :)
 
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VonRhett said:
I think all C- and most D-level players could make that shot.

May I suggest bowling, badminton or tiddlywinks??
Click to expand...

Does it make you feel good to be snide towards others ? :rolleyes: I don't think there is anything wrong with DrCueProtege's post at all.
 
cuetable said:
In this diagram it looks not quite possible to have the CB draw back as shown, even if the CB is not on the rail :)
Click to expand...

Hey, I like that tool :D

And normaly yes, it would sound like it wouldn't move like that, except I wouldn't be trying to draw it back :) After looking at your diagram, the cue ball wouldn't hit quite so far toward center table on the rail...

But I'd put $10 on the line that if I tried that shot 5 times I wouldn't screw up more than twice :p
 
Yokel said:
Hey, I like that tool :D

And normaly yes, it would sound like it wouldn't move like that, except I wouldn't be trying to draw it back :) After looking at your diagram, the cue ball wouldn't hit quite so far toward center table on the rail...

But I'd put $10 on the line that if I tried that shot 5 times I wouldn't screw up more than twice :p
Click to expand...
Print this out and put it in your case. If you are going to be at Valley Forge next year you got a bet.

That shot is impossible, the cut on the 1 ball is entirely to thin.
 
I'd get as fat a hit on the cb as you can.
That means no english.
Shoot for two rails and be ready to take the safe if the shot is too hard.
 
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