Top 3 Most Marketable US Players (Male)

[TheOne]

Yes, I know, by way of Canada.



I did not blame the European robots for the demise of American pool. Try not to take words out of context, Craig.

I did state, however, that their style of play on American television sets is boring, emotionless, and robotic. If they play here in America, they are, in essence, contributing to American pool when it is televised on American TV.



Let's get the story right. It was the WPA who approached "your" flamboyant American conman, DEMANDING a fee for the privilege of "your" flamboyant American conman to invest tens of millions of dollars in American pool. The WPA seems to show up on American soil if they can pocket some American dough.



Again, you are taking words out of context, and I hasten to say this thread is becoming a back-and-forth colloquy between your view and my view. Where, Craig, did I say a player cheating is more marketable than a player acting professionally?



And your point?

I have no fantasy that it is only Europeans and Asians. I singled them out because these European and Asian players have flocked to the United States in the droves, looking to pocket some American pool monies. The Korean ladies seemed to like American pool because, quite frankly, there was a time when Korea tournaments for women didn't pay very well.



Where in the world, Craig, have you gotten this cheating agenda? I don't recall mentioning pool players cheating.



Now you're fishing. I have NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER condoned cheating. Yet, you now bring it up in this thread. WTF!

JAM

I agree, lets leave the Asians and Europeans out of it and get back on topic! But I would like to share this with you first if you don't mind.

Recently a young player from China called Ding has been making a big name for himself in the Snooker world. You would describe him as robotic I'm sure (and Earl would prob do a mocking dance ). He rarely smiles and has been described as emotionless etc etc.

Truth be told Snooker has few characters like the old days as the game has become more and more cut throat the players have turned more and more professional, almost ruthless in their quest to succeed. Some comments from worldsnooker.com, the commercial body of the WPBSA:

"As the owner of the sport’s commercial rights, World Snooker also negotiates sponsorship for tournaments as well as television contracts. Snooker is one of the most popular sports in the United Kingdom and is played by over 4 million adults. It attracts vast television audiences; the 2005 World Championship final was watched by a peak figure of 7.8 million on the BBC. 45% of the UK population (25 million) watched 15 minutes or more of the coverage.

The sport’s popularity is also growing rapidly in many countries around the globe. In 2004, World Snooker signed a deal with Eurosport to beam snooker into 51 different territories, with a reach of 95 million homes across Europe, North Africa and the Middle East. Viewing figures are particularly high in countries such as Germany, Belgium and Holland.

In the Far East, the snooker boom is developing at pace. The China Open staged in Beijing in 2005 was enthusiastically received by Chinese fans. A stagering 110 million people watched live on television as Ding Junhui beat Stephen Hendry in the final to elevate himself to the status of national hero.

The WPBSA also deals specifically with the rules and regulations of snooker as well as disciplinary matters. The WPBSA board is chaired by Sir Rodney Walker and also includes Sir David Richards, Mike Dunn, Jim McMahon, Dr Hamish McInnes, Lee Doyle and Peter Ebdon. World Snooker’s headquarters is in Bristol. Click here for contact details.

It also has a commercial base in London:
14-16 Great Portland St
London
W1W 8QW

And an office in China:
World Snooker China (Beijing)
Representative Office Suite 1532
15 Floor
NCI Tower
12A Jianguomenwai Avenue
Chaoyang District
100022 Beijing
China
Tel 00 86 010 8523 3059
Fax 00 86 010 8523 3001"


I share this with you because of two reasons:

1) It proves that even emotionless professional "european/Asian robots" have mass appeal on TV.

2) World Snooker have realised this early and have already setup office in China, their only office outside the UK.

The very type of players you lambaste are no doubt currently saving Snooker, wouldn't it be ironic if they also save Pool?

 

[JAM]

...I share this with you because of two reasons:

1) It proves that even emotionless professional "european/Asian robots" have mass appeal on TV.

2) World Snooker have realised this early and have already setup office in China, their only office outside the UK.

The very type of players you lambaste are no doubt currently saving Snooker, wouldn't it be ironic if they also save Pool?

Thank you for sharing that.

However, snooker being popular in the United States will get as much appeal as -- what do ya'll call football in England?

American pool is in my opinion a different animal than snooker. Robotic and emotionless players will not attract mainstream America. Americans, IMHO, enjoy seeing a little emotion in sports. Professionalism and dignity doesn't have anything to do with players being marketable if the professional dignified pool players shoot pool like zombies.

JAM

 

[JoeyA]

Craig, I am trying to stay on topic with this thread: marketing of AMERICANmale pool players.

The European players come to American soil to compete in American events. The more the merrier, I say. Unlike other countries, I am proud to be an American where we open our doors and allow anybody to compete in our pool events. I cannot say the same about other nations and how they welcome American pool players.

Why can't the Brits align themselves with Americans in pool, as they do in other international affairs? I hope that your viewpoint as a Brit is in the minority, Craig.

JAM

JAM, as usual you are right on the money with your posts. I too believe the more the merrier and I too believe that ALL PLAYERS NEED TO contribute to promoting pool here in America AND EVERYWHERE ELSE. It simply makes for a bigger pie for all of us to enjoy, whether we be players or fans.

KUDOS to you, JAM for hitting the nail on the head once again.

Craig, you need to get on board with the points JAM made in this post but even so I enjoy hearing other perspectives such as yours if nothing more to better understand where they are coming from.

REP to you JAM.
Thanks.
JoeyA

 

[sjm]

ALL PLAYERS NEED TO contribute to promoting pool here in America AND EVERYWHERE ELSE.

Exactly right. Tap, tap, tap.

 

[TheOne]

Thank you for sharing that.

However, snooker being popular in the United States will get as much appeal as -- what do ya'll call football in England?

American pool is in my opinion a different animal than snooker. Robotic and emotionless players will not attract mainstream America. Americans, IMHO, enjoy seeing a little emotion in sports. Professionalism and dignity doesn't have anything to do with players being marketable if the professional dignified pool players shoot pool like zombies.

JAM

Maybe they won't attract America, but like football surely it's better to have a multi million dollar global tour that American players can play on than nothing at all? I'm sure the many American footballers that now play in the UK and other nations are very grateful for this fact. It's quite ironic now that football is seeing a resurgence in America (yes even without the 2 footballs and massive goals! ). New purpose built stadiums are being built, it's still one of if not the most popular game played at colleges, and how much is Beckham getting again....£250m?

Joey,

I'm sorry I will never agree with JAM with regards to Earl or labeling TWO whole continents of players robots!. As SJM said JAM gives Earl a free pass and I don't agree with it either.

Earl is a great player (prob the greatest 9 baller ever) and a funny dude most of the time. However just being great doesn't give any player the right to do as they please. IMO they have a duty to their sport, specifically players should not quit any match that spectators have paid to see, be abusive or barrack other players while at the table or cheat in any other way.

This should apply to everyone no matter how many people want to stand in a back room and enjoy a freak show! As I have stated many times in this thread players like Alex, Rodney, Chamat etc have bags of personality but don't cross the line.

As far as "robots" are concerned the facts just don't back up what your saying. I think you will agree that Asians probably show the least emotion both in pool and snooker. If this is the case and they are so unattractive why does the Asian tour attract so many TV viewers and now, finally top sponsors? Also how why would 110m viewers want to watch Hendry v Ding play Snooker, that's about as characterless a pair you'll ever find around a billiard table!

Now if America had hundreds of Millions watching Earl trying to deny he fouled and the Asian pool or snooker playing "robots" where struggling to attract any viewers or sponsors I'd probably take on board your points.

 

[TheOne]

ALL PLAYERS NEED TO contribute to promoting pool here in America AND EVERYWHERE ELSE.

Hey that's my point! LOL

 

[JoeyA]

Hey that's my point! LOL

While I understand your perspective about Earl and don't disagree with it entirely, I apparently missed your point that I was attempting to make about all players doing their part to promote pool. Earl is a draw. He has paid his dues. He has earned his right to some eccentricities but I will agree that he NOR ANY OTHER POOL PLAYER has the right to disrespect another pool player or fan. And unless you have seen how some "spectators" try to draw Earl's ire out then you can't understand Earl's perspective. I have witnessed spectators taunting Earl and that isn't right either. He should be allowed to play his best game without sharking and distractions and some just don't want to see his best play IMHO.

There should be a school that professional pool players must attend if they are to be a welcome part of our community. The school should include "short" seminars on what they should be doing when fans are milling around ogling them and they aren't playing pool. It could be as simple as giving a nod and a smile and nothing more. A kind word goes a long way with fans and an autograph for some is second only to winning a game with the pro.

Hell, while I am on the subject, the fans could use some schooling as well and I am talking about ALL OVER THE WORLD. Respect should be a universal requirement for players and fans.

Let's get it together, globally.

Maybe we can get AZ to start an ETIQUETE Forum/Seminar for players and one for spectators. zzzzzzzzzz......

Seriously, it really is all about respect and it starts with each one of us, individually, as players and spectators.
JoeyA

 

[TheOne]

While I understand your perspective about Earl and don't disagree with it entirely, I apparently missed your point that I was attempting to make about all players doing their part to promote pool. Earl is a draw. He has paid his dues. He has earned his right to some eccentricities but I will agree that he NOR ANY OTHER POOL PLAYER has the right to disrespect another pool player or fan. And unless you have seen how some "spectators" try to draw Earl's ire out then you can't understand Earl's perspective. I have witnessed spectators taunting Earl and that isn't right either. He should be allowed to play his best game without sharking and distractions and some just don't want to see his best play IMHO.

I am pleased that you agree on this point. I agree with you that Earl does get baited, I think to a certain extent he has brought it on himself BUT I think it's still no excuse and those "fans" should of course be thrown out. I have experienced Earl first hand myself as others will probably tell you, believe me he should never be allowed to complain about sharking!

But boxers get spat on the way to the ring, footballers have to listen to thousands of fans chanting that they are fat and have ugly wives! They take it because they are professional sportsmen/women and they have to set an example, if they don't they get fined and banned.

There should be a school that professional pool players must attend if they are to be a welcome part of our community. The school should include "short" seminars on what they should be doing when fans are milling around ogling them and they aren't playing pool. It could be as simple as giving a nod and a smile and nothing more. A kind word goes a long way with fans and an autograph for some is second only to winning a game with the pro.

Hell, while I am on the subject, the fans could use some schooling as well and I am talking about ALL OVER THE WORLD. Respect should be a universal requirement for players and fans.

Let's get it together, globally.

Maybe we can get AZ to start an ETIQUETE Forum/Seminar for players and one for spectators. zzzzzzzzzz......

Seriously, it really is all about respect and it starts with each one of us, individually, as players and spectators.
JoeyA

Agree with most of that Joey. Bottom line is kids copy their idols, the last thing we want is a thousand kids trying to deny they fouled, walking out on matches, and abusing fans. If this happens then its goodbye every sponsor and RIP pool.

 

[JAM]

While I understand your perspective about Earl and don't disagree with it entirely, I apparently missed your point that I was attempting to make about all players doing their part to promote pool. Earl is a draw. He has paid his dues. He has earned his right to some eccentricities but I will agree that he NOR ANY OTHER POOL PLAYER has the right to disrespect another pool player or fan. And unless you have seen how some "spectators" try to draw Earl's ire out then you can't understand Earl's perspective. I have witnessed spectators taunting Earl and that isn't right either. He should be allowed to play his best game without sharking and distractions and some just don't want to see his best play IMHO.

There should be a school that professional pool players must attend if they are to be a welcome part of our community. The school should include "short" seminars on what they should be doing when fans are milling around ogling them and they aren't playing pool. It could be as simple as giving a nod and a smile and nothing more. A kind word goes a long way with fans and an autograph for some is second only to winning a game with the pro.

Hell, while I am on the subject, the fans could use some schooling as well and I am talking about ALL OVER THE WORLD. Respect should be a universal requirement for players and fans.

Let's get it together, globally.

Maybe we can get AZ to start an ETIQUETE Forum/Seminar for players and one for spectators. zzzzzzzzzz......

Seriously, it really is all about respect and it starts with each one of us, individually, as players and spectators.
JoeyA

This is the BEST post in the whole thread. Joey, you are right on the money [PUN INTENDED].

And Craig, ONCE AGAIN, I never stated all European and Asian players were emotionless robots when they play pool. You, however, have continued to use this as your platform to defend the blue-blooded stuck-up attitude of non-American players. The style of European play is quite different than that of Americans.

Here in America, we enjoy rooting for the home team. Now the home team is competing on American soil with Asian-Pacific Islanders, Europeans, and a whole host of other nationalities. It is bad enough that America has turned its back on American pool players, but what's worse is watching the emotionless robotic aliens from other countries strutting their stuff on TV. It is boring, and it sucks. I do not think mainstream America would be attracted to pool when they see this style of play on American television.

Go to the DCC and check out the unrestrained gambling and hustling. When you witness the THOUSANDS of attendees, pool players, fans, and pool enthusiasts flocking Louisville each year, you may get a better idea of what may just be the CHANGE AGENT to elevating pool as a sport.

This is the "magic," if you will, that the Americans I know and speak to like about American pool. It is currently absent in televised events here in the States, with the strong exception of the Skins Billiards Championship.

God bless pool players around the world, but I pray for a special blessing to American champions like Earl Strickland who continues his merry way on the tournament trail. I'm beginning to think that maybe Earl was right when he made that comment about London.

JAM

 

[epicures]

invasion of the robots?

I'm having a hard time understanding this characterization of European and Asian players as emotionless robots. This may be tangential to the main point of the thread, but this stereotype has been tossed around enough in this thread that I think it merits addressing.

How about:

Mika Immonen
Marcus Chamat
Fabio Petroni
Evgeny Stalev
Steve Davis (always a good sense of humor)
Ronnie O'Sullivan (if he shoots pool again)
Efren Reyes
Francisco Bustamante
Jose Parica
Alex Pagulayan
Wu Chia Ching (still has that "young prodigy" appeal)
Yang Chin Shun (though he maybe appears emotionless while playing, he seems to stir up emotion & attention wherever he plays)

This is just off the top of my head.

Others, like Hohmann, Souquet, and Chao may have a more clinical approach at the pool table, but they project a passion through their intense focus that is captivating for many pool players to watch. And let's not forget Souquet's emotional display at last year's WPC finals, or Hohmann's recent "challenge match" videos with Paul Sorvino that were posted to this forum. I think this guy's got more marketing potential than I thought at first.

I honestly think this notion of European and Asian robots is a myth. Are there boring European & Asian players? Sure. But I can think of tons of American players who are just as bland to watch as anyone in the European or Asian contingent. Maybe some posters find them more colorful because they know them personally. But to me, as an average American pool fan who doesn't know the pros personally but loves watching them on TV, the European and Asian players are every bit as exciting to watch as the Americans.

Andrew

 

[TheOne]

I'm having a hard time understanding this characterization of European and Asian players as emotionless robots. This may be tangential to the main point of the thread, but this stereotype has been tossed around enough in this thread that I think it merits addressing.

How about:

Mika Immonen
Marcus Chamat
Fabio Petroni
Evgeny Stalev
Steve Davis (always a good sense of humor)
Ronnie O'Sullivan (if he shoots pool again)
Efren Reyes
Francisco Bustamante
Jose Parica
Alex Pagulayan
Wu Chia Ching (still has that "young prodigy" appeal)
Yang Chin Shun (though he maybe appears emotionless while playing, he seems to stir up emotion & attention wherever he plays)

This is just off the top of my head.

Others, like Hohmann, Souquet, and Chao may have a more clinical approach at the pool table, but they project a passion through their intense focus that is captivating for many pool players to watch. And let's not forget Souquet's emotional display at last year's WPC finals, or Hohmann's recent "challenge match" videos with Paul Sorvino that were posted to this forum. I think this guy's got more marketing potential than I thought at first.

I honestly think this notion of European and Asian robots is a myth. Are there boring European & Asian players? Sure. But I can think of tons of American players who are just as bland to watch as anyone in the European or Asian contingent. Maybe some posters find them more colorful because they know them personally. But to me, as an average American pool fan who doesn't know the pros personally but loves watching them on TV, the European and Asian players are every bit as exciting to watch as the Americans.

Andrew

I totally agree. As you rightly said there's just as many American, Canadian, Iranian, Korean (ok maybe not the last two) pool playing "robots" as anywhere else, BUT JAM didn't say the American "robots" should also contribute to pool she singled out two whole races of players!

I fear that JAM's opinions are born out of a deep seated bitterness towards the lack of money in pool. It's those nasty "foreigners" fault for coming to America and taking all our winnings! In the same way it's the WPA's and NOT the Billiard Congress of AMERICAs fault for the lack of an American tour.

 

[JAM]

I'm having a hard time understanding this characterization of European and Asian players as emotionless robots. This may be tangential to the main point of the thread, but this stereotype has been tossed around enough in this thread that I think it merits addressing.

How about....

And I can name more of our foreign brethren of players than you can whom I enjoy watching compete.

The stereotype, as you put it, was created by TheOne when he stated that I labeled ALL -- not a few, not one or two, not four or five -- but ALL European and Asian players as emotionless robots.

Hope this clarifies my point and makes it crystal clear.

JAM

 

[JAM]

I totally agree. As you rightly said there's just as many American, Canadian, Iranian, Korean (ok maybe not the last two) pool playing "robots" as anywhere else, BUT JAM didn't say the American "robots" should also contribute to pool she singled out two whole races of players!

I fear that JAM's opinions are born out of a deep seated bitterness towards the lack of money in pool. It's those nasty "foreigners" fault for coming to America and taking all our winnings! In the same way it's the WPA's and NOT the Billiard Congress of AMERICAs fault for the lack of an American tour.

The only words that come to mind are "blue blood" and "stuck up" when I read your opinion about my opinion.

Am I bitter? You betcha I am.

JAM

 

[TheOne]

This is the BEST post in the whole thread. Joey, you are right on the money [PUN INTENDED].

And Craig, ONCE AGAIN, I never stated all European and Asian players were emotionless robots when they play pool. You, however, have continued to use this as your platform to defend the blue-blooded stuck-up attitude of non-American players. The style of European play is quite different than that of Americans.

Here in America, we enjoy rooting for the home team. Now the home team is competing on American soil with Asian-Pacific Islanders, Europeans, and a whole host of other nationalities. It is bad enough that America has turned its back on American pool players, but what's worse is watching the emotionless robotic aliens from other countries strutting their stuff on TV. It is boring, and it sucks. I do not think mainstream America would be attracted to pool when they see this style of play on American television.

Go to the DCC and check out the unrestrained gambling and hustling. When you witness the THOUSANDS of attendees, pool players, fans, and pool enthusiasts flocking Louisville each year, you may get a better idea of what may just be the CHANGE AGENT to elevating pool as a sport.

This is the "magic," if you will, that the Americans I know and speak to like about American pool. It is currently absent in televised events here in the States, with the strong exception of the Skins Billiards Championship.

God bless pool players around the world, but I pray for a special blessing to American champions like Earl Strickland who continues his merry way on the tournament trail. I'm beginning to think that maybe Earl was right when he made that comment about London.

JAM

You said words to the effect of Asian / European emotionless robots. You didn't say the American and European or Asian emotionless robots. You didn't criticize a single American player, is every single American pool player a walking entertainment show? Aren't any of them "emotionless robots" (oops sorry I missed "Aliens" which you so kindly added)? (or focussed professionals as I prefer to call them )

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by "blue-blooded stuck-up attitude" but again I only take exception to your blanket stereo typed derogatory comments of players based on race!

So let me get this straight, the DCC which I need to visit in person (because it's not on TV) is a better product than the "emotionless robotic aliens from other countries strutting their stuff on TV"

This is quite possibly the most hilarious thing you've ever said, can you spot the difference?

TV!

I rest my case your honor!

 

[crosseyedjoe]

And if it's not the WPA's responsibility to promote pool in America, their presence here in the States seems to me to pale in comparison to their presence in European countries. This is my opinion, speaking as an American. I don't see much effort on the WPA's part to have any involvement with American pool, unless, of course, it is pocketing a fee to any organizer who wants to have a pool tournament with world-class players. Then, all of a sudden, the WPA makes a presence in the U.S. with their hands open for the American organizations to give them monies for the privilege of hosting a tournament.
JAM

BCA is WPA's representative in USA. It's the BCA that is not doing it's part. Seems like BCA wants to become a pool equipment conglomerate instead.

By the way, this is how the major WPA tournaments are distributed as of now.

World Artistic Pool - USA
World 9-ball - Europe now Philippines
World 8-ball - Middle-Eastern Region
World Straight Pool - Europe
World Pyramind - Russian Region

I don't see any particular preference to any region.

 

[TheOne]

BCA is WPA's representative in USA. It's the BCA that is not doing it's part. Seems like BCA wants to become a pool equipment conglomerate instead.

Spot on, I'm tired of trying to make this point!

JAM,

I admire your nationalism, I really do, I am VERY patriotic also but you can't keep blaming everyone else.

Surely you must accept that maybe just maybe something or someone American might be responsible for the current lack of a professional American tour? As you know I thought the UPA was very close before the IPT came along in creating the best tour on the planet, hopefully will start again this year where they left off.

Unity in my opinion is the critical FIRST step no matter what you think of the UPA in the past. If America gets all it's crown jewel tournaments under one banner with a professional code of conduct then you will at least have a product to take to the sponsors and TV companies.

However then I'm afraid you might get invaded by all those pesky Aliens again!

 

[JAM]

You said words to the effect of Asian / European emotionless robots. You didn't say the American and European or Asian emotionless robots. You didn't criticize a single American player, is every single American pool player a walking entertainment show? Aren't any of them "emotionless robots"....

And you ain't gonna hear one single criticism emanating from my fingertips about American players. The American culture does a good enough job beating them down as if they are not deserving of anything, other than to be a whipping post and a scapegoat for the state of pool in the United States.

If you desire to read some Americans beating down American players, just take a ride on the forum and check it out for yourself.

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by "blue-blooded stuck-up attitude" but again I only take exception to your blanket stereo typed derogatory comments of players based on race!

No wonder that they decided to have that gigantic tea party in Boston. I mean, the nerve of those nasty Americans wanting to be shown respect as others in the pool world.

So let me get this straight, the DCC which I need to visit in person (because it's not on TV) is a better product than the "emotionless robotic aliens from other countries strutting their stuff on TV"

No, silly. Again, you take words out of context, and you're not even that good at it. The "magic" displayed at the DCC is proof positive that American-style pool consists of an element which some choose to forget, and that is GAMBLING and HUSTLING.

Can you hear me now?

This is quite possibly the most hilarious thing you've ever said, can you spot the difference?

TV!

I rest my case your honor!

To the posters of the thread, please disregard the closing argument of the Brit. He is misguided and does not have a full comprehension of American pool. His statements in the form of a smoke screen are, therefore, misleading, vague, ambiguous, and unintelligible.

For the purposes of marketing American players, the Brit's closing remarks will not be admitted as evidence. Case closed!

JAM

 

[JAM]

BCA is WPA's representative in USA. It's the BCA that is not doing it's part. Seems like BCA wants to become a pool equipment conglomerate instead.

By the way, this is how the major WPA tournaments are distributed as of now.

World Artistic Pool - USA
World 9-ball - Europe now Philippines
World 8-ball - Middle-Eastern Region
World Straight Pool - Europe
World Pyramind - Russian Region

I don't see any particular preference to any region.

Thanks for the interesting factoid!

Billiard Congress of America. What does the name mean? What is it a congress of? It represents the interests of industry members and not the interests of American billiard players.

JAM

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Speaking of which? how is snooker doing in the marketing department?

 

[TheOne]

GAMBLING and HUSTLING.

Can you hear me now?

Yep loud and clear, but how does this fit into your comment not so long ago e.g. "Gambling is a disease"? Or did you not say that either?

To the posters of the thread, please disregard the closing argument of the Brit. He is misguided and does not have a full comprehension of American pool. His statements in the form of a smoke screen are, therefore, misleading, vague, ambiguous, and unintelligible.

For the purposes of marketing American players, the Brit's closing remarks will not be admitted as evidence. Case closed!

JAM

I feared your original comments were racist in nature, judging by your recent comments I think sadly you've shown this to be the case.

I have no time for racists, you really need to invest in a passport JAM you might get a better perspective of the world.