Top english change to draw after bounces of bottom rail

madmiller said:
Thanks.
It was such a long discussion so I got confused lol.
The shot that I linked to is made using top left ( around 11-30) english so the ball draws back to the rail after hitting the rail rebounding from the ob
Click to expand...

We all know about that shot and see a lot of amateurs get stuck at one end of the table with it when they were in fact attempting to hit the shot firm to get all the way back to the other end of the table, not realizing that you can't hit the object ball that full with follow at that speed or it will die off the end rail. You have to hit the OB thinner (if it's a hanger) so the CB doesn't pick up the over-spin, or not hit the shot so hard, which is counter-intuitive to the beginning player.
 
Last edited:
Yes, that's (I think) what the OP was talking about. I've seen that shot before, and have a pretty good stroke, tried it a couple dozen times and never got close from that distance... Not sure if he was using a slicked up cue ball or not, probably not knowing him... :)

I don't think the effect, given the difficulty, is useful in a regular game. As Dr. Dave's vids show, if you are kicking a ball and trying to leave it near the rail best to hit it full off the rail and just use normal roll when close to the rail or maybe draw when a bit further away to delay the stun effect. Especially at the speeds usually used when trying to just kick it up table.


BTW, nice vid 8pack! Some good shots and very cool cinematography!!

Scott
 
Last edited:
The question I have about the venom video is: would the cue ball have drawn back without contact with the side rail in that shot? It looks like it has stun momentum off the OB and side spin makes it bite back down the rail.
 
JasBy said:
The question I have about the venom video is: would the cue ball have drawn back without contact with the side rail in that shot? It looks like it has stun momentum off the OB and side spin makes it bite back down the rail.
Click to expand...

I thought I saw the same thing, just a hint of sidespin left that contacted the side rail and helped get it back down to the end rail. Without a tricked out cue ball I don't know if it's possible without that assistance, although his stroke is certainly impressive so maybe something else at work - a slight bounce of the end rail, etc.

Scott
 
Black-Balled said:
here you go:
@35 sec
http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v1/y2/r/5l8_EVv_jyW.swf?v=479543462087122&ev=0
Click to expand...

Thanks BB, i think the trick to it is the OB has to be far from the bottom rail so CB has time to recover its spin after it hits the rail; the Venom! trick shot has similar shot too, i will consider Bob's silicon theory too. As far as the old pool room, i missed that room, i was not married at that time, playing with mom and pop's money!, i would go there at 4 or 5 pm and come out at the same time but with AM instead, at times i have to go to the ATM machine and back, man them hustlers !, but i got my revenge from those that are still alive!!!! Just a note, at closing day a one pocket tourney was held back in 1982!, for all regulars, i was the lucky winner $40.00 yeahhhhhh!!

BB where you playing there at any time, or at the Shirlington Champion during 9 ball tournaments!! do not remember! i do remember few names,

Busily (house man-died a year or so ago), Max Eberle when he was young, Billy Stevens (on and off), Kevin B, Buck, king pin, T-Bone, Dex, Ben, Willie, John Boxtail! Lacy, lefty, the officer, the painter (Chuck), carpet man, post man, parts store man (has one hand, and shoots like God, cue off table very accurate. Raouf, and few others do not remember the names! one guy was about 25-30 years old back then, used to practice, good player, and his famous shot was a spot shot, drawing the CB at side rail at same line where spot is (about 2 diamonds from bottom rail), and CB would spin all the way up table..

They had a KENO board at the back room back then..
 
Was good times.

I was not playing too much when Westmont closed...and you are at least a decade off, with your closing date!

I miss it there.

I also miss your Parent's $, I trust they are well still?

BTW, I am still alive. Come get some.


naji said:
Thanks BB, i think the trick to it is the OB has to be far from the bottom rail so CB has time to recover its spin after it hits the rail; the Venom! trick shot has similar shot too, i will consider Bob's silicon theory too. As far as the old pool room, i missed that room, i was not married at that time, playing with mom and pop's money!, i would go there at 4 or 5 pm and come out at the same time but with AM instead, at times i have to go to the ATM machine and back, man them hustlers !, but i got my revenge from those that are still alive!!!! Just a note, at closing day a one pocket tourney was held back in 1982!, for all regulars, i was the lucky winner $40.00 yeahhhhhh!!

BB where you playing there at any time, or at the Shirlington Champion during 9 ball tournaments!! do not remember! i do remember few names,

Busily (house man-died a year or so ago), Max Eberle when he was young, Billy Stevens (on and off), Kevin B, Buck, king pin, T-Bone, Dex, Ben, Willie, John Boxtail! Lacy, lefty, the officer, the painter (Chuck), carpet man, post man, parts store man (has one hand, and shoots like God, cue off table very accurate. Raouf, and few others do not remember the names! one guy was about 25-30 years old back then, used to practice, good player, and his famous shot was a spot shot, drawing the CB at side rail at same line where spot is (about 2 diamonds from bottom rail), and CB would spin all the way up table..

They had a KENO board at the back room back then..
Click to expand...
 
Black-Balled said:
Was good times.

I was not playing too much when Westmont closed...and you are at least a decade off, with your closing date!

I miss it there.

I also miss your Parent's $, I trust they are well still?

BTW, I am still alive. Come get some.
Click to expand...


You are right, it closed on March, 27, 1997.. I started playing there around 1982..

How did i get to know you?


My parents and their $$ gone! God bless..You and I will meet one day BB, come Sunday to Lucy's in Shirlington between 2:00 and 5:00 PM if you can..

Later
 
Sorry to hear about the parents...

We met playing pool, of course. I am sure you used to steal my money and now I want revenge.

Lucy's is a dump.
 
I am pretty sure Jimmy Reid's "No Time for Negative" shows this pretty well. He hit a kick shot off the short rail with top. The cue hits the OB and then spins ever so slightly back to the rail as if it had draw on it.
 
nateobot said:
I am pretty sure Jimmy Reid's "No Time for Negative" shows this pretty well. He hit a kick shot off the short rail with top. The cue hits the OB and then spins ever so slightly back to the rail as if it had draw on it.
Click to expand...

I would love to see him do it? I tried on slow cloth it did not work, maybe on fast cloth maybe!!
 
TASK said:
I think the effect you are describing takes place at the 0:31 second mark of this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WebDFOWB3_8&feature=plcp

I'm not sure how he managed to retain that much spin after hitting three rails, but I having a nagging feeling that it was something more than just slick cloth and a good stroke.
Click to expand...

Bet a nickle the slate/cloth are heated from below. And I THINK (nobody bust my chops) that the issue isn't usually "spin" per se when the CB reverses direction but ROLL.

In other words just ROLL the CB hard into the foot rail from several diamonds up (so it can stop skidding and start rolling) and when it rebounds off the foot rail its forward ROLL wants to continue...but since the direction has changed that roll becomes "draw."

Having said that, there clearly WAS "spin" on the CB on that shot because it accelerated off the OB he struck.

(-:

EagleMan
 
spindoctor9 said:
Why is this thread 7 pages long?? Simple shot, you should be able to do this with a decent stroke. Get higher up on the ball and if you miscue a couple times, oh well. You'll learn to spin the ball faster and in time, you can confidently stroke with max english without having to worry about miscuing. Practice some power spin shots like those in the Kamui videos. Shots like the one you're asking about will make more sense to you and you'll naturally develop a sense for using that touch of left or right needed for different kick angles. I didn't read the thread; it's probably all been said but there's my $.02
Click to expand...

Physics geeks...CHIME IN. Is it POSSIBLE to cause a CB to spin forward faster than it is rolling forward?????

Jack Koehler says yes...in Science of Pocket Billiards...so long as the tip strikes the CB > .45 in. above center. Below that plane, all that happens is that the CB adopts normal roll immediately...instead of skidding for a while.

I am SURE I've read other "noted experts" who deny that however.

And there is the in between. Dr. Dave, for example, in Illustrated Principles (Sept. 2011) suggests that it IS possible to create "overspin" (CB spinning faster than it is rolling) BUT that it is so insignificant relative to "normal roll" (which many people refer to as "topspin"...however correctly or incorrectly) that there is no point in risking a miscue to achieve it.

I will DUCK now and come back after a while!!!

(-:

EagleMan
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top