top player spot on wich table??

wich type of table would you play a top player on getting a spot in 9 ball??

  • tight pocket

    Votes: 43 52.4%

  • big pocket

    Votes: 39 47.6%
  • Total voters
    82
BPG24 said:
You are missing the point obviously...

No one is going to gamble if they can't make balls... Surely you are smart enough to realize that 2 free spot balls isn't that big of a spot whe a top player is giving it... there won't be as much of a difference in ball pocketing skills as you think...

A top pro is 2 balls better than a shortstop... Do you think a shortstop can't get out???
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No, I think you are missing the point. This thread is about a weaker player getting a spot from a top player....not only people that play a short stops speed getting a spot. In case you didnt realize this...alot of people that cant be the 6 ball ghost still gamble....they try and match up to a fair game.

Southpaw
 
Southpaw said:
No, I think you are missing the point. This thread is about a weaker player getting a spot from a top player....not only people that play a short stops speed getting a spot. In case you didnt realize this...alot of people that cant be the 6 ball ghost still gamble....they try and match up to a fair game.

Southpaw
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Dude several people have tried to explain to you why you are wrong...

A "weak" player needs alot more than the 6,7, and 8 from a top pro...

The sooner you figure that out the better...
 
BPG24 said:
Dude several people have tried to explain to you why you are wrong...

A "weak" player needs alot more than the 6,7, and 8 from a top pro...

The sooner you figure that out the better...
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The thread says pick whatever spot you think you need....If I were gonna play a top player I would take the 6 out.....read the original post please.

Southpaw
 
Southpaw said:
The thread says pick whatever spot you think you need....If I were gonna play a top player I would take the 6 out.....read the original post please.

Southpaw
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LMAO... so you can change things around but others can't...

WOW...
 
Southpaw said:
No, I think you are missing the point. This thread is about a weaker player getting a spot from a top player....not only people that play a short stops speed getting a spot. In case you didnt realize this...alot of people that cant be the 6 ball ghost still gamble....they try and match up to a fair game.

Southpaw
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Okay but let's say we have a guy who can't beat the 6-ball ghost is playing a pro. That's basically a C-level player, right? He's going to need something like 5-out wild from someone like a Tony Robles and he'll likely need a little more than that. Tony's "strategy" is going to be very conservative in the early goings of the rack, making sure he has no problems before he proceeds so that he can guarantee once he starts pocketing his opponent's money-balls that he can finish the frame. He has to assume he's going to pocket everything and the only thing that can throw a wrench into his plans is a tight-pocket table. Once he misses, there's no telling if he's going to get a shot and even if he does, if he's going to have sufficient position that will allow him to run out.

I mean, running out when you're in-line on tight equipment is tough enough. Try shooting a recovery shot!
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Okay but let's say we have a guy who can't beat the 6-ball ghost is playing a pro. That's basically a C-level player, right? He's going to need something like 5-out wild from someone like a Tony Robles and he'll likely need a little more than that. Tony's "strategy" is going to be very conservative in the early goings of the rack, making sure he has no problems before he proceeds so that he can guarantee once he starts pocketing his opponent's money-balls that he can finish the frame. He has to assume he's going to pocket everything and the only thing that can throw a wrench into his plans is a tight-pocket table. Once he misses, there's no telling if he's going to get a shot and even if he does, if he's going to have sufficient position that will allow him to run out.

I mean, running out when you're in-line on tight equipment is tough enough. Try shooting a recovery shot!
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Thats the point...on a tighter table he doesnt have to run out every time. His safeties are gonna be that much more effective. Plus he has taken away any chance that the player getting the weight has of running out and making balls on the break. He doesnt have to run out every time to win. A top player will know this and use it to his advantage and a weaker player, especially one getting the 5 out, cant adjust his game like a top player can.

Southpaw
 
Southpaw said:
Thats the point...on a tighter table he doesnt have to run out every time. His safeties are gonna be that much more effective. Plus he has taken away any chance that the player getting the weight has of running out and making balls on the break. He doesnt have to run out every time to win. A top player will know this and use it to his advantage and a weaker player, especially one getting the 5 out, cant adjust his game like a top player can.

Southpaw
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lol, its no use man. Obviously these guys have never gambled with, hung around with, or watched top players gamble. I gave 3 examples of champions that I have personally asked this and I'll call Corey and get his take, but I'm sure he'll say the same thing. These same people are the kind that get trapped up in games that they have way the worst of it because they can't see past their flawed logic.
 
predator said:
On loose equipment, they'll run out everything.
On tight equipment you'll get a few more chances to shoot, but you'll be forced to do more safety escapes for sure.
Either way, you're doomed. If you're significantly weaker player, neither loose nor tight table will save you.
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I think THIS is the right answer. I really don't think it makes a difference. The tighter table is the exact same amount more difficult for the pro and the weaker player. If either one mis-aims or mis-strokes, they are going to miss-maybe a little less on the loose table. So if we assume that the pro might miss a little more on the tight table (and he certainly will in the long run), that just means it is that much more difficult for you to convert on that opportunity. The reason you get more innings is because it is HARDER TO RUN OUT. I play primarily on either a triple shimmed GCII or a 8' table with pocket reducers. I LIKE tight pockets for sure. I am no pro or even close. However, against my friend we sometimes play on a loose table and sometimes on a tight one. If I am really in stroke, it doesn't matter-I will probably win anyway (even with a huge spot). However, if I am NOT in stroke, she will destroy me on the tight table, whereas I might have some chance on the loose one. The problem is, we never know which "me" is going to show up. Same is true for a pro. While they will be way more consistent than the rest of us, they still have the in-stroke/out of stroke issues and catch gears and more gears. A pro in top gear is going to run packages on a tight table-same on a loose one. If they are on, it doesn't matter which table.

My $0.02

KMRUNOUT
 
Here is a great example that maybe some of you can grasp. How much money do you think LilJohn has lost to champions over the last few years? $100,000-$200,000 easy. Why do you think they all want to play him on tight ass diamond tables giving him the 6, 8, and breaks? LilJohn is a very good player, but on a tight table it reduces his ball running, balls made on break, and all confindence he can get. While it also reduces these aspects for a champion, its not near the degree as it is for LilJohn. None of these champions will give this spot on a loose table, but all of them will line up to give it on a tight table. FACT
 
Brian White said that he'd rather get the spot from a champion on a tight table, but at Brian's speed he can run out on any table so the disparity isn't as much. You guys are talking about people that need the 5 out. I'm waiting on Corey to call me back to get his take on it. It may be a case where both parties are right to a certain extent it just matters what speed the lesser player is.
 
corvette1340 said:
Brian White said that he'd rather get the spot from a champion on a tight table, but at Brian's speed he can run out on any table so the disparity isn't as much. You guys are talking about people that need the 5 out. I'm waiting on Corey to call me back to get his take on it. It may be a case where both parties are right to a certain extent it just matters what speed the lesser player is.
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But Brian moves ALOT better than the average player. He wants it to be a moving contest. A player getting the 5 out has no prayer of out moving a top pro so his only chance is to make balls when he gets the chance.

Southpaw
 
corvette1340 said:
It may be a case where both parties are right to a certain extent it just matters what speed the lesser player is.
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Look at the results of the poll, I think it gives a pretty good idea that both parties are right.

I however am not going to play a top player with a lot of weight if I dont think I can perform to my ability and have a shot. For me to have that shot it needs to be on regular tables (i.e. loose) where I can have my own personal confidence. I realize that a top player is going to run packages on them as well, but I would like to think that if the spot is right that I would be able to also. I know that I cant play the same on tighter conditions, and will give a top player the credit that they can, or have the ability to play safe when they cant get out.
 
corvette1340 said:
lol, its no use man. Obviously these guys have never gambled with, hung around with, or watched top players gamble. I gave 3 examples of champions that I have personally asked this and I'll call Corey and get his take, but I'm sure he'll say the same thing. These same people are the kind that get trapped up in games that they have way the worst of it because they can't see past their flawed logic.
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Incredible how dumb the first statement above is...
 
BPG24 said:
Imagine cat, you mange the tooth so its grounds butter for you...
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lol, lets call it a draw man. I think both parties are right it just matters what speed the person getting the spot is.
 
corvette1340 said:
wasnt talking to you Jimmy.
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I do see the argument that you guys are making. I think maybe we all have different opinions of what the assumed weight is here, or how big of a gap there is between the two players who are playing. Maybe everyone wouldn't be so divided in their opinion on this if the particular scenario were better defined. Maybe there isn't one "standard" answer.

I'm no top player but, personally, if I am giving up a significant amount of weight, I would rather do it on pockets that weren't overly tight. However, if I were just giving up a little weight, to someone who played close to my speed, I'd rather do it on tight pockets to force us both to have to play well. I think that's the key here. If there is a huge gap between the two players, the weaker player is really a non-factor (taking luck and other special circumstances out of the equation). It all comes down to what the better player does. If there is a small gap, well now the weaker of the two players has a definite influence on the outcome of the match and, if I were the better player in the match up in that situation, I'd want the conditions to be tough for both of us.
 
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