top player spot on wich table??

[BPG24]

I can have a mature and intellectual debate about a topic on a public forum without resorting to calling people who do not agree with me names. So, you are gonna have a tough time convincing me that I was out of line. By the way, this makes 2 threads where you have done your best to "ignite" problems. The other is your B/S/T thread. I will continue to have a debate about this thread with you, but Im not getting into a mud slinging contest....you can be the winner of that.

Southpaw

I am not trying to ignite problems... See obviously you have trouble understanding what you read...

Otherwise you wouldn't say this...

I proved my point, you thought I was saying something that I was clearly not... That is your fault, whether you like it or not...

I never said that guy (who ever he is) couldn't match up as good as me...
You dreamed that up all on your own... Go back and read it... So you don't look more foolish

 

[ccshrimper]

lol, the title of this thread is "TOP PLAYER spot on which table" and asks which table you'd prefer to get a spot on if you were playing a TOP PLAYER. And if you'd prefer to get a spot from a top player on a tight table then you are playing into most of their hands. I can't speak for every top pro, but most of them tend to think alike on shooting related topics and the fact is that every top player I know would prefer to give a spot to a lesser player on a tight table. FACT

I agree 100%. I'm not a top player but usually I play smarter than anyone I'm giving the 6 or 7 out to and can out safety play/kick them easily. Now, if my break isn't working or I scratch a couple times on a loose table they can run out 4 to 6 balls, maybe get some on the break or combos they wouldn't make on a tight table. A weaker player WILL crap in more balls and the rolls will come into play more on a loose table from my experience.

 

[dogginda9]

Give me buckets or give me ................

It's a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. I played a champion once getting the 7 and the break. Played on a triple shimmed Gold Crown III. I played great and still lost 11-9. I missed 1 ball. Problem was, he didn't even "look" like he was gonna miss nor get out of line at all. The table was so tight, I made very few balls on the break. I offered to move over 1 table and bet a little more, but was politely declined.

 

[Masayoshi]

It's a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. I played a champion once getting the 7 and the break. Played on a triple shimmed Gold Crown III. I played great and still lost 11-9. I missed 1 ball. Problem was, he didn't even "look" like he was gonna miss nor get out of line at all. The table was so tight, I made very few balls on the break. I offered to move over 1 table and bet a little more, but was politely declined.

just a question, but how did you get 9 games on him if you made very few balls on the break and he never missed or got out of line?

 

[AZE]

tighter pockets, no if's and's or but's about it.

The bottom line is if you're playing a better player getting a money ball spot you're going to want to play on tighter equipment, if you don't know that you do now, and if you don't want to believe it then have a good day

 

[Jimmy M.]

tighter pockets, no if's and's or but's about it.

The bottom line is if you're playing a better player getting a money ball spot you're going to want to play on tighter equipment, if you don't know that you do now, and if you don't want to believe it then have a good day

What is being overlooked here by "the other camp", I think, is the fact that, in many (and I would argue "most") cases, the outcome of a match is based purely on the performance of the better player. If the better player plays their game, they win. Sure, there are circumstance that could come into play, but that is why I said "many" or "most" (not "all") cases. The tables don't need to be easier so that the weaker player can play better. The weaker player can't play so good that the better player can't win. It just can't happen (in the long run); that's what makes the better player "better" (doh!). They need the better player to make some mistakes - even getting weight.

Now before I get jumped on by some of you, yes, I understand that there are special-case situations where the things I just said might not hold true. HOWEVER, this is a general rule of thumb, and the original question that was posed in this thread did not specify any special-cases. You can always find exceptions to any rule, but they don't necessarily invalidate the rule.

 

[hemicudas]

It's a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. I played a champion once getting the 7 and the break. Played on a triple shimmed Gold Crown III. I played great and still lost 11-9. I missed 1 ball. Problem was, he didn't even "look" like he was gonna miss nor get out of line at all. The table was so tight, I made very few balls on the break. I offered to move over 1 table and bet a little more, but was politely declined.

This should be the ultimate testimony and explanation why it really is a "NO BRAINER". Yet about half the people responding to this thread have it totally wrong. People question your honesty, because they obviously can't be wrong, LOL. They are wrong.

This is the only exception,
A snooker table. If you can get a single ball spot on a snooker table playing 9 ball with pool balls or to a lesser degree 6 ball using snooker balls,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, AND PLAYING OLD STYLE ROLL OUT RULES. On your first shot if you roll your cash ball to a frozen position on the rail, you turn yourself into the favorite to win the game. This is assuming you are capable of playing a speed above Ned The Primmer.

 

[buck15]

wow

i can't believe the response on this poll/topic. i myself believe that the easier table is the equalizer. a top player is going to make most of his/her shots on either table where a lesser player will jaw up or rattle more shots on a tight table. the friend of mine that i had the debate with believes that the tighter table will put more pressure on the top player when shooting other players money ball. a neutral party said that a top player will figure out wich shots on the money balls are low percentage and start the move game when getting to them for that reason. this is part of the reason that i feel anyone can be beat on a bar table. keep it going though as everyone has brought out some good points both ways.

 

[corvette1340]

tighter pockets, no if's and's or but's about it.

The bottom line is if you're playing a better player getting a money ball spot you're going to want to play on tighter equipment, if you don't know that you do now, and if you don't want to believe it then have a good day

lol, you guys still don't get it. If you ask 100 champions on which table they would like to give a lesser player weight on, I guarantee you that at least 75 will say on a tighter table. (The true number is more likely 90 or so, but I'll go on the low end since I haven't actually asked 100 champions). A looser table makes it easier for lesser players to break on, pocket balls on, and gain confidence on. A tight table makes it harder in all aspects on the lesser player and kills any kind of confidence the player might gain. The champion, however, will still run out on the tighter table and when faced with a tougher shot will outmove the lesser player until they get a more favorable shot. I have been around champion players a lot and this is why they often make good games with lesser players because at least half of the pool population gets this spot theory completely wrong.

 

[branpureza]

lol, you guys still don't get it. If you ask 100 champions on which table they would like to give a lesser player weight on, I guarantee you that at least 75 will say on a tighter table. (The true number is more likely 90 or so, but I'll go on the low end since I haven't actually asked 100 champions). A looser table makes it easier for lesser players to break on, pocket balls on, and gain confidence on. A tight table makes it harder in all aspects on the lesser player and kills any kind of confidence the player might gain. The champion, however, will still run out on the tighter table and when faced with a tougher shot will outmove the lesser player until they get a more favorable shot. I have been around champion players a lot and this is why they often make good games with lesser players because at least half of the pool population gets this spot theory completely wrong.

I know right... this is pretty much pool 101. A tighter table benefits the stronger player and that's all there is to it. Huge pockets somewhat neutralize the better players ability since it makes the weaker player pockets many balls they would normally miss while the stronger player gains virtually nothing out of the deal. I spot a lot of the guys I play with multiple balls and the break... but I only play them on Diamond tables. I would have no chance playing on buckets. They would probably just beat me on the break, and if I survived that, piss would get me.

 

[Southpaw]

Everyone that thinks a tighter table will benefit the lesser playing is solely depending on whether or not the top player will miss more....he will maybe about 10% more, but the lesser player is gonna miss atleast 25% more. And if he does miss a few more on a tighter table, what good does it do you if you cant run 4 or 5 balls consistently....the lesser player CANT WIN! You need to be on equipment that you can run balls on and make balls on the break on and put a different kind of heat on the top player (not just the heat of a tighter table...they WILL adjust their game for that). It amazes me that so many on this forum do not understand this. Spend some time with some top players....then you will learn.

Southpaw

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Everyone that thinks a tighter table will benefit the lesser playing is solely depending on whether or not the top player will miss more....he will maybe about 10% more, but the lesser player is gonna miss atleast 25% more. And if he does miss a few more on a tighter table, what good does it do you if you cant run 4 or 5 balls consistently....the lesser player CANT WIN! You need to be on equipment that you can run balls on and make balls on the break on and put a different kind of heat on the top player (not just the heat of a tighter table...they WILL adjust their game for that). It amazes me that so many on this forum do not understand this. Spend some time with some top players....then you will learn.

Southpaw

I think the underlying problem with this thread is that most people have a different picture in their heads on what is a "top player" versus a player that would receive weight and what that weight would be. I'm an open level player. If I'm in a game with a guy who can give me the 5-ball, I'd want that weight on a tight pocket table because any time he misses, he's going to lose and there's a reasonable chance I will average one turn at the table per game.

If you're a D player playing against a top player, a comparable game would be the 3-out. You think a pro is going to want to give ANYBODY the 3-out on tight equipment? HELL NO! He's going to want the buckets so he can run out every time he gets a chance!

 

[BPG24]

I think the underlying problem with this thread is that most people have a different picture in their heads on what is a "top player" versus a player that would receive weight and what that weight would be. I'm an open level player. If I'm in a game with a guy who can give me the 5-ball, I'd want that weight on a tight pocket table because any time he misses, he's going to lose and there's a reasonable chance I will average one turn at the table per game.

If you're a D player playing against a top player, a comparable game would be the 3-out. You think a pro is going to want to give ANYBODY the 3-out on tight equipment? HELL NO! He's going to want the buckets so he can run out every time he gets a chance!

I agree 100%...

 

[Jimmy M.]

Everyone that thinks a tighter table will benefit the lesser playing is solely depending on whether or not the top player will miss more....he will maybe about 10% more.

And everyone who thinks a looser table benefits the lesser player is mistakingly believing that the lesser player will then be able to play well enough to outrun the better player. In most cases, it doesn't work that way.

 

[Southpaw]

And everyone who thinks a looser table benefits the lesser player is mistakingly believing that the lesser player will then be able to play well enough to outrun the better player. In most cases, it doesn't work that way.

If the person getting the spot cant make balls when the opportunity arises...they cant win. Bottom line. Now which table will they have a better chance to run balls on?

Southpaw

 

[BPG24]

If the person getting the spot cant make balls when the opportunity arises...they cant win. Bottom line. Now which table will they have a better chance to run balls on?

Southpaw

If they can't make balls, then they wouldn't be gambling...

 

[Southpaw]

If they can't make balls, then they wouldn't be gambling...

Thats why they are getting a huge spot genius....thats the whole point of the thread.


Southpaw

 

[BPG24]

Thats why they are getting a huge spot genius....thats the whole point of the thread.


Southpaw

You are missing the point obviously...

No one is going to gamble if they can't make balls... Surely you are smart enough to realize that 2 free spot balls isn't that big of a spot whe a top player is giving it... there won't be as much of a difference in ball pocketing skills as you think...

A top pro is 2 balls better than a shortstop... Do you think a shortstop can't get out???

 

[Jimmy M.]

lol, you guys still don't get it. If you ask 100 champions on which table they would like to give a lesser player weight on, I guarantee you that at least 75 will say on a tighter table. (The true number is more likely 90 or so, but I'll go on the low end since I haven't actually asked 100 champions).

I'll bet against that number if anyone can come up with a way to get it (and a way that is verifiable).

No one wants to give up a bunch of money balls, champion or otherwise, and then have to fire at tiny pockets. I don't think anyone wants to play on buckets, but just something not so tight that making balls becomes a chore.

Anyway, the main audience in this forum, the one that was asked the original question, "which table would you want to play on getting a spot from a top player", needs A LOT of weight. So, if anyone ever does pose this question to any champions, let them know that they are giving up a bunch of weight; probably multiple money balls.

If the game is kind of close, like an Efren playing <insert pro here who might only need a little weight> then, yeah, tighter pockets might be better for Efren. However, I don't think the people here, at least not most of them, are only getting "a little" weight from the "top pro" that they will be playing.

I kind of feel like an idiot for posting in here now that I realize what is happening. The OP started this thread, asking for OPINIONS, just to argue with everyone who offers one that doesn't match his. I've been had, I guess.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Thats why they are getting a huge spot genius....thats the whole point of the thread.


Southpaw

You know what's funny is, I have Jimmy M pegged as one of the better players on azb and he agrees the buckets favor the better player.