Tougher tables did not help USA pros for 20 years

[King T]

China do pretty well using 'tough' equipment. I imagine if they travelled more, they would compete easily with filipinos for the cream of the crop. Anyone playing American pool here wants a 4" corner, sometimes less. Don't really need to comment on Chinese tables here, we all know they are tough as hell.

Well the Chinese players dont play good because of tight pockets, they play good because they work ay every aspect of the game. Theres not one thing they dont do well including compete.

 

[lfigueroa]

I wasn't very familiar with Poteet but he played great. I watched him play other matches after playing Dave. Who ended up winning the tournament?

Think Gomez and Rivas split at 430am.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Straightpool_99]

One thing is for certain. It's not the tables that have weakened U.S. pool! It's the mindset of the current crop of American players. For them good enough is okay. You want to be a champion at any sport, you must do the work and put in the time required. They must be highly motivated and dedicated to the sport, with a desire to continually improve their game, whatever that takes. I don't see that here today. I do see it when I'm in the Philippines where they live, eat and breathe pool every hour of every day.

I like to see players practice on tough tables. But doing that once a week ain't gonna cut it. The very best players are working at their games on a daily basis until they reach a sustained level of excellence. In the last twenty years we've had only one player willing to do that.

I don't really care for UFC, but Khabib tells the truth here. If you want to be the best in the world, talent and hard work isn't enough. There are lots of people with talent who works hard. You have to give it everything you've got, do the things other people can't or won't do. You have to play the best as often as possible and figure out a way to beat them. All other things must come second. Every time you slack off in practise, there is a guy out there who doesn't, and it adds up. Somewhere a kid is breaking 10 ball racks over, and over and over...He has nothing else, all his mental and physical energy goes into this one pursuit. He'll be the best and the slacker will be a nobody.

 

[fjk]

One thing is for certain. It's not the tables that have weakened U.S. pool! It's the mindset of the current crop of American players. For them good enough is okay. You want to be a champion at any sport, you must do the work and put in the time required. They must be highly motivated and dedicated to the sport, with a desire to continually improve their game, whatever that takes. I don't see that here today. I do see it when I'm in the Philippines where they live, eat and breathe pool every hour of every day.

I like to see players practice on tough tables. But doing that once a week ain't gonna cut it. The very best players are working at their games on a daily basis until they reach a sustained level of excellence. In the last twenty years we've had only one player willing to do that.

At my last job, one of my colleagues was from the Philippines. Of course, I had to ask him if he played pool. While he didn't play, he said his parents were good friends with Efren. I asked him what he believed was the reason why there's a disproportionate number of great pool players from the Philippines. He equated it to two reasons:

1. They have a gambling culture. He said they love to gamble and they gamble on everything. He said even little kids bring change with them when they go to the park so they could gamble on whatever they played.
2. He said they are mostly very poor, so when they do gamble, they play their guts outs because they have next to no money. I guess this goes along with your point. Being hungry and broke would make you motivated to practice and win.

I think we've become fat and lazy.

 

[skor]

Not on board with this line of reasoning. In 2005, most of the top players in pro pool were still American. Entering the 21st century, only a handful of Europeans were full-time players of American pool. Among them were Ortmann, Souquet, Feijen, Lely, Chamat, and Immonen, and nearly none of the others traveled to America to compete. In all the major pool events, the fields before 2000 featured very few Europeans.

The watershed moment came in 2000 when Matchroom, which produced only the Mosconi Cup and the World Pool Masters at the time, made its first ever move into large-scale tournament pool, producing the World 9ball in Cardiff for 2000-2003. Although the Euro-tour had existed since 1992, for many Europeans, and I have spoken with some of them over the years, this is when American pool came into full view among European cueists. In 2004, the World 9ball moved to Asia, but Europe's interest in American pool had been piqued, and from 2005-15, the number of Europeans playing American pool skyrocketed. From 2015-25, the game became increasingly global, and there are now great players in every corner of the globe.

Americans dominated at American pool prior to 2005, to some extent, because they were the ones playing it. While there is no denying that pocket size figures in the equation, attributing America's fall from grace to the tightening of the pockets is missing the boat. Everyone plays 9ball now, and the American domination seen prior to 2005 may never be seen again.

everybody plays basketball but the NBA is still the strongest league and where every player on the planet wants to play.
It all comes down to one thing, for Americans pool is not a sport. And America will stay behind as long as it doesn't change.
And you may not agree with me, but it's the BCA job to make changes. It was the EPBF and the local federations that did the changes in Europe.

 

[sjm]

everybody plays basketball but the NBA is still the strongest league and where every player on the planet wants to play.
It all comes down to one thing, for Americans pool is not a sport. And America will stay behind as long as it doesn't change.

Perhaps so.

And you may not agree with me, but it's the BCA job to make changes. It was the EPBF and the local federations that did the changes in Europe.

There is not much similarity between EPBF, which oversees the Euro-tour and most professional pool activity in Europe and the BCA, which is, for the most part, a small and marginally funded trade organization. Like you, I would like to see the BCA play a different role, but I think the conception of a legitimate pool tour in America, which can happen with or without BCA involvement, is more important than the redefinition of the role of the BCA.

 

[skor]

Perhaps so.

There is not much similarity between EPBF, which oversees the Euro-tour and most professional pool activity in Europe and the BCA, which is, for the most part, a small and marginally funded trade organization. Like you, I would like to see the BCA play a different role, but I think the conception of a legitimate pool tour in America, which can happen with or without BCA involvement, is more important than the redefinition of the role of the BCA.

The EPBF is much more than a tour organizer.
They govern pool from all aspects.
Referee programs, coaches programs, European championships, Eurotour, working with countries federations. It does what it needs to do for their position in the pool hierarchy, sitting between the WPA and European federations.

Do you have state federations under the BCA?
If not, maybe this is part of the problem, the USA is too big for the BCA to do it all. Just like the EPBF doesn’t do everything alone.

The whole European operation is working like any sports operation.

There are claims here about no rooms with 9ft tables.
How about the BCA work to make rooms into sports center, no booz no greasy food no gambling , just pool tables and have certified instructors run programs for all ages. Make it safe for the parents to drop their kids there for a few hours. and get the owners discount in taxes etc. just like any other sports facility might enjoy.

 

[sjm]

The EPBF is much more than a tour organizer.
They govern pool from all aspects.
Referee programs, coaches programs, European championships, Eurotour, working with countries federations. It does what it needs to do for their position in the pool hierarchy, sitting between the WPA and European federations.

Do you have state federations under the BCA?
If not, maybe this is part of the problem, the USA is too big for the BCA to do it all. Just like the EPBF doesn’t do everything alone.

The whole European operation is working like any sports operation.

There are claims here about no rooms with 9ft tables.
How about the BCA work to make rooms into sports center, no booz no greasy food no gambling , just pool tables and have certified instructors run programs for all ages. Make it safe for the parents to drop their kids there for a few hours. and get the owners discount in taxes etc. just like any other sports facility might enjoy.

Again, you are assigning a role to the BCA that it is not designed or organized to play. You are, of course, right in suggesting that it is important that somebody play these roles.

I agree that the culture of the American poolroom is, too often, a deterrent to the integration of youthful cueists into the game, and I have posted this many times over the years.

I live in New York, and I have never seen a poolroom that did not have nine-foot tables. I'm sure the problem you mention exists elsewhere, but I cannot comment on it.

 

[overlord]

I think the silent killer is inflation.

Young people in towns like LA have seen an unreal escalation in rents, if they aren't living with their parents.

The demographic of the players seems to get older and older.

Very few kids coming up are serious about pool as a hobby.

Labour costs have gone way up.

What kid will be able to afford 15 dollar an hour practice time after work?

The day to day action that made pool exciting is largely gone in a lot of rooms.

Regular folks have less discretionary income to spend these days.

Then there is the fact that allowing younger patrons in means, more insurance costs........

A pint of beer in many rooms is not cheap these days.

The management in many rooms is pretty shabby.

A lot of the employees have attitude even when you tip them.

It ain't like going to Chick Filet or In and Out Burger where all the employees are happy and helpful..........

After Covid everybody is expecting fat tips for nothing........