Tougher tables did not help USA pros for 20 years

Speaking of,

Does anyone think they should have separate Fargorates for 7ft vs 9ft tables?
Yes, I would welcome the complete omission of results on a 7-footer from Fargo calculations.

It is certainly OK to have a separate ranking table for bar-box Fargo rates, as long as I don't have to look at them.

The game played on a barbox is a different game.
 
The best BarBox players are also th best big table players, there no difference when it comes to players in this country. They just can't keep up with the rest of the world.
Actually, no. At Derby City, over the years, I have watched a couple of top-five-ranked players in the world try their luck vs barbox specialists like Skyler and Corey and they have not fared well.
 
Yes, I would welcome the complete omission of results on a 7-footer from Fargo calculations.

It is certainly OK to have a separate ranking table for bar-box Fargo rates, as long as I don't have to look at them.

The game played on a barbox is a different game.

i fully agree, but it's a commercial product with subscribers and league fees, so that's probably not gonna happen
 
but svb also practiced / practices alone, and a lot. he's a lonewolf outlier in my opinion, most people can't do what he does and get those results. is/was there even one other 700+ player in south dakota?
Was he practicing to win just US Opens or was he also practicing to go on the road and win a ton of $ gambling? When's the last time you heard of 2 US Fargo 770's matching up for 5k or more aside from Fedor vs Shane? The tourney competition would be much much tougher but there's virtually zero matchups for the top 10 - 20 US players against each other. Oscar is always looking for action but he's playing Morra or some hispanics more than American players. The action isn't there and the depth of US pool players is non existent minus Shaw/Fedor and a lot of other non US born players that live here now.
 
Was he practicing to win just US Opens or was he also practicing to go on the road and win a ton of $ gambling? When's the last time you heard of 2 US Fargo 770's matching up for 5k or more aside from Fedor vs Shane? The tourney competition would be much much tougher but there's virtually zero matchups for the top 10 - 20 US players against each other. Oscar is always looking for action but he's playing Morra or some hispanics more than American players. The action isn't there and the depth of US pool players is non existent minus Shaw/Fedor and a lot of other non US born players that live here now.

sure, but money matches didn't make shane what he is, or fedor for that matter. shane is one of the biggest practice demons in the history of the game. for most pros it's not like that, they need mentors and sparring partners
 
With so much analysis over the USA team I wonder if the Mosconi Cup was a winner take all might inspire them to play harder and focus a bit more.

Perhaps they could have money for travel, food and lodging but the purse would be a winner take all

Little mistakes add up in short races, like the lag for instance. This has always bugged me, as it relates to the USA team. Lose that and you can be done 1 game very quickly. That's 20% of a match gone before you even stroke the cue..

I'd really like the USA to be more competitive on day 1 as well..

At this point I have lost interest in watching it live, it is becoming a sad reality, one Mr. Mosconi would not like one bit.

Maybe next year......
 
what is bad is that when you watch lags some of them are way to hard or soft. and the first break is very important.

and if early in the set you cant control your cueball well enough to be very close to the rail how do you expect to play great position.
 
Did anybody ever think about getting our all time greats together and having them put together a curriculum for younger players that want to learn and become outstanding players? Or trying to help with our cream of the crop nowadays that seem to lose the Mosconi Cup almost every year? All time greats like:

Nick Varner
Jim Rempe
Earl Strickland
Johnny Archer
Mike Sigel

Nowadays we have the PBIA and within that we have the SPF group of instructors. And as I've said before - and this was agreed with by two of the greatest players of all time - rolling balls down the table isn't going to help much.

r/DCP
 
sure, but money matches didn't make shane what he is, or fedor for that matter. shane is one of the biggest practice demons in the history of the game. for most pros it's not like that, they need mentors and sparring partners
He was on the road gambling before he had tourney success, one year he literally didn't play in any of the DCC events and just gambled because he knew he'd make more money gambling than if he even won every event. Yes he practiced insanely but GAMBLING or winning/reaching the quarters/semis/finals of bigger/major events are the best forms of practice. These kids that can play in UP like Savannah and enter 4 - 5 events not only will they be cashing in but from a practice/polishing your game perspective you can't beat it short of regularly being in high stakes action.
 
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I see Danny Olson but he's only 32. Shane's got him by a decade.
This is an excellent point but Shane was chasing after Jesse Bowman and there were some other top notch players in that general area that don't really exist now like a Larry Nevel, Chicago is nonexistent for 760+ Fargo players even if it's loaded w banks/1P specialists what happened to the rotation players? Even crazier if SVB never existed what would upper midwest pool look like today? You literally wouldn't even have a Tyler Styer who copies a lot of what SVB does, w out Tyler you wouldn't even have a Sam Henderson. A Fargo age breakdown by state/region would show just how pathetic the depth is of US pool and it's only gonna get worse.
 
Yes, I would welcome the complete omission of results on a 7-footer from Fargo calculations.

It is certainly OK to have a separate ranking table for bar-box Fargo rates, as long as I don't have to look at them.

The game played on a barbox is a different game.
And we know tournaments are the only thing that matter to you - a guy could beat everybody in the world gambling and you still wouldn't respect them because they don't play tournaments. I think they both matter
 
Was he practicing to win just US Opens or was he also practicing to go on the road and win a ton of $ gambling? When's the last time you heard of 2 US Fargo 770's matching up for 5k or more aside from Fedor vs Shane? The tourney competition would be much much tougher but there's virtually zero matchups for the top 10 - 20 US players against each other. Oscar is always looking for action but he's playing Morra or some hispanics more than American players. The action isn't there and the depth of US pool players is non existent minus Shaw/Fedor and a lot of other non US born players that live here now.
Shane played everybody that had $$$
 
sure, but money matches didn't make shane what he is, or fedor for that matter. shane is one of the biggest practice demons in the history of the game. for most pros it's not like that, they need mentors and sparring partners
the money matches gets you over the hump. mentors and people to play with only can get you to a good speed.

no pressure no improvement.

virtually all great all around players gambled their way to greatness. its just the way it is.
 
... I see Danny Olson but he's only 32. Shane's got him by a decade.
Danny Olson has surprised me; I expected him by now to have more titles and high finishes. He is capable of beating anyone at times. About 5 years ago he clobbered Chris Robinson (100-65) in a 10-Ball match, about a month after Chris played in the Mosconi Cup. I'm even surprised that Danny's FargoRate isn't higher (757). He'll be 33 in a few weeks, but I think he still has the stuff to make it to the Mosconi Cup at some point.
 
the money matches gets you over the hump. mentors and people to play with only can get you to a good speed.

no pressure no improvement.

virtually all great all around players gambled their way to greatness. its just the way it is.

i wasn't arguing against gambling. the johnson guy missed my point by a mile. but since you bring up your usual nostalgic dream world that doesn't really exist anymore, i can engage. these are the last 15 world 9-ball champions:

Wu Jiaqing
Ronnie Alcano
Daryl Peach
Francisco Bustamante
Yukio Akakariyama
Darren Appleton
Thorsten Hohmann
Niels Feijen
Ko Pin-yi
Albin Ouschan
Carlo Biado
Joshua Filler
Fedor Gorst
Shane Van Boening
Francisco Sánchez Ruiz

for how many of those does that fantasy hold true? virtually all?
 
i dont follow all the names but the ones i know of on your list all gambled and got great.

would they have if they just practiced with worse players and played in tournaments that they had a picnic winning.

maybe so. maybe not.

my old nostalgia is a great thing with great times and profitable, and enabled me to go far.

and the old time pool rooms were a social event it wasnt just about pool playing.
 
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And we know tournaments are the only thing that matter to you - a guy could beat everybody in the world gambling and you still wouldn't respect them because they don't play tournaments. I think they both matter
Wonder who you mean? Who today gambles only and doesn't compete but manages to beat the premier players in action? I can't even think of one such player. Tournament players make money now. The Top 19 per the 2025 AZB money list all made $100,000+ in prize money this year.

Anyone who consistently beats the greatest champions, in action or tournament play, has my respect. Nonetheless, you are correct in saying that I am far more interested in who wins tournaments. When you gamble, you can choose your opponent, but when you compete, you cannot. Winning at the major championships requires beating champion after champion, all having different skillsets and styles, in succession, and that is why so few manage to pull it off more than a couple of times in a career.

The major championships put all the greatest players in one place at one time. The last man standing is the best. That's the true test of a champion, and it is a much stiffer test than beating one pre-selected opponent whom you could have ducked if you wanted.
 
i dont follow all the names but the ones i know of on your list all gambled and got great.

would they have if they just practiced with worse players and played in tournaments that they had a picnic winning.

maybe so. maybe not.

my old nostalgia is a great thing with great times and profitable, and enabled me to go far.

lol what kind of cherry picked argument is that. which one of them do you know of? can only be 4 for your previous statement to hold true.
 
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