Toughest race in APA 8Ball?

Last week I played a 2, so it was a 4-2 race. I just couldn't seem to bear down against her or take it seriously. Every time up to the table everything was different. I played so badly it bothered me the next day.

I would much rather play a higher handicap. I cannot be complacent,and have to bring my best play. If I make a mistake there won't be a second chance at the table.

I am a competent 4


:cool:
 
The 7/4 race is really tough. When you break it down there isn't much of a step up between a 4 and a 5. You have a player who is capable of playing like a five but not as consistent. 7/3 is really tough if you have a smart 3. They can be a real nightmare. My gf is a 3. She pockets balls like a 2 but I have taught her to play really smart. When she plays higher players they are usually in for a long night.
 
Not trying to hijack but the 8 ball is a piece of cake compared to the 9ball which is why I quit playing.

With no pushout after the break in nineball, playing a 2 or whatever is nearly impossible.

JMO

I played as a 3 and 4 in 8 ball, and LOVED playing 7. Most I would normally gamble with very little spot, but in APA, I got this monster spot.

Ken
 
Gregg said:
SL7 could mean you are an overachieving SL6, or a top flight backstop. I used to shoot on a team with two SLs who would alternate play every other week. They hardly ever lost to anybody, ever. Both have high runs of 69 and over eighty balls in straight pool, if that's a guage.

In contrast, a really good SL4 should be a good shot maker, but really just learning to control the cue ball. Sure they might get lucky, but a decent SL7, IMO, should clearly outclass an SL4.
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I'm not sure of the technical definition of "top flight backstop", but I'm sure that's not me. I do feel it's definitely correct that I'm a 7 and not a 6, but I'm no world-beater among APA players.

-Andrew
 
Gregg said:
SL7 could mean you are an overachieving SL6, or a top flight backstop. I used to shoot on a team with two SLs who would alternate play every other week. They hardly ever lost to anybody, ever. Both have high runs of 69 and over eighty balls in straight pool, if that's a guage.

In contrast, a really good SL4 should be a good shot maker, but really just learning to control the cue ball. Sure they might get lucky, but a decent SL7, IMO, should clearly outclass an SL4.
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I agree Gregg, a 7 SHOULD beat a 4 75%+ of the time (even with the tough 5-2 spot), but if you are a 4 and have the two 7s that you spoke about on your team; my guess is you are a much tougher 4 than on most other teams (if you ask for their help and they are willing to work with you). I was lucky enough to have GREAT (very helpful) teammates. They saw exactly where I needed to improve, and that's what we worked on....while on other teams, a 4 might shoot decent enough, and his teammates don't work on their games, but instead worry more about who's picking up this round of pitchers....
 
Gregg said:
SL7 could mean you are an overachieving SL6, or a top flight backstop. I used to shoot on a team with two SLs who would alternate play every other week. They hardly ever lost to anybody, ever. Both have high runs of 69 and over eighty balls in straight pool, if that's a guage.

In contrast, a really good SL4 should be a good shot maker, but really just learning to control the cue ball. Sure they might get lucky, but a decent SL7, IMO, should clearly outclass an SL4.
Click to expand...
Well, it sounds like your 7s were probably the equivalent of 8s or 9s, which of course don't exist, so a 5-2 race probably wasn't too tough for them. I don't run many racks and can't run more than 20 in straight pool, so I find a 5-2 race tough, depending on the player.

I was a 5 for a couple sessions but don't recall ever struggling against a 3. But, handicaps are of course relative to the skill level of a particular league.
 
axejunkie said:
Well, it sounds like your 7s were probably the equivalent of 8s or 9s, which of course don't exist, so a 5-2 race probably wasn't too tough for them. I don't run many racks and can't run more than 20 in straight pool, so I find a 5-2 race tough, depending on the player.

I was a 5 for a couple sessions but don't recall ever struggling against a 3. But, handicaps are of course relative to the skill level of a particular league.
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ill back gregg up on this one since im from the area. there arent many 7's in my division but the ones who are usually beat any lower sl easily. with that said i dont ever recall seeing a 4 beat a 7. on the other hand i see 7's and higher go down often against 4's and lower in 9 ball.
 
9-ball

Ant812 said:
ill back gregg up on this one since im from the area. there arent many 7's in my division but the ones who are usually beat any lower sl easily. with that said i dont ever recall seeing a 4 beat a 7. on the other hand i see 7's and higher go down often against 4's and lower in 9 ball.
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I am an 8 and I usually play the highest SL on the other team. But if they start lowballing our team then I do them the same way.
My favorite is to put our strongest 3 on the 9. When the race is 19-75 and I get 2 time outs per rack to help with safeties and shot selection it can work.
 
Andrew Manning said:
I'm not sure of the technical definition of "top flight backstop", but I'm sure that's not me. I do feel it's definitely correct that I'm a 7 and not a 6, but I'm no world-beater among APA players.

-Andrew
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Oh, gosh darn. I'm sorry I EVER made used that term. There were pages of posts on a thread here on the AZ about that very term, backstop.

Lets just say it's considered, to a wide degree, a step below professional. Way beyond the skill I will ever be at.

Please sweep under the carpet the post I made using that term before I am chased by an angry mob with torches and pitchforks.
 
trustyrusty said:
I agree Gregg, a 7 SHOULD beat a 4 75%+ of the time (even with the tough 5-2 spot), but if you are a 4 and have the two 7s that you spoke about on your team; my guess is you are a much tougher 4 than on most other teams (if you ask for their help and they are willing to work with you). I was lucky enough to have GREAT (very helpful) teammates. They saw exactly where I needed to improve, and that's what we worked on....while on other teams, a 4 might shoot decent enough, and his teammates don't work on their games, but instead worry more about who's picking up this round of pitchers....
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I've been a SL5 for a while, and have been playing sporty as of late.

I started in the APA as a weak SL2, and really took an intrest from watching the better shooters on our team, both SL7s, play. They really enjoyed learning and teaching the game. They made it "cool" to want to play well. In some cases, they could become easily frustrated, as they really were not in a league that challenged them I guess they saw too many easy run outs blown, missed shots, bad pattern play, etc.

But yeah, one shooter I no longer play with on league nights is still my billiard mentor, and we travel to the 14.1 worlds and SBE when they come around every year.
 
Andrew Manning said:
Sounds like pretty much everybody agrees as to what the hardest race is.

As a twist, which race do you think is the easiest for the better player to win? As a 7, I think I have my best chance to win against 5's. I find that 5's can be counted on, in my division at least, to make enough balls to open the table up pretty well before making a mistake and giving me control. As long as I don't get all my balls out of their way and dog the 8, I find I generally get an awful lot of easy (wide open) 5 ball outs, or when there is trouble, at least there's not a lot of clutter to complicate the rack too much. After I've punished one or two of their misses by running out, they get even more likely to dog balls at inopportune times and leave me further golden opportunities, because they get a little tight and a little nervous about missing. Since they need 3 racks, I have nothing to be too scared of, and I come out and shoot confidently, and I take down the match almost all the time.

-Andrew
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The 5-3 spot vs. 5s seems harder than the 5-4 spot vs. 6s. If I get into stroke, legitimate 5s and 6s are very unlikely to beat me. So playing a 6 gives me one more chance to catch stroke, which can be a big deal when I come from work, coach/spectate for a few hours, and then shoot cold.

Mathematically, the percentage gap between the spot a 5 gets relative to a 6 (i.e., 66% vs. 25% spot) seems a lot larger than the actual skill gap between a 6 and a 5. QED.

Cory
 
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Gregg said:
Oh, gosh darn. I'm sorry I EVER made used that term. There were pages of posts on a thread here on the AZ about that very term, backstop.

Lets just say it's considered, to a wide degree, a step below professional. Way beyond the skill I will ever be at.

Please sweep under the carpet the post I made using that term before I am chased by an angry mob with torches and pitchforks.
Click to expand...
Im not sure but I think a BACKSTOP is somthing used in basball to stop the ball when it gets past the catcher, and the term SHORTSTOP is used to describe a very good pool player.....

As far as the OP the 7 vs 4 is a tuff race...The rating system is a decimal system so you can be a 6.5 (and have to play as a 7) and play a 4.4. The only time you shouldbe able to only win 2 games is 1, if you are a 2 or when two 3's are playing. The 7 should have to win 1 more game, not the 4 win 1 less, thats just stupid. So because the 7 is a better, that makes the 4 worse...no
 
Mowem down said:
Im not sure but I think a BACKSTOP is somthing used in basball to stop the ball when it gets past the catcher, and the term SHORTSTOP is used to describe a very good pool player.....

As far as the OP the 7 vs 4 is a tuff race...The rating system is a decimal system so you can be a 6.5 (and have to play as a 7) and play a 4.4. The only time you shouldbe able to only win 2 games is 1, if you are a 2 or when two 3's are playing. The 7 should have to win 1 more game, not the 4 win 1 less, thats just stupid. So because the 7 is a better, that makes the 4 worse...no
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Even with all the *****in' about the 4-2 spot as the toughest, I suspect most 7s have winning records against 4s. So, yes, when you lose it sucks that they only had to go to 2. But I don't think that tilts the scales enough to make the 4 a favorite.
 
The 7-4 matchup is tough. Usually by the time a player is a 4, they've got a decent enough break to luck in an 8 on the snap now and then, or run out the open table when a 7 dogs the game ball. And, if a 4 gets a game early, the 7 can actually lose the match on their break by making the 8 and scratching.

That said, if the handicaps are legit, the toughest match for a 7 should be another 7. A straight up race with a person who with a little luck on the breaks is capable of running out the match from the lag is a tough race. If you never shoot, it's hard to win.

In my opinion, the toughest APA 8-ball race to win is the 2 playing against a 7. It should take luck, and a lot of it, for a 2 to beat a 7.

APA 9-ball is another story altogether, because as my buddy says "it's just makin' balls." Say the high SL scratches on the 9 or hangs it in the pocket. By the time the 2 makes the 9 ball, makes a ball or two on the ensuing break, and maybe even makes the 1 when it hangs over the side pocket, they've got 1/4th of their goal, without even having to use a coach. I love low-balling hot shot 7s and up with my 1s, 2s and 3s. That's a tough race.
 
spoons said:
The 7-4 matchup is tough. Usually by the time a player is a 4, they've got a decent enough break to luck in an 8 on the snap now and then, or run out the open table when a 7 dogs the game ball. And, if a 4 gets a game early, the 7 can actually lose the match on their break by making the 8 and scratching.

That said, if the handicaps are legit, the toughest match for a 7 should be another 7. A straight up race with a person who with a little luck on the breaks is capable of running out the match from the lag is a tough race. If you never shoot, it's hard to win.
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It depends. There are 7's in my division (at least one I can think of) who I should always beat. If we played 20 matches, I feel I could reasonably expect to win 17. There are other 7's that I'm about even with, but I believe I'm the better player overall. And then there's one 7 in my division who I've never beaten, and the best I've ever done is losing 2-5. I would like to think I could beat him if we played enough, and I definitely feel my game is still improving whereas I'm not sure his is. But I'm a big underdog to beat him any given Thursday.

So for the majority of 7's, I feel confident going into the match. Whereas for any 4 I know of, I'm worried going into it. I'm scared of making a costly mistake early and then being forced to play mistake-free pool to win. So even though I know I'm the favorite to win against any true 4, the race seems tougher to me.

-Andrew
 
I agree

I think 7-4 or 7-5 depending on the true speed of the lower handicapped players. The problem with 7's is that they don't run out every time. You leave an open table to a solid 5, and they will run out from your miss almost every time. 5-2 race against a solid 4 is the same thing. The only reason I mention a 5 is that they are supposed to be able to run a rack out from thier break now and again. It just puts tons of pressure on the 7 not to miss late in his run, or at least play safe early enough in the rack that there is alot of road trouble for the incoming player.
 
I feel your pain!!! I am a 7 and played a 4 two weeks ago and let me just tell you.

I swear some of these guys play the sand bag to a tee! He didn't run any racks on me but it went to the hill and I choked on a long shot before the 8 ball and he ran 5 balls and out!

I have been playing pool for over 20 years and I can tell usually how strong a shooter is within the first couple of shots. This guy should have been at least bare minimun a 6 in anyones book!

Food for thought. Don't under estimate any of these 4's or 5's...LOL

P.S. The funny thing is that 2 weeks in a row the 7's on both teams
avoided playing me.....unbelievable...scared I guess..:smile: :smile:
 
steveL75121 said:
I feel your pain!!! I am a 7 and played a 4 two weeks ago and let me just tell you.

I swear some of these guys play the sand bag to a tee! He didn't run any racks on me but it went to the hill and I choked on a long shot before the 8 ball and he ran 5 balls and out!

I have been playing pool for over 20 years and I can tell usually how strong a shooter is within the first couple of shots. This guy should have been at least bare minimun a 6 in anyones book!

Food for thought. Don't under estimate any of these 4's or 5's...LOL

P.S. The funny thing is that 2 weeks in a row the 7's on both teams
avoided playing me.....unbelievable...scared I guess..:smile: :smile:
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Doubt it was fear, odds are the opposing team had a hot 4 or 5 to play you (assuming you are the strongest player on the team). For example, when I played 8ball on Sundays, we had a 5 who had on Monday (his 9ball night) put together his first ever 3 pack + on a guy (my teammate was a 6 in 9ball), then played nearly flawless on his Thurs. 8ball team beating another REALLY good 5 (4-0), and on Sat. placed 2nd in a local 8ball tourney (filled with players from VNEA, BCA, APA etc..all leagues that were or would be ranked as 7s)...Why wouldn't you put him against the opposing teams best player?? Guys that are on the brink of moving up are pretty scary at times....especially giving them a couple to 3 games spot.
 
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