Tournament handicaps

kaznj

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
tournaments with a-d players no handicaps. Short race. 8 ball race to 2. 9 ball race to 4. What do think? Would you enter?
 

cubswin

Just call me Joe...
Silver Member
So you are saying no handicap, open tournament for most part?

Yes I'd enter if it wasn't stupid expensive. Play in one now that has two guys who fargo rate is right around 700. 9 ball race to 3 loser break.

Now the downside those two guys are almost always 1 and 2 and only pay 3 places. Bright side the calcutta money gets stupid.

Downside is I have gotten 4th last 3 times I played it.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
tournaments with a-d players no handicaps. Short race. 8 ball race to 2. 9 ball race to 4. What do think? Would you enter?
Good luck with keeping the field up. C and D ranked players will soon realize they are just donating $ to the A and maybe occasionally the B ranked players, who will dominate the top spots week after week.
 

David in FL

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Good luck with keeping the field up. C and D ranked players will soon realize they are just donating $ to the A and maybe occasionally the B ranked players, who will dominate the top spots week after week.

Yep.

I’m a 500, C level banger... I play in a couple of bigger open tournaments every year because I enjoy the experience, but know that I’m pretty much dead money. I’ll do it in bigger, longer race tournaments because even if I’m 2 and out, I’m likely to play 20 games or so. Short races? Probably not.
 

cubswin

Just call me Joe...
Silver Member
Good luck with keeping the field up. C and D ranked players will soon realize they are just donating $ to the A and maybe occasionally the B ranked players, who will dominate the top spots week after week.

Just depends on the area and entry fee in my opinion. Tournament I mentioned will get 20-30 and has been running for years. Calcutta money is what brings the b-d's, since it is often over 1k for first on a under 20 dollar entry tournament.

Make it a 30+ dollar entry and lower level players start thinking there is no reason to donate, at least most of the ones I know feel that way (myself included). At least for a weekly tournament. Personally I think short race tournaments have to be fairly cheap to get players.

Your mileage may vary of course.
 
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Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There's a bar box tourney up here. Wednesdays and Fridays. Races to 2. 8 ball winners side, rack your own. 8 on the break pot in a designated pocket drawn each tourney. Loses side, 9 ball, rack for your opponent. He gets 32 to 40 each tourney.
Entry is based on your rating. It's an APA place so depending on your rating, entry is 10 and 20.
No membership fees, no bullshit. Just pool. And a lot of fun. The room owner adds 150 and takes nothing. Majes it back on the bar and kitchen.
Full bar and kitchen reasonably priced. The bar has 4.....7 ft diamonds.
Short races on 7ft tables. -A- players are not stealing.
 
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Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is also another tourney on Wednesdays. In a real pool room.
Not my favorite rules. Kind of like kindergarten rules for little kids. It is what it is. Some Tourney directors need a little power kick I guess. No talking while match is in play, except for between racks. During the rack play, if you talk, move, scratch your ass. TD will give your opponent ball in hand.
9 balll, race to 3. Alternate break. I think race to 2 on the loss side. Usually 2 loud to hear your cue strike the ball.
But the better players are usually the favorite here. 9 ft tables, $30 entry fee, preregister.
The 30 each is broken down as follows.
3 to the room. 3 to the TD. 1 towards break and run pot and 1 for on line reporting.
So, for you Fargo boys, you can 2 step weeek after week. Get your numbers dropped then play a big tourney on a weekend. AND GET PAID. YAYYYYYY!
It is what it is.
 
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Buckzapper

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't enter ball-banger tournaments. A race to 2? How about a trophy for the player that can twirl his cue like an airplane propeller the fastest?
Lets see...race to 2. Looks like I better bring 2 break sticks and 2 jump cues, 2 gloves and my own rack.
Hey, can we get the 3 foul rule to not apply in this format? Mind if I video the match for Youtube?
In a 16 player field, will you pay the top 12 places?
 

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't enter ball-banger tournaments. A race to 2? How about a trophy for the player that can twirl his cue like an airplane propeller the fastest?
Lets see...race to 2. Looks like I better bring 2 break sticks and 2 jump cues, 2 gloves and my own rack.
Hey, can we get the 3 foul rule to not apply in this format? Mind if I video the match for Youtube?
In a 16 player field, will you pay the top 12 places?


Hahahahaha
 

Island Drive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One things for sure about these types of events is this.
The rules/formats/payouts are created by Whiners and the regulars, they have nothing to due with real play/fair play
They usually are groomed/massaged by cocktail moments and big EGOS.
I do like B.Z. perspective allot. :)
 
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Black-Balled

He Rides the Skies
Silver Member
One things for sure about these types of events is this.
The rules/formats/payouts are created by Whiners and the regulars, they have nothing to due with real play/fair play.
They usually are groomed/massaged by cocktail moments and big EGOS.

Op said there is a wide range of players that play, I don't think anyone would consider the lower end "real" players. Rule sets are a joke often, I'll agree.

I had no job for years when there were these smaller events around dc and traffic was not stupid.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
tournaments with a-d players no handicaps. Short race. 8 ball race to 2. 9 ball race to 4. What do think? Would you enter?

I play in some similar tournaments, open, no handicap and shorter races like 3 or 2. Same ones Mr Webb was talking about.

If I will play in more of them depends on how the payouts go, many only pay out the top few places very top heavy, so really there are like 4-5-6 players just about guaranteed to cash every time with the rest just there for drinks and socializing. I'd be interested in short race events if the payouts where matches to the number of entries better. 32 players, 1st place is $300 2nd place is $100 3rd place is $40, nothing for anyone else is a silly thing. Most of time the top 2 spit due to how uneven the payouts are.

If the payouts match the standard of top 1/4 of field is paid, I would play in something like that with short races every week. Anything else I'd go if I'm bored or want to socialize with friends not play real pool. Race to 2, guy breaks and runs out, you break dry, guy runs out, see ya. Not very useful if you don't expect to get far or get paid even if you do all the time, waste of time driving and paying money for entry fee and possible food/drinks at the place.
 
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Island Drive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I play in some similar tournaments, open, no handicap and shorter races like 3 or 2. Same ones Mr Webb was talking about.

If I will play in more of them depends on how the payouts go, many only pay out the top few places very top heavy, so really there are like 4-5-6 players just about guaranteed to cash every time with the rest just there for drinks and socializing. I'd be interested in short race events if the payouts where matches to the number of entries better. 32 players, 1st place is $300 2nd place is $100 3rd place is $40, nothing for anyone else is a silly thing. Most of time the top 2 spit due to how uneven the payouts are.

If the payouts match the standard of top 1/4 of field is paid, I would play in something like that with short races every week. Anything else I'd go if I'm bored or want to socialize with friends not play real pool. Race to 2, guy breaks and runs out, you break dry, guy runs out, see ya. Not very useful if you don't expect to get far or get paid even if you do all the time, waste of time driving and paying money for entry fee and possible food/drinks at the place.
During the BCA yrs that I worked, John Lewis always felt proper payout was 40% of the field.
I played in an event at Calif Billiards in 2016? ish pro event, and DO and Pag got 1st and second or 3rd, but my point was $$$$it was about a 10K purse, top two got about 7G's. How fair was that :).
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
During the BCA yrs that I worked, John Lewis always felt proper payout was 40% of the field.
I played in an event at Calif Billiards in 2016? ish pro event, and DO and Pag got 1st and second or 3rd, but my point was $$$$it was about a 10K purse, top two got about 7G's. How fair was that :).

40% has to be an outlier idea, everyone I have talked to about this feels 25% is just about right, unless it's a fun little thing more than an actual tournament. Top 3 is pretty much a cutthroat best players get the money, 40% is about the opposite of that, too much spread out for those that did not do well. In a 32 man field top 8 is a good payout with 6/8 getting their money back or a bit more and going from there. There may be only a few in an open local area field that can finish top 2, but there is a much larger group of players that can compete for 3-8th. I am not talking about things like the US Opens or some other events that bring in Pro and A++ players, but just your average local weekly or monthly event with a $10 or $20 entry with 20-32 or so players. Those tend to have only a few clear favorites, some that are likely to cash and some that need a ton of luck to get even a set win. The middle class always seems to get the shaft even in pool tournaments LOL you are good enough to finish top 8, but they don't give you money for that.
 
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Island Drive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
40% has to be an outlier idea, everyone I have talked to about this feels 25% is just about right, unless it's a fun little thing more than an actual tournament. Top 3 is pretty much a cutthroat best players get the money, 40% is about the opposite of that, too much spread out for those that did not do well. In a 32 man field top 8 is a good payout with 6/8 getting their money back or a bit more and going from there. There may be only a few in an open local area field that can finish top 2, but there is a much larger group of players that can compete for 3-8th. I am not talking about things like the US Opens or some other events that bring in Pro and A++ players, but just your average local weekly or monthly event with a $10 or $20 entry with 20-32 or so players. Those tend to have only a few clear favorites, some that are likely to cash and some that need a ton of luck to get even a set win. The middle class always seems to get the shaft even in pool tournaments LOL you are good enough to finish top 8, but they don't give you money for that.

Just giving another perspective, when the BCA Nationals occurred in Vegas, with 240 bar tables and nearly 5,000 players. It worked well in that business model is all.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just giving another perspective, when the BCA Nationals occurred in Vegas, with 240 bar tables and nearly 5,000 players. It worked well in that business model is all.

I agree for a league payout where you can say "Show up and get some money" this is a good idea, especially with that many players and league dues going in. SBE has a pretty deep payout also, I think you just need to win two matches to cash.
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
Post of the Year....

I don't enter ball-banger tournaments. A race to 2? How about a trophy for the player that can twirl his cue like an airplane propeller the fastest?
Lets see...race to 2. Looks like I better bring 2 break sticks and 2 jump cues, 2 gloves and my own rack.
Hey, can we get the 3 foul rule to not apply in this format? Mind if I video the match for Youtube?
In a 16 player field, will you pay the top 12 places?

I haven't been here all that long, but this has to be the post of the year...lol

:thumbup:
 

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
[...]
So, for you Fargo boys, you can 2 step weeek after week. Get your numbers dropped then play a big tourney on a weekend. AND GET PAID. YAYYYYYY!
It is what it is.

Well yes. But let's put a few things in perspective.

That weekend tournament where you came alive you may have played six race-to 6 matches, about 60 games at full speed.

Let's say your lay-down speed is 100 points lower. The low-entry weekly tournament is a race to 3, and you're probably going 3 and out or so--playing about a dozen games each week.

So it took 5 weeks of time, entry fee, no payout, and maybe some "Come on, man" comments, just to have an influence that matches that of your one come-alive tournament.

On top of this, your five lay-down tournaments followed by your come-alive tournament are public, and they stay public as kind of a permanent photo of your hand in the cookie jar.

And this is a big one. Try negotiating gambling matches when a common answer to the question,

"what's he rated?"

starts with "630, BUT ..."

You may think you're in this great position because you believe the 630 is 20 points light. The problem, though, is people making games with you assume the "BUT" is worth 40 points.

Finally, if others at the venue of your weekly tournament have the same idea, the system can start seeing results from that tournament or venue as less reliable and consequently weight them less.

All in all, the cost is higher than it at first appears.
 

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
tournaments with a-d players no handicaps. Short race. 8 ball race to 2. 9 ball race to 4. What do think? Would you enter?

My experience with this type of tournament, is that week after week you give your money away, and once in a while you get close, but now you just spent more time , giving your money away. Then one day , you play the best pool of your life or get craphouse lucky and you somehow miraculously win against all odds . You would think someone would say attaboy but no ,Now everyone hates you because you took their 20 dollars and calcutta money and they wasted a whole day for nothing . You will be listening to at least 2 guys screaming at you to play some, and they will have backers screaming at you {losers in the calcutta} to get some courage, blah blah blah . If that sounds fun to you , have at it.
I'm not knocking it , just giving you a real life experience to judge from, do with it what you will.
 
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