trading and dealing with the big dealers....

cueaddicts said:
1) The "Cash is King" saying is sad but true. When you lay out several thousand dollars or more for booth fees, travel expenses, food and lodging, etc. just to do a show like the Derby, cash intake in essential. Even trades don't pay for your expenses....plain and simple. If you don't take in cash, it makes it real hard to continue doing shows.
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i agree with sean that even trades do not help a dealer but not for the same reasons. a shows booth expense should be considered like any other and not attempted to be recouped within the one show but over time. and when dealers are at a show they're competition is as well. so the margins are going to be slimmer than usual because of the competition, not higher.

but if you are talking about two cues of exactly equal value dealers should not trade equal! unless they want to go out of business. this would only be a favor for whoever initiated the trade. it would not be a profitable transaction for a dealer. they are in business to make a profit and profit is not a bad word.

like chris said a trade with a dealer ultimately involves TWO transactions because they have to then sell the trade to recoup their investment. so you would essentially be asking them to do you a favor and not only that but have to sell a cue (your trade) later just to get their money. and there would be no profit in either transaction.

for there to be no money involved a dealer would HAVE to recieve a cue in trade of MORE value to make it worth their time and effort.

everybody has their own ideas about what their cue is worth. but dealers have to stand back and look at it objectively. if they are offered a cue on trade that they know is not a quick selling maker and then they have to take into consideration how long it will take to turn the trade and figure for it based on that.

if a dealer cannot make a profit on BOTH transactions then they have NO reason to do the trade. and this doesnt just apply to the cue business but cars and a lot of other items that are traded for new of other used items.
 
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scruggsinhand said:
hey Joe,

at the time i got the cue for 1800 it was about a 2200 retail cue. this makers prices have gone up to where now the same cue is an easy 3500...so yes i should be able to expect more for what i invested. i paid $800 for a new inlaid omega from john wright(RIP), are you telling me its not worth at least 2k now???

so again, if i were to follow your logic....if i were to buy a southwest for $1200 approx. 5 years ago (which could have been easily done), then i should not expect 2200 solid trade money today...i dont think so and that is what my point is....how about one that is hand signed and dated???....how much more would it be worth?

i am not going to give the exact cuemaker name...but the names here are in the same league/ballpark. these cues i speak of are highly desirable on both ends and have always went up in value over time.

call it haggling/lowballing/stealing/bulldoggin...its the same thing...not tryin to shake anyones tree. we call it lowballin,,,,no matter what side you are on.
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Ok.. without the names of the cuemakers then its really irrelevant. I don't know who the dealer was, but as good a cue as a Cognoscenti may be, we don't take them in trade. There are reasons for everything. I said in my second post that if a cuemaker had skyrocketed it should come into play.
No, you should not expect 2200 for trade money on a SW. Lets say I had a Hercek and you offered me a SW I could sell for 2200. Well thats fine and good, if it sells right away. Routinely you would probably get offered 1600, and I think every dealer would be in that neighborhood.

Joe
 
iconcue said:
joe
i don't constantly change my posts. i did on this occasion because spanky was here when i was posting but had left when i finished. then i saw you were here so i changed it to your name. didnt think it was that big of deal.
guess you awoke in a mood?
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Jeff,
I think if you looked at 90% of your posts they have all been edited.

Joe
 
classiccues said:
Jeff,
I think if you looked at 90% of your posts they have all been edited.

Joe
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Quoting Mel Brooks - "It good to be da King"

Shorty
 
First thing...this guy who keeps changing & deleting his posts got accused of the same in another thread. Guess he just can't ever stand behind what he says.

Second, why is this customer trying to trade this cue refusing to give the name away? I can think of no reason for this except that he is not telling the whole truth. Oh my god, be shocked that someone actually tried to make money!! Honestly, I dont care what someone's expenses were to get to the DCC. I had my expenses for being there too. But I will never be offended in someone trying to make money. If you think that you are the first person to ever receive an initial lowball offer then you are naive. There has to be a starting point. Why would a cue dealer want to do a deal where he breaks even or takes in a used cue in trade? Most of these cue dealers have connections and if he wanted the cue you had for his inventory he could probably get it without dealing with you. Now if he makes a nice profit and is stuck with your cue that makes sense to me. Put your $3500 cue signed ivory inlayed special super duper cue on ebay and get the whole world to bid on it and let us know how you do. In fact, post the auction link here. That would be interesting. I am going to bet that doesn't happen.

BTW, got to www.kbb.com and see the difference in dealer trade in value vs retail for your GTO. I am going to bet it is more than the 10% that you were looking for from the cue dealer in question.
 
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Everyone wants to come out on top in a trade situation,,,,,,,,,its the nature of the beast. And we all have a bit of larceny in us, so we all want a great deal. This hardly ever happens, however if you wait long enough it will. I remember this cue a guy tryed to sell to me for fifty bucks and I turned it down. He told me to see if anyone wanted it and entrusted it to me till I saw him again. Came to find out it was worth a reasonable amount of cash. I gave him fifty next time I saw him and we were both elated.
 
Sorry but if you paid $1800 for the cue then that is what it worth not $2200. It is only worth $2200 if you SELL it for $2200. Rookie cue buyers kill me!
 
MO4 said:
Sorry but if you paid $1800 for the cue then that is what it worth not $2200. It is only worth $2200 if you SELL it for $2200. Rookie cue buyers kill me!
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people who cant read, kill me...

it retailed for 2200 at the time i paid 1800 for it
 
I agree with the majority of what cueaddicts and tate above. I have traded with Sean/Scott Murphey several times in the past, and have always been pleased when I walked away from the deal. I have also walked away from them when I didn't like what was offered from their end. No feelings hurt on either side. I think most dealers get 25-35% (in some cases more), so they see cue prices lower to start with. I know where there is a 6 floating point Scruggs right now from the with 14kt gold inlays for $1500. The cue, to replace it from Tim would probably be in the $3000 range, but the guy can't get rid of it for $1500 (at least for the past YEAR)! Some cues might have everything going for them on paper except the market.

Sean, I disagree with you somewhat when you speak about the cost of setting up the booth, etc. That is part of being a dealer. You don't need to mark cues up higher just because you have higher operating cost, you simply have to sell more cues. I equate this with car dealers who set up at big events. The cost of the setup should come back to you in the volume that you sell. It shouldn't raise your prices. The fact that you are at a big event and will have a lot of traffic pass your booth is why you spend the money in the first place.

Brian, Dont lose any sleep over it. Every dealer has and will lowball pricing on trades. That's the name of the game. I'm sure you do the same when trying to buy cues from others. The worst thing they can say is no. If they say yes, you smile to yourself, get the cue and walk away.
 
cuenut said:
....I disagree with you somewhat when you speak about the cost of setting up the booth, etc. That is part of being a dealer. You don't need to mark cues up higher just because you have higher operating cost, you simply have to sell more cues. I equate this with car dealers who set up at big events. The cost of the setup should come back to you in the volume that you sell. It shouldn't raise your prices. The fact that you are at a big event and will have a lot of traffic pass your booth is why you spend the money in the first place.
Hey Scott,

Went back and reread my post after seeing your reply. I hope my comments do not lead you or others to think that our prices at a show have anything to do with the costs of the booth at such an event because that is not the case. We have always priced our cues at what we feel "retail" or "market value" is at that time....and based on some of the prices I saw in other booths last week, think ours are quite competitive.

I was simply trying to offer some insight into things from our perspective about trade offers at events such as this and hope this helps. Totally agree with you about the rest of this post.

Sean
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dealers

Joe,sean,mark,don,I have delt with all of you over the last 7 years or so and believe that you are all fair in dealing with you at shows. I have been buying cues on ebay also and its about 50-50 now were I go but going to a show and being able to examine and even hit with some of these cues is worth the extra premium.I realize that there not there to break even and I expect to make money when I work and its a job for them too so they need to make a profit also. Latley buying on ebay has been a adventure,shafts wrong size,weight off,lenght different ,condition wrong,so dealing directly has its benifits. If I feel the price is too high for me to get into a cue I just walk away,no hard feelings at all,thats business. I come back later,the cue I wanted is gone(so somebody thought it was a good price) but there's 2 more I like better so the haggling starts all over again! Thats the fun of going to the shows,the stock is always changing.
Charley in VA.
 
scruggsinhand said:
people who cant read, kill me...

it retailed for 2200 at the time i paid 1800 for it
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The retail price, as they say "SUGGESTED retail" price, may be $1800 but fair market value (the price the cue sold for ) was $1800. That is all the cue is worth until you can talk someone into giving you more than that. Sorry to disapoint you but facts are facts. E-mail me if you want to sell the cue for $1800. Thanks.
 
It also depends on the cue dealer and what they feel they can move, etc. As an example, I had a couple of cues I wanted to deal during DCC. One dealer offered me $1800 for the pair, another offered me $2900...guess which one I went with.
 
cuedoctor said:
Joe,sean,mark,don,I have delt with all of you over the last 7 years or so and believe that you are all fair in dealing with you at shows. I have been buying cues on ebay also and its about 50-50 now were I go but going to a show and being able to examine and even hit with some of these cues is worth the extra premium.I realize that there not there to break even and I expect to make money when I work and its a job for them too so they need to make a profit also. Latley buying on ebay has been a adventure,shafts wrong size,weight off,lenght different ,condition wrong,so dealing directly has its benifits. If I feel the price is too high for me to get into a cue I just walk away,no hard feelings at all,thats business. I come back later,the cue I wanted is gone(so somebody thought it was a good price) but there's 2 more I like better so the haggling starts all over again! Thats the fun of going to the shows,the stock is always changing.
Charley in VA.
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E-Bay has become such a crap shoot. I am to the point where I am not going to bid unless I know for sure someone COMPETENT has checked the cue, or at least it will be accepted for a return. I can't tell you how many "straight" cues there are out there warped a full 1/4" or more, it's disgusting.

Chris
 
MO4 said:
The retail price, as they say "SUGGESTED retail" price, may be $1800 but fair market value (the price the cue sold for ) was $1800. That is all the cue is worth until you can talk someone into giving you more than that. Sorry to disapoint you but facts are facts. E-mail me if you want to sell the cue for $1800. Thanks.
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in a "collectors" market it's never the price you pay for something but rather what the "market" price is. most market prices, in allot of cases, are set by dealers who are the ones who deal with the collectors (us), find our interests and can set market prices based on the old supply and demand theory. that does'nt mean that the prices they want are the rule but they give a good guideline to the collector of what it might take to get what they want.
 
I know ...

I thought I had a million dollar girlfriend, but only got
a $100 when I put her on the block .... lol
 
Sorry Sean, I was trying to point out why a dealer might not want to haggle down on their price with someone. If you talk your price down too much, you can't make any profit considering your cost of doing business compared to a guy like me who doesn't have to foot the bill for the show or rely on sales to make a profit.

Your operating costs are normally not considered by the guys who frequent your booth. All they care about is bottom dollar. You also have to consider in your dealings whether that person might be a repeat customer (as in my case). As Chris stated in his, I know that I have taken a couple of cues off Scott's hands that he had trouble moving. I can get a better deal that way, and he ends up with something that he can turn quicker. For you, new inventory means a better chance for a quick turn-around. Everyone has a different motive.

I think it makes a world of difference if it is for fun or profit. If YOU sell cues and never get the upper hand (profit) in a deal, you would be stupid to stay in business. I can break even for fun and just get a new toy. BIIIIGG difference!

I hope my comments didn't offend you, Jeff, Matt, or Scott. I want to continue dealing with you guys.
 
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