Trained or natural?
- Thread starter Bob Callahan
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Another great book is. The talent code by Daniel coyle. But I believe that greatness is achieved through hard work and dedication. Do some folks have naturally better hand eye coordination? Maybe. But anyone can be a champion. It's how hard do you want to work to achieve that.
Bob Grimshaw
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Love for the game
I believe you have to want to practice and work hard to be good no matter what you chose to do. If you don't love holding a cue and controlling a cue ball dropping numbered balls in pockets, you'll never be good no matter how hard you work, and that comes from inside.
I believe you have to want to practice and work hard to be good no matter what you chose to do. If you don't love holding a cue and controlling a cue ball dropping numbered balls in pockets, you'll never be good no matter how hard you work, and that comes from inside.
Yes, some players just have a netural talent for the game.I've seen players that just seem to have what it takes,with practice and effort of course. On the other hand, some don't. I know a couple of people who've played a lot of pool and they just seem to get worse instead of better.
We are not born equil thats for sure. Some have better ability to acheive than others no doubt. That being said, I dont believe in natural talent. I think it is a term invented by sports reporters to explain to themselves why they are not Michael Jordan but instead make an average salary reporting on him.
The bar bangers will talk about natural talent because it places blame elsewhere. It's not that they had a weak work ethic or just plain didn't spend the time that it requires to be a champion. Instead it is some mystical thing that they were not born with.
Beleive me folks, the first step to learning anything is taking responsebility for not knowing it already.
Now stop pushing buttons and go hit balls till your fingers bleed!!
The bar bangers will talk about natural talent because it places blame elsewhere. It's not that they had a weak work ethic or just plain didn't spend the time that it requires to be a champion. Instead it is some mystical thing that they were not born with.
Beleive me folks, the first step to learning anything is taking responsebility for not knowing it already.
Now stop pushing buttons and go hit balls till your fingers bleed!!
Interesting topic 
I've introduced quite a few beginners to the world of pool and helped them train. Some of them were more enthusiastic and really loved the game, while others weren't so dedicated, they simply liked playing games with friends, the same way they'd play darts or whatever. However, I haven't noticed a significant connection between their dedication and the amount of matches they played, and their actual results and improvement. Sure, those who played a lot simply got better due to experience, but there were those who made unbelievable progress after just a few games.
It appears that talent truly matters, but most of it can be compensated through enough practise. What matters more than talent is smart thinking and the ability to improvise and use your imagination. After all, some of those beginners who quickly learned how to think well in pool improved a lot faster, while those who just played without using their brains properly made almost no progress at all. So yeah, practise, be persistent, think and practise more!
I've introduced quite a few beginners to the world of pool and helped them train. Some of them were more enthusiastic and really loved the game, while others weren't so dedicated, they simply liked playing games with friends, the same way they'd play darts or whatever. However, I haven't noticed a significant connection between their dedication and the amount of matches they played, and their actual results and improvement. Sure, those who played a lot simply got better due to experience, but there were those who made unbelievable progress after just a few games.It appears that talent truly matters, but most of it can be compensated through enough practise. What matters more than talent is smart thinking and the ability to improvise and use your imagination. After all, some of those beginners who quickly learned how to think well in pool improved a lot faster, while those who just played without using their brains properly made almost no progress at all. So yeah, practise, be persistent, think and practise more!
The question is are there naturals and the answer is absolutely yes. Are there "natural" champions? Rarely if ever.
Alex Higgins might be an example of a person who was a natural at Snooker. His style was very erratic and undisciplined and yet he managed to play at a world class level. He probably got most of his experience through playing and gambling at snooker rather than focused practice and coaching.
I think people like the idea of the "natural" more than the "made" player. It's more romantic and speaks to the hero in all of us and the idea that we all have some kind of talent that comes easily to us.
The nature/nurture debate will rage endlessly. In truth it's probably always going to be a combination of both. The thing that I like to hear least however is when someone says I was born to do this or he was born to do that. No you're not. When you are born you are a blank slate and you can end up in so many ways depending on your circumstances, your parents or lack of parents, influences, opportunities, AND your own drive, which may be natural or may have been beaten into you.
Alex Higgins might be an example of a person who was a natural at Snooker. His style was very erratic and undisciplined and yet he managed to play at a world class level. He probably got most of his experience through playing and gambling at snooker rather than focused practice and coaching.
I think people like the idea of the "natural" more than the "made" player. It's more romantic and speaks to the hero in all of us and the idea that we all have some kind of talent that comes easily to us.
The nature/nurture debate will rage endlessly. In truth it's probably always going to be a combination of both. The thing that I like to hear least however is when someone says I was born to do this or he was born to do that. No you're not. When you are born you are a blank slate and you can end up in so many ways depending on your circumstances, your parents or lack of parents, influences, opportunities, AND your own drive, which may be natural or may have been beaten into you.
Stephen Hawking - born to highly intelligent and intellectual parents who placed high value on education and were extremely active in the mental development of their children.
Put him in rural America and you can get 100-1 that he doesn't become a world-renowned physicist.
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Da Vinci - "Born out of wedlock to a notary, Piero da Vinci, and a peasant woman, Caterina, at Vinci in the region of Florence, Leonardo was educated in the studio of the renowned Florentine painter, Verrocchio. Much of his earlier working life was spent in the service of Ludovico il Moro in Milan. He later worked in Rome, Bologna and Venice, and he spent his last years in France at the home awarded him by Francis I."
Almost to a person you will find some circumstance that formed great people. Some influence or mentoring or "right place/right time" type of situation.
And so many more throw away the opportunities that they have. So that is where character and drive come in. When a person doesn't waste opportunities and gains the experience and expertise in a field then they are regarded as naturals. The harder you work the easier it looks to people who can't do it.
If there were "Naturals", then why would the body need to practice for such an extended period of time to develope muscle memory in order to perform well?
Natural... implies that it comes without effort. The fact that many very good players make it look easy is not evidence that there are "naturals".
It takes tremendous effort to reach the advanced levels. While it may be easier for some than others....I don't believe there are "Naturals".
Would someone naturally know how to run a complex rack of 9 ball having never played the game before?
Even if you assumed that they could naturally pick up a stick and execute a shot with perfect form....there is a huge learning curve on every aspect of the game.
I guess it all boils down to the way you define.."Natural".
Natural... implies that it comes without effort. The fact that many very good players make it look easy is not evidence that there are "naturals".
It takes tremendous effort to reach the advanced levels. While it may be easier for some than others....I don't believe there are "Naturals".
Would someone naturally know how to run a complex rack of 9 ball having never played the game before?
Even if you assumed that they could naturally pick up a stick and execute a shot with perfect form....there is a huge learning curve on every aspect of the game.
I guess it all boils down to the way you define.."Natural".
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I agree.
However, while there are probably no naturally good players, there almost certainly are players who are naturally bad. ...I expect there are plenty of people who could receive the best training and put in all the hours of practice available under the sun, and still never get very far in a pro tournament.
Of course there is natural talent if teaching and practice were all it takes their would be hundreds in Eferans class
I have a friend who plays every day every turny he can get in has taken lessons reads books watches videos and has never got any better
I hardly play never been taught and will give him the last 4
1
I have a friend who plays every day every turny he can get in has taken lessons reads books watches videos and has never got any better
I hardly play never been taught and will give him the last 4
1
First and foremost, to be a natural, one must exert a modicum of practice to become proficient.
There are, however, some people who may be more adept to achieving proficiency because of their background and may require less practice than others.
They say a human being's personality and character traits are formed in the first 2 years of life.
Take typing, as an example. I don't know why I can bang out 150-plus words per minute on a QWERTY keyboard effortlessly for many years, while others struggle to reach a speed above 80 words per minute.
With pool, if a young boy envisions pool as his survival, meaning where he will get his next meal, he might be inclined to apply himself to playing pool more seriously than the young boy who lives in an affluent environment and does not have any monetary worries.
There are some pool players who could see heights beyond our gaze from the very first time they picked up a cuestick. Their trek to the top becomes their sole passion in life, their first priority. Because of this, they will put pool above getting an education, starting a family, purchasing a cool sports car, and developing a traditional career in the business world.
I do believe there are so-called "naturals" in any endeavor, but the passion must be there to achieve greatness.
I'm currently working on a project about a college sports coach who is having trouble getting his team to perform. It is all about the power of positive thinking. Once you understand the mechanical skills of the game, to include pool, the rest of it is in the mind. There is something to be said about the power of positive thinking in the sports world -- heck, in any success, one doesn't achieve it unless they have strong self-confidence and positive thinking. It's no different in pool.
There are, however, some people who may be more adept to achieving proficiency because of their background and may require less practice than others.
They say a human being's personality and character traits are formed in the first 2 years of life.
Take typing, as an example. I don't know why I can bang out 150-plus words per minute on a QWERTY keyboard effortlessly for many years, while others struggle to reach a speed above 80 words per minute.
With pool, if a young boy envisions pool as his survival, meaning where he will get his next meal, he might be inclined to apply himself to playing pool more seriously than the young boy who lives in an affluent environment and does not have any monetary worries.
There are some pool players who could see heights beyond our gaze from the very first time they picked up a cuestick. Their trek to the top becomes their sole passion in life, their first priority. Because of this, they will put pool above getting an education, starting a family, purchasing a cool sports car, and developing a traditional career in the business world.
I do believe there are so-called "naturals" in any endeavor, but the passion must be there to achieve greatness.
I'm currently working on a project about a college sports coach who is having trouble getting his team to perform. It is all about the power of positive thinking. Once you understand the mechanical skills of the game, to include pool, the rest of it is in the mind. There is something to be said about the power of positive thinking in the sports world -- heck, in any success, one doesn't achieve it unless they have strong self-confidence and positive thinking. It's no different in pool.
I played Kieth down in the old champions in silver spring after he beat me in about 42 seconds I looked at him and said nice shooting you were in top gear he says back " well they were all out there and I got a couple of good rolls and I play a lot " I said " ya and you got a lot of natural talent " he says " oh ya there's that too"
Priceless
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LOL! Hey, One Stroke, I miss that pool room. It was kind of rundown as the years wore on, but when I used to work there graveyard shift, when Bubba was still alive before Joan took it over, we had action every night. :grin-square:
Miss those days. Are you going to that other pool room in Silver Spring that you have to go downstairs to the room?
I know there is such a thing as "naturals". Heck, I seen it once in a movie starring Robert Redford :wink:!!!
Joking aside, I do believe in "natural" abilitiy. Like others have stated, some people just "have" what many others do not. The difference between a natural player and a champion is the hard work.
Maniac
Joking aside, I do believe in "natural" abilitiy. Like others have stated, some people just "have" what many others do not. The difference between a natural player and a champion is the hard work.
Maniac
Natural talent alone cannot make you a champion. But with hard work, combined with natural talent and ambition, it will take you farther than the person without natural ability.
So, yes, there is natural talent.
So, yes, there is natural talent.
hi
nobody has natural talent at just pool. people with natural talent are good at every game or sport and great if they dedicate themselves.
take earl. world class at pool by 16 years old,has shot in the 60s a couple times at golf,plays real solid tennis.
cj same at pool,monster at tennis,martial arts,
rodney morris is very good at basketball,golf,tennis,etc basically everything he tries hes good at.
we all know that guy in life that is almost instantly good at any game or sport ,then if he really applies himself at one of the games he becomes world class.
there are people with a ton of hand eye coordination,agility,strength,brains etc and there are people without a abundance of those qualities.
if anybody believe doing something everyday will automatically make them play something world class then id have 200 golf buddies on the pro tour and another 5000 apa players that played fantastic.
all the pro golfers practice as much as tiger has and he has like 72 wins and mickelson has 40 . thats double the wins for tiger and trust me phil has practiced just as much.
another example there is some propool players that have practiced as much or more then say myself but day in day out they need a spot from me.
natural talent to me means an ability to become good or great even at just about anything and get there twice as fast as everybody else.
i know many people like that and im sure everybody on here does too.
people say if u practice 10,000 hours u will guaranteed be world class.
maybe ,maybe not . thing is the guys with natural talent got there in 2000 hours.
nobody has natural talent at just pool. people with natural talent are good at every game or sport and great if they dedicate themselves.
take earl. world class at pool by 16 years old,has shot in the 60s a couple times at golf,plays real solid tennis.
cj same at pool,monster at tennis,martial arts,
rodney morris is very good at basketball,golf,tennis,etc basically everything he tries hes good at.
we all know that guy in life that is almost instantly good at any game or sport ,then if he really applies himself at one of the games he becomes world class.
there are people with a ton of hand eye coordination,agility,strength,brains etc and there are people without a abundance of those qualities.
if anybody believe doing something everyday will automatically make them play something world class then id have 200 golf buddies on the pro tour and another 5000 apa players that played fantastic.
all the pro golfers practice as much as tiger has and he has like 72 wins and mickelson has 40 . thats double the wins for tiger and trust me phil has practiced just as much.
another example there is some propool players that have practiced as much or more then say myself but day in day out they need a spot from me.
natural talent to me means an ability to become good or great even at just about anything and get there twice as fast as everybody else.
i know many people like that and im sure everybody on here does too.
people say if u practice 10,000 hours u will guaranteed be world class.
maybe ,maybe not . thing is the guys with natural talent got there in 2000 hours.
I agree with john. As Vince Lombardi said
"Practice does not make perfect, only perfect practice makes perfect."
I love that quote. I don't shoot for hrs a day. I see my probs and I fix them. I spent an hr just on my stroke the other day. I saw on video that my tip was moving each time.
As for naturals they're out there. That doesn't mean they can take short cuts. This simply means that the game is just easier to them.
"Practice does not make perfect, only perfect practice makes perfect."
I love that quote. I don't shoot for hrs a day. I see my probs and I fix them. I spent an hr just on my stroke the other day. I saw on video that my tip was moving each time.
As for naturals they're out there. That doesn't mean they can take short cuts. This simply means that the game is just easier to them.