Trans debate arrives into Pro woman’s Billiards

JustPlay said:
If the women do not want it, the only option I see is ALL the women boycotting a tournament. Then the pressure will be placed back on the promoters and tournament host.
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except they wont because they'll be labeled bigots, cnn will smear them, sponsors will receive thousands of threatening phone calls, as will tournament venues, resulting in dropped financial support for the players, cancelled tournaments, and mobs will probably form infront of their houses to threaten them and their children. We've seen this play out....oh i dont know.....a thousand times.
 
skiergd011013 said:
except they wont because they'll be labeled bigots, cnn will smear them, sponsors will receive thousands of threatening phone calls, as will tournament venues, resulting in dropped financial support for the players, cancelled tournaments, and mobs will probably form infront of their houses to threaten them and their children. We've seen this play out....oh i dont know.....a thousand times.
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But it's ok to be a coward. Got it.
 
On the linked article, someone said, "A fair amount of shots require power, such as deep screw or splitting the pack, which will disadvantage women. There are a couple of professional male players who lack cue power, and it’s a handicap to their game because they can’t play certain shots."

=

IMO, that is possibly part of it but to me, it's the superior eye-hand coordination that males have. It is evident in countless sports. FWIW, just a few days ago, I was having a conversation with someone that I enjoy watching pool on tv/youtube. Men and women. But more men than women. Because women do not play at quite the level of excellence that men do. They miss too many makeable shots. Men miss shots, too, even at the top levels, but not as often as women, even the top-ranked. It just has to be something inherent in being male that provides better hand-eye coordination. Others mention spatial awareness; that could play a part. But it does seem to be SOMEthing other than strength.

As for a person born a male who wishes to compete in women-only sports... I do not think that is fair.
 
theyonger said:
I dont get why it matters. Only thing I can think of is the generally average height advantage that men have over women. But we have a lot of pro male players that are short.

I am supporting of having a women's only division to get some equality and female specific recognition (Historically men have played a lot longer so there is generational influence and experience). A men's only division shouldn't even exist, it should just be an open division. Trans male to female should be able to participate in the women's only divisions.
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I heartily disagree…there’s only two genders…with rare exceptions.
If they’re going to allow men to compete in a lady’s tournament, the ladies should refuse to enter..same for all the sports.
…..transgenders can have their own competitions.
 
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To me, this is the kind of issue that should be covered in the rules of the World Confederation of Billiard Sports as handed down from the IOC. A policy on how to handle these sorts of situations, in the optimal scenario, needs to be uniform across the sports. This issue is a lot bigger than cue sports.
 
On the trans issues, I have my own opinions but no useful perspectives to share and personally don’t choose to engage in online debates on these types of things. The whole thing is a huge weird confusing mess. We’re clearly going to see this play out in all sports and aspects of society… SJM’s summary above covers it for me.

I do find the male dominance of our sport interesting. I quit being a pool bum for 25 years until getting back into the game in early Covid lockdowns. I essentially replaced pool in my life with scuba diving. Technical/cave diving is an even more testosterone/ego driven sport than pool. I’ve also dabbled with competitive shooting, and aggressive snow skiing. All of which have similar issues. In both diving & shooting what I’ve observed is that while there are very few females relative to males at the higher levels, the ones that do get super into it tend to be excellent. These activities tend to require a fair amount of aggression & courage to pursue and like pool, have a huge mental component.

Diving is the area I’m most experienced with - generally females that do break through & excel are much more natural & fluid in the water, are much calmer under stress and generally make much higher quality, reliable buddies. Also, they tend to be much more organized, detail oriented, better students, and give & take feedback much better.

So its curious to me why we don’t see more females active & excelling in pool, since many of these these qualities are key characteristics in billiards. There are clearly tasks that each gender has stronger & weaker elements, but in pool I suspect the basic aggression component of teststerone creates a barrier to initial entry in the typical bar/poolhall env and male dominated cultural/historical nature of the sport has just put females behind the curve. Personally I’m not so sure about the hand-eye coordination aspects - this may appear to be the case, but generational dominance of males in such activities may mask some of these issues. Ladies fast pitch softball pitchers are nothing short of amazing and there are certainly many many super high level lady action & bullseye shooters that don’t have significantly lower scores/times than top level males.

I totally understand the justification for having separate male/female divisions in pool, especially in terms of top women being practically disadvantaged in top rankings vs men - but it also seems to me that more intermingling and exposure may level that out over time. And it would be more fun & enrichen the sport overall for all of us IMO.

Just some thoughts. Complex stuff & I have no good solutions. One thing for sure, ladies sure do smell better!

✌️
 
Na
phreaticus said:
On the trans issues, I have my own opinions but no useful perspectives to share and personally don’t choose to engage in online debates on these types of things. The whole thing is a huge weird confusing mess. We’re clearly going to see this play out in all sports and aspects of society… SJM’s summary above covers it for me.

I do find the male dominance of our sport interesting. I quit being a pool bum for 25 years until getting back into the game in early Covid lockdowns. I essentially replaced pool in my life with scuba diving. Technical/cave diving is an even more testosterone/ego driven sport than pool. I’ve also dabbled with competitive shooting, and aggressive snow skiing. All of which have similar issues. In both diving & shooting what I’ve observed is that while there are very few females relative to males at the higher levels, the ones that do get super into it tend to be excellent. These activities tend to require a fair amount of aggression & courage to pursue and like pool, have a huge mental component.

Diving is the area I’m most experienced with - generally females that do break through & excel are much more natural & fluid in the water, are much calmer under stress and generally make much higher quality, reliable buddies. Also, they tend to be much more organized, detail oriented, better students, and give & take feedback much better.

So its curious to me why we don’t see more females active & excelling in pool, since many of these these qualities are key characteristics in billiards. There are clearly tasks that each gender has stronger & weaker elements, but in pool I suspect the basic aggression component of teststerone creates a barrier to initial entry in the typical bar/poolhall env and male dominated cultural/historical nature of the sport has just put females behind the curve. Personally I’m not so sure about the hand-eye coordination aspects - this may appear to be the case, but generational dominance of males in such activities may mask some of these issues. Ladies fast pitch softball pitchers are nothing short of amazing and there are certainly many many super high level lady action & bullseye shooters that don’t have significantly lower scores/times than top level males.

I totally understand the justification for having separate male/female divisions in pool, especially in terms of top women being practically disadvantaged in top rankings vs men - but it also seems to me that more intermingling and exposure may level that out over time. And it would be more fun & enrichen the sport overall for all of us IMO.

Just some thoughts. Complex stuff & I have no good solutions. One thing for sure, ladies sure do smell better!

✌️
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Maybe women know better then to devote a huge portion of their life to a game that gives little in rewards? So maybe they are smarter then men.
 
The author sounds like the usual transphobic gibberish that we have on this side of the pond (in the Red states).
 
MJB said:
The author sounds like the usual transphobic gibberish that we have on this side of the pond (in the Red states).
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First, I like your avatar. I have an 8 yr blue weim that looks just like yours!

Regarding the author of the article I posted, it was clear that he’s not onboard with the mainstream trans agenda, and I probably could of looked for a more neutral source of the news to avoid this type of reaction. It seems like a uniquely complex issue in pool, as the gender related performance differences in this game have always been a bit of a mysterious issue…

But I also think its a huge error to label someone that has strong opinions on the issue as transphobic. Just like its a massive error to label all folks that may not support BLM type stuff as racist. Likewise its equally not helpful to label everyone who opposes the recent SCOTUS federal law change on abortion as woke-tard baby-killers. Not everyone that simply disagrees falls into the category of transphobic or racists, etc - there are many cultural & value issues involved in these topics and immediate denigration of other’s views does nothing to get us back to sane society. Free speech means we have to all be willing to be offended & tolerate various things we each consider to be BS from others without getting offended or silencing them.

Finally, I’m a bit curious on the pond comment. I’m pretty well traveled in EU & Asia, and as far as I can tell these issues are dividing those cultures also, with plenty of vocal proponents on both sides, same as we have here.

I make it a point to not get sucked into NPR & political type discussions & have tried to not interject any of my own personal views into the trans aspects of this discussion, as I don’t think any of us are going to change anyone’s mind via an Internet forum. But this one seemed interesting as it does directly relate to the game we all love, which is hopefully the common bond we all have here on AZB & the primary reason for being here. So far the thread has been remarkably civil on a quite thorny topic - that seems like some positive progress.

Cheers
 
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buckshotshoey said:
Na

Maybe women know better then to devote a huge portion of their life to a game that gives little in rewards? So maybe they are smarter then men.
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that’s been an argument for why men are so much better than women in chess

competition with no physical advantage to being bigger and taller
 
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