Trudeau in contempt...

[Fatboy]

Thanks Fatboy for all this good information. I just have one question for you. Howya hittin' 'em?

played 8 hours yesterday, i feel like I have a hangover and I dont drink, i'm hitting them better but not good enough, you here?

 

[chefjeff]

Most of you will find this hard to believe, but in this case, I lean on the side of Trudeau.

No, I don't support anything he says or does, nor to I support anything he is associated with - however I believe that their is a responsibility on the consumer to exercise common sense. All it takes is a little bit of research to educate yourself on the history of Kevin Trudeau. Google his name and see what comes up - a lot of it isn't good.

We cannot start limiting free speech - even if it means having Trudeau running around out there selling nonsense. If the government can limit Trudeau's rights, then you are opening the door to allowing them to limit yours whenever they feel like it.

Is it false advertising - yes.

Should we create case law where we can limit free speech? No.

Fraud is a milder form of force, but the effect is the same: unearned gain from innocents. It is similar to yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre. That is fraud, too. The result isn't money, but some other perceived gain for the yeller and costs for the victims (the theatre owner, trampled patrons, etc.)

Free speech is fine, but if you're frauding someone (with speech or whatever), you are taking something that doesn't belong to you.

And there are already laws to protect the innocent from fraud, even if they've become contorted and misused over the years.

Make sense?

Jeff Livingston

 

[Fleece3]

While this is a good thing that they might get him off the airwaves...its not a good thing for the pool players waiting to be paid. If he gets a heavy fine or jail time they won't be paid. I'm not saying the guy shouldn't due time...I just feel bad for the pool players if he does. Johnnyt

I think the players just got another round of checks. If true, that would bring the current PAID total to 77%.

 

[hemicudas]

Thanks Fatboy for all this good information. I just have one question for you. Howya hittin' 'em?

I was just wondering if anyone else has noticed that "Tony Soprano" look in Jay's new avatar.

 

[vagabond]

, the punishment dosent fit the crimes ever since Enron.

Fatboy,

VIII amendment of the US constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishments.Punishment should fit the crime.

But in real life the VIII Amendment has constantly been violated by the Law makers and judiciary especially if one is an African American or puertoRican or Native American Indian.

 

[av84fun]

Not really.


The FTC has gone after Kevin several times legally - Kevin has never spent a day in jail over it. Why? The FTC knows that they cannot convict him of anything because in doing so they will violate his first amendment rights. Plain and simple.

While Federal and many state laws provide for criminal sanctions for claims of false advertising, the vast majority of such claims are prosecuted under civil and not criminal law.

In fact, the FTC has done A LOT to KT, including forcing the sale of his home in California and his luxury car in meeting a former multi-million dollar judgment.

Just because he has not gone to jail over the false advertising claims does not mean that the FTC has in any way failed to successfully impose MAJOR sanctions against him.

And as we all know, he DID do time for credit card fraud...so, on top of everything else...he is a convicted felon...which means that he CAN'T just "go somewhere else" as you suggest...becasue convicted felons can't obtain passports...or vote for that matter.

And your suggestion that people with average or below intelligence know better than to believe what he says is just WAY off the mark.

First, intellegence of the victim(s) is not a standard by which people can claim exemption from the law.

Secondly, in an earlier post, you derided "aunt Sally" (or some similar name) for not knowing better. But it is well established FACT, that among the things that happen to aging people is that many of them suffer from declining IQs and become significantly more gullible than they were in their younger years.

I think it is fair to say that most laws are inacted to protect the less intelligent among us than the most and in any decent society, that is exactly how it should be.

I applaud you for stating that KT is some form of "scum" but where you and I part company is your apparent belief that we should live in some sort of Mad Max society where only the strong survive and tough luck for everyone else.

Publishing obvious falsehoods in exchange for money is illegal...and SHOULD be illegal and you are simply in error to suppose that there is anything in the First Amendment that protects such forms of speech.

Regards,
Jim

 

[shinobi]

Interesting that the judge noted that 15 colonics in 30 days was not easy.

That being the case, will the court please draw the line and declare how many is easy and how many is not?

 

[CaptiveBred]

Is KT still breathing? I thought the world had a "way" of "handling" the likes of him...

Guess everybody he screws over is soft... What are the odds of that? If I pissed off as many people as he does, I'd be dead by now...

 

[av84fun]

the FTC only deals in cival matters and dosent have the enforcement to put anyone in jail, they can take away all your $$$, the have to form whats called a multi-force task team and get the FBI, State Attorny Generals offices, Postal Inspectors(worse then the FBI) then your case goes criminal and you get locked up, the FTC cant do it alone. Just like city cops cant put you in the Fed camps just city jail, a juroy puts you oin state prison and the feds put you in a fed camp.

I think your comments are true for the most part (but not entirely correct as noted below) but sort of misses the point. You correctly point out that in most cases the FTC in and of itself does not file criminal actions. BUT the FTC is a CLIENT entity of the Department of Justice under a "referral process" that you alluded to.

Therefore, whether the FTC ON ITS OWN doesn't file criminal complaints understates its powers because if the FTC wants a criminal complaint filed and if they have the evidence...the DOJ is highly likely to file the complaint.


D. Criminal Actions

There are potential criminal penalties for violations of certain sections of the FTC Act. For instance, 15 U.S.C. ? 50 creates a misdemeanor for the refusal by a subpoenaed witness to testify at an FTC proceeding, or making a false entry or statement in a report that is submitted to the FTC. In addition, 15 U.S.C. ? 54, creates a misdemeanor for disseminating a false advertisement relating to a food, drug, device, or cosmetic. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. ? 401(3), OCL, with USAOs, brings criminal contempt actions for violations of district court orders obtained under the FTC Act or other acts the FTC enforces. See, e.g., United States v. Vlahos, 33 F.3d 758 (7th Cir. 1994) (procedural ruling in case alleging violations of order prohibiting deceptive acts related to advertising of government repossessed cars); United States v. Vlahos, 95 F.3d 1154 (table) 1996 WL 459937 (7th Cir. 1996) (affirming conviction after bench trial).

In recent criminal contempt actions, OCL has obtained sentences of four to five years' imprisonment for violations of final judgments in FTC cases. This has resulted from analysis under the Sentencing Guidelines which takes into account the amount of fraudulent behavior the defendant engaged in that violated the Order.



The Civil Division's Office of Consumer Litigation is responsible for criminal and civil litigation and related matters arising under a variety of federal statutes administered by its client agencies that protect public health and safety. On referrals from those agencies, the Office also enforces statutes that regulate unfair and deceptive trade practices, and defends government programs and policies in consumer-related areas. continue ...

 

[sydbarret]

becasue convicted felons can't obtain passports

This is besides the point but just so you know.. convicted felons can obtain passports.

 

[Fatboy]

Fatboy,

VIII amendment of the US constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishments.Punishment should fit the crime.

But in real life the VIII Amendment has constantly been violated by the Law makers and judiciary especially if one is an African American or puertoRican or Native American Indian.

i know whits guys who got 5-10 years for relemarketing and they wernt lieing, I knew a girl that got 8 months for being a secatary in a telemarketing company, my point is in America we have 2.2 million people behind bars-more than any other country in the world and were not the largest country, i feel the sentencing guidlines should be reviewed, and should be applied equally to all races and we know neither of those 2 things are gonna happen, they will just build more prisions

 

[Fatboy]

the FTC only deals in cival matters and dosent have the enforcement to put anyone in jail, they can take away all your $$$, the have to form whats called a multi-force task team and get the FBI, State Attorny Generals offices, Postal Inspectors(worse then the FBI) then your case goes criminal and you get locked up, the FTC cant do it alone. Just like city cops cant put you in the Fed camps just city jail, a juroy puts you oin state prison and the feds put you in a fed camp.

I think your comments are true for the most part (but not entirely correct as noted below) but sort of misses the point. You correctly point out that in most cases the FTC in and of itself does not file criminal actions. BUT the FTC is a CLIENT entity of the Department of Justice under a "referral process" that you alluded to.

Therefore, whether the FTC ON ITS OWN doesn't file criminal complaints understates its powers because if the FTC wants a criminal complaint filed and if they have the evidence...the DOJ is highly likely to file the complaint.


D. Criminal Actions

There are potential criminal penalties for violations of certain sections of the FTC Act. For instance, 15 U.S.C. ? 50 creates a misdemeanor for the refusal by a subpoenaed witness to testify at an FTC proceeding, or making a false entry or statement in a report that is submitted to the FTC. In addition, 15 U.S.C. ? 54, creates a misdemeanor for disseminating a false advertisement relating to a food, drug, device, or cosmetic. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. ? 401(3), OCL, with USAOs, brings criminal contempt actions for violations of district court orders obtained under the FTC Act or other acts the FTC enforces. See, e.g., United States v. Vlahos, 33 F.3d 758 (7th Cir. 1994) (procedural ruling in case alleging violations of order prohibiting deceptive acts related to advertising of government repossessed cars); United States v. Vlahos, 95 F.3d 1154 (table) 1996 WL 459937 (7th Cir. 1996) (affirming conviction after bench trial).

In recent criminal contempt actions, OCL has obtained sentences of four to five years' imprisonment for violations of final judgments in FTC cases. This has resulted from analysis under the Sentencing Guidelines which takes into account the amount of fraudulent behavior the defendant engaged in that violated the Order.



The Civil Division's Office of Consumer Litigation is responsible for criminal and civil litigation and related matters arising under a variety of federal statutes administered by its client agencies that protect public health and safety. On referrals from those agencies, the Office also enforces statutes that regulate unfair and deceptive trade practices, and defends government programs and policies in consumer-related areas. continue ...

thats kinda what i said, i'm not a lawyer just beedn around the block a few times, they get the feds involved, whats fun is when the feds come in and try and bring a case only to find out you have settled the civial matter and then the FTC then acts as your defence team and beats down the FBI beef!!!!! LOL it was great, before 95 the FTC had alot less power Clinton gave them legs and $$$ to go after all sorts of marketing, but they are just the lawyers for the Feds that bring down the criminal beefs.

KT is along way from that, also once youy have a deal with the FTC the defandant is protected by the exparte' laws(i cantr spell that right) what it means is they Feds just cant raid you and hit you with a tempoary restraining order a TRO, you can operate while you defend yourself, which KT has that right and that is big, my guess is that right will be elimanated in a few more years, however it will not affect KT, me or alot of other marketers, i havent had a problem in 10 years not all marketers are bad guys

 

[Blackjack]

This is besides the point but just so you know.. convicted felons can obtain passports.

This also besides the point, but I never made that comment. I believe Jim (av84fun) did.

 

[Johnnyt]

i know whits guys who got 5-10 years for relemarketing and they wernt lieing, I knew a girl that got 8 months for being a secatary in a telemarketing company, my point is in America we have 2.2 million people behind bars-more than any other country in the world and were not the largest country, i feel the sentencing guidlines should be reviewed, and should be applied equally to all races and we know neither of those 2 things are gonna happen, they will just build more prisions

I've always wanted to see a study of time served for 5 or 6 different crimes. 1( for those who had good high powered lawyers and 2) ones that had court appointed lawyers or sell-out ambulance chasers. If you have money you can get away with almost anyting. And don't let anyone tell you you can't buy good health either. Try getting some life saving work done on your heart w/o good healthcare Ins. As far as money can't buy you love...that's debateable, but I won't go into that as my wife of over 40 years reads AZBilliards sometimes . Johnnyt