UK “women’s” final

We disagree. Biological differences are a lot more than testosterone and strength. Women are not small men. We are different. I respect your point of view, but I think the answer is simple. Most events are open, meaning they’re open to everyone and everyone should feel free to compete there.
Biological males should not be competing against women in boxing, racing, pool, or any other sport.

Again, the message I am getting from the world right now is that the people that are best at being women are men. It’s disheartening.. Thank you for being respectful and thoughtful in your responses. I don’t think there’s anything left to be said. it’s OK that we disagree. I’m out.
 
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Leigh said:
We disagree. Biological differences are a lot more than testosterone and strength. Women are not small men. We are different. I respect your point of view, but I think the answer is simple. Most events are open, meaning they’re open to everyone and everyone should feel free to compete there.
Biological males should not be competing against women in boxing, racing, pool, or any other sport.

Again, the message I am getting from the world right now is that the people that are best at being women are men. It’s disheartening.. Thank you for being respectful and thoughtful in your responses. I don’t think there’s anything left to be said. it’s OK that we disagree. I’m out.
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I have to apologize for all men on here.

We as men, don't think we are the best at being a woman. The crazies are trying to do that.

It is very disheartening as you say it.

Also, look at the men's perspective, they are trying to say we should date them because they are women. I have no interest in dating them and I get labeled as transphobic.
 
Leigh said:
We disagree. Biological differences are a lot more than testosterone and strength. Women are not small men. We are different. I respect your point of view, but I think the answer is simple. Most events are open, meaning they’re open to everyone and everyone should feel free to compete there.
Biological males should not be competing against women in boxing, racing, pool, or any other sport.

Again, the message I am getting from the world right now is that the people that are best at being women are men. It’s disheartening.. Thank you for being respectful and thoughtful in your responses. I don’t think there’s anything left to be said. it’s OK that we disagree. I’m out.
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I am hopeful that in the overall perspective the trans in women's sports thing is just a abnormality in the path of things. The trans men are selective in what they compete in, events where men have the edge. Fair play will return. There are far more ladies than transsexual men.

Good luck in your endeavors. Please update us now and then.

Hu
 
I would like to say this: the men I have met in pool are the best. I found pool a few years ago. I walked into a pool hall with nothing but men and everyone was welcoming, lovely, asked me do you want to be coached or do you wanna be left alone? (Coached, of course.)
Five years later and now I have a great community of mostly men that I see if a couple times a week. There’s always someone I know there that wants to get in a few games. They always answer my questions and help when I ask.They were supportive when I barely knew how to hold a cue and are supportive now that I can run out (sometimes.)
The community here on AZ Billiards have proved to mostly be the same.
No need to apologize for the men - they have been awesome. Sure you get this stereotypes every once in a while, or the extra attention -I think all women probably deal with that… But that isn’t my every day experience.
Thanks for all the support.
 
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I feel that women can and will some day compete at pool on the same level. To me it’s just not as many players in the talent pool as men but as the money grows more and more women are playing. Hell when I started playing pool few women were playing in leagues . Now you have a ton playing in all the amateur leagues.
That being said it was a WOMENS tournament. They can pretend all they want but they aren’t women. When their bodies are dug up 100 years from they will look at their bone structure and dna and say this person was male so just because they have an obvious mental disease doesn’t mean we should take away everything women fought for in having their own spaces and their own sports.
 
ShootingArts said:
Flo Jo still holds a record or two all these years later. Looking at her physique, while it might be a freak from birth, I suspect with gender testing she would be disqualified as a man. There was a lady from Africa with this issue. She did nothing to cheat, her body just produced an abundance of male hormones and she was often banned from competing. Seems unjust to her, but it would be unjust to other women to let her compete with them. Across all sports, there are a few more females with these issues today. Through no fault of their own, they shouldn't be classed as female.
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i think flo jo was doped. a lot of records from the 80's have stood so long that statistically it doesn't make sense. it's obvious there were PEDs involved.

the other case, the south african runner caster semenya, i feel really saddened about. she hasn't known she had internal testicles (behind a female outer genitalia). she comes from poverty with limited medical services. but now that the olympic testing has shown that she is a hermaphrodite, she cannot compete. i completely agree on that decision, but is also of course sad for her.
 
Flakeandrun said:
What does gender have to do with pool? Nothing. However hard people want to argue the toss about it... It exists to be exploited for money... That's about it... regardless of people talking bollocks about fast-twitch muscle fibers, and differences in vision and whatever other nonsense that doesn't actually account for the gender gap in the game... Level the playing field at grass roots level, remove gender from the game entirely... Been done to death on this forum...
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The issue is that it was designated a women's event, and whether you like it or not, there are men and women's events, and that WILL NOT CHANGE. There are also events where both men and women can compete on the same playing field, but this was not one of them.
 
FranCrimi said:
The issue is that it was designated a women's event, and whether you like it or not, there are men and women's events, and that WILL NOT CHANGE. There are also events where both men and women can compete on the same playing field, but this was not one of them.
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It wont change you’re right, because of the profit made from that model. Whether it’s good for the development of players or not.
 
Leigh said:
We disagree. Biological differences are a lot more than testosterone and strength. Women are not small men. We are different. I respect your point of view, but I think the answer is simple. Most events are open, meaning they’re open to everyone and everyone should feel free to compete there.
Biological males should not be competing against women in boxing, racing, pool, or any other sport.

Again, the message I am getting from the world right now is that the people that are best at being women are men. It’s disheartening.. Thank you for being respectful and thoughtful in your responses. I don’t think there’s anything left to be said. it’s OK that we disagree. I’m out.
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Unlike the flaccid peni’ throughout this thread you make a reasonable argument without berating and disparaging anyone.

Your approach is what needs to happen. We need civil discourse not attacks. One member here calls them violent. That rhetoric is plain stupid and unproductive.

I’m a supporter of trans people but neither of these people should be competing in women’s sports.

Props to you for being a decent person.
 
garczar said:
You're nothing but a fence sitter. Just EXACTLY how do you stand on this issue? All your posts are vague and rambling as fk. Nothing but word salad.
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They’re not vague, several times I’ve expressed where forward movement could be made… stick your glasses on bud :)
Equal opportunity is not some being allowed into the circle, it’s creating a circle for everyone to thrive.
 
Flakeandrun said:
They’re not vague, several times I’ve expressed where forward movement could be made… stick your glasses on bud :)
Equal opportunity is not some being allowed into the circle, it’s creating a circle for everyone to thrive.
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Let's take an existing event that has categories for Open and Women.

Super Billiards Expo Amateur Tournament. Happening this week.

They have an Open field that everyone competes in. They have a Women's event also that only women can compete in.

What modifications to this event would you do to ensure it's success and also make it so everyone can thrive?
 
In case it hasn't been mentioned yet...

If the best player in a small town played the best player in the rest of the world, who would you bet on?

Now consider the number of women vs. men who played pool in their teens or early twenties (the formative years) - ignoring genetic differences, which group would you expect to produce the best player of them all?

I think the number of male vs female lifelong players is a (the?) major factor.

pj
chgo
 
Flakeandrun said:
What does gender have to do with pool?
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👍The balls don’t know who’s hitting them.
Flakeandrun said:
Nothing. However hard people want to argue the toss about it... It exists to be exploited for money... That's about it... regardless of people talking bollocks about fast-twitch muscle fibers, and differences in vision and whatever other nonsense that doesn't actually account for the gender gap in the game... Level the playing field at grass roots level, remove gender from the game entirely... Been done to death on this forum...
Click to expand...
 
ShootingArts said:
I once shared your opinion, however it is wrong. Females can not compete with men on a level playing field playing pool. That isn't as obvious at lower levels where a lady may be a more advanced player than a man. When it comes to the highest levels, the very best ladies fall short of the very best men. There may be the rare sport or freak in medical terms that can compete, but one in a million ladies able to doesn't change the general fact.

As I noted at a very early age, males are different than females. It may be superior strength or leverage or how the mind evolved. It may be millions of years of evolution which isn't changed in a few hundred years. Men were the primary hunters, women the primary gatherers. The evolution of different capacities from that may still define some of the differences between men and women.

Flo Jo still holds a record or two all these years later. Looking at her physique, while it might be a freak from birth, I suspect with gender testing she would be disqualified as a man. There was a lady from Africa with this issue. She did nothing to cheat, her body just produced an abundance of male hormones and she was often banned from competing. Seems unjust to her, but it would be unjust to other women to let her compete with them. Across all sports, there are a few more females with these issues today. Through no fault of their own, they shouldn't be classed as female.

No doubt the discussion should be moved to NPR if we wanted to seriously discuss it. I am not really interested as it has been beaten to death in multiple discussions in the twenty years I have been on AZB. The reasons don't matter, pool while it seems it should be, isn't a level playing field for men and women.

Hu
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Flo Jo WAS NOT A MAN!!! You dont need a test when a WOMAN has a child????
 
King T said:
Flo Jo WAS NOT A MAN!!! You dont need a test when a WOMAN has a child????
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Testing male is not the same thing as being male. I still suspect she would have tested as a male.

Patrick Johnson said:
In case it hasn't been mentioned yet...

If the best player in a small town played the best player in the rest of the world, who would you bet on?

Now consider the number of women vs. men who played pool in their teens or early twenties (the formative years) - ignoring genetic differences, which group would you expect to produce the best player of them all?

I think the number of male vs female lifelong players is a (the?) major factor.

pj
chgo
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How does the number of women players in the world stack up against the number of male Filipino players in the world?

Hu
 
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