Ultra Skin tips under the Microscope comparison.

[Vahmurka]

I put some spit on kamui tips and they burnish to a gloss very easy. If I put spit on your tips the water gets absorbed very easy by the tip

I didn't notice that much of a difference with my magic spit But on the contrary, I noticed the following when I prepare the tips's back with CA. That's just today I installed UltraSkin after Kamui, so that brought back my previous background.
I use liquid CA now (ran across pretty good one, grabs like... like nothing else ). I sand the tip glue side until "glue" word disappears and then treat that layer with CA to prevent it getting inside when glueing. The leather structure of two is different at the very first look, and while Kamui tip soaks CA so that I have to apply two layers until soaking stops - UltraSkin tip does not let any glue inside. And the nature of how CA dries on the tips is different with UltraSkins either. If I get hold of a good camcorder I could videotape the process to show what it looks like.
That said, I would rather say absorbing ability of a sanded/trimmed tip is higher with Kamui (though if not sanded, they don't let any water in, like they claim and show at their promo pictures) and not UltraSkin.
On a side note, I burnish the tips with saliva and bees wax and always get glossy finish regardless of the tip brand.

 

[TomHay]

I didn't notice that much of a difference with my magic spit But on the contrary, I noticed the following when I prepare the tips's back with CA. That's just today I installed UltraSkin after Kamui, so that brought back my previous background.
I use liquid CA now (ran across pretty good one, grabs like... like nothing else ). I sand the tip glue side until "glue" word disappears and then treat that layer with CA to prevent it getting inside when glueing. The leather structure of two is different at the very first look, and while Kamui tip soaks CA so that I have to apply two layers until soaking stops - UltraSkin tip does not let any glue inside. And the nature of how CA dries on the tips is different with UltraSkins either. If I get hold of a good camcorder I could videotape the process to show what it looks like.
That said, I would rather say absorbing ability of a sanded/trimmed tip is higher with Kamui (though if not sanded, they don't let any water in, like they claim and show at their promo pictures) and not UltraSkin.
On a side note, I burnish the tips with saliva and bees wax and always get glossy finish regardless of the tip brand.

I could change the leather treatment process and resins so I could sell special tip scuffers and chalk. I'll leave it up to a vote.

 

[JTs cuerepair]

Karomi and Born Winner LOL

So as i promised a couple of weeks ago i will review more of toms tips. This reviews include microscope pictures, dissecting tips and peeling layers.

I was very hard to get the microscope pictures to begin with. i used a iphone that i was holding with my hands to snap the picks of the objective and it took so many takes but in the end these are the best pictures i have.

The pictures are of a ultra skin hh, a karomi brown and a very cheep Chinese layered tip from ebay called "born winner"

Conclusions

Toms tips are by far superior and comparable with high end tips like kamui and moori.

The layers are even and the leather is very good quality denoted by the lack of muscle fibers consistency.

here is a tom hay layer picture

you can see the glue coming out a little from the process, the layers are tight, even thickens and orientation and the leather is without gaps , full solid piece.

now here is a karomi tip.

uneven layers, leather looks chopped up, possible air pockets.not to mention low quality leather.

born winner tip

layers look even but if you look at the leather it lookes like ground up leather mixed with glue and then slapped into sheets and then the sheets make into layers. very high level of gaps and air pockets found in most of the tips. this will equal a uneven fell around the tip increasing inconsistency.

Here is a comparison from above in the quality of the leather

born winner

tom hay

karomi

more pictures for you own conclusions and impressions


tom hay layers

tom hay under .25 magnification

No disrespect to Tom or his tips but all you did was compare Tom's tip to two other shit tips to begin with. Almost any tip would look good when compared to Karomi and Born Winner. Other person asked why you did not compare to kamui and your reply was they cost to much ?????????
Yes they do cost a little bit but if you want to convince people that Toms tips are that good then you have to compare them to other good tips not just any two shit tips you could find. Like Moori, Kamui, Talisman, Tiger Sniper, Onyx, Everest.

Like I said no disrespect to Tom or his Ultraskin tips, they just may be that good I dont know I have never used one. But just makes sence that if you want a true idea of how good something is you would compare it to other good tips not the bottom of the shelf tips.

As a cue repair man There are just to many tips on the market for me to stock all of them. I like to try a new tip myself first before I offer them to my customers. That way I can give my customers my thoughts on any tip they ask about. But the fact of the matter is with all the different tips on the market today that would cost me to much to do. So I try to stock what sells. Most cue tips co's are pretty good they will send a cue repair guy a free sample to preview there tips Like Black king did. I have asked Tom for a sample so I could try his tips before I offer to my customers but he said no. At that point I thought forget it. There are just to many other good tips out there. Maybe some day I will consider stocking them for my customers...

 

[TomHay]

Jt, there is another tip other than the cheap one you mentioned, I think it sells for over twice what my tips do.

I am sorry, I don't remember you asking for a free tip but I get a ot of PM's in a day, hard to remember.

I don't have a great mark up on my tips. I had to make a judgement call, sell my tips high and give some away with a couple few bucks in shipping and handling (mailing a tip is $1.95 just for the stamp) or offer a super price and let word of mouth kick in.

My judgement call worked out for me to where I am satisfied.

You do have a magnified version of my tip in your post, take a three times magnifying glass to one of the tips you speak of.

I mean no disrespect to you but have a couple of questions. If a customer comes in and requests my tip you can say Tom Hay wouldn't give me one free, if its a new customer based on what you are saying not be worth putting on a new ferrule and tip for free?

I get like $2.80 a tip some of the lowest installed prices I see is $25.00. A 10 pack cost $28.00, that would be $250.00 for the installer based on my $28.00 with $1.95 for the stamp. Should you give me a percentage of that $250.00 for partnering up giving free tips?

Yes, lots of tips on the market and a lot of your peers posting in here. What tip is being spoken of?

Hopefully some day I can count you as a satisfied customer, one never knows.

 

[JTs cuerepair]

Pm

PM sent Tom

 

[Vahmurka]

I was going to ask if anyone is ready to donate a Moori and a Kamui tip for microscope analysis? I could send Enigmaticul a couple, but for the sake of time it is probably better to have a US resident do this.

 

[rhncue]

I was going to ask if anyone is ready to donate a Moori and a Kamui tip for microscope analysis? I could send Enigmaticul a couple, but for the sake of time it is probably better to have a US resident do this.

I've got plenty of Kamui's but where do you find any Moori's? I haven't seen any in a year or so until lately but they don't look like nor trim as Moori's always have and now I've been told, by a knowledgeable source, that the ones that are being offered at the moment are counterfeits made in China.

Dick

 

[Enigmaticul]

I am a us resident I live in indiana

 

[chuckpilegis]

I am a us resident I live in indiana

I think meant for a US resident to donate,He is in Russia

 

[Enigmaticul]

ooo ok got it.

 

[TomHay]

Great I am in. I will be happy to Paypal the money for the tips. The Morris are on Ebay, I suggest Ozone Billiards on Ebay so we aren't buying from a John Doe. PM me with the when what where. Thanks

 

[Joe Barringer]

I've got plenty of Kamui's but where do you find any Moori's? I haven't seen any in a year or so until lately but they don't look like nor trim as Moori's always have and now I've been told, by a knowledgeable source, that the ones that are being offered at the moment are counterfeits made in China.

Dick

Dickie, who is this "knowledgeable source"?

So, the Moori's we're selling along with the Moori's that many other resellers are selling are "counterfeits made in China". Where do you come up with this stuff! More importantly why would you come up with it!

You seem to be a treasure trove of misinformation just like your uninformed buddy Joe Pechauer who we wrote about here:
http://www.cuecomponents.com/pocuetiandfe.html

 

[Dirtbmw20]

Great I am in. I will be happy to Paypal the money for the tips. The Morris are on Ebay, I suggest Ozone Billiards on Ebay so we aren't buying from a John Doe. PM me with the when what where. Thanks

Tom...... I have some Moori's and some Kamui's in stock that I will gladly donate one of each to the experiment. With my inexperience I don't get to contribute much with knowledge like everyone else so maybe this is one little way I can contribute and pay back for all the help I've received on this forum.

 

[Dirtbmw20]

Enigmatical........ I have some Moori's and Kamui's in stock that I will donate one of each for the experiement. They will most likely both be medium tips but I will check tonight when I get home after work and confirm the hardness (or softness,lol) of what I have in stock.

Shoot me your mailing address in a PM and I will get them shipped out first thing tomorrow morning.

 

[TomHay]

Tom...... I have some Moori's and some Kamui's in stock that I will gladly donate one of each to the experiment. With my inexperience I don't get to contribute much with knowledge like everyone else so maybe this is one little way I can contribute and pay back for all the help I've received on this forum.

That is MORE than nice of you. If you want some Ultraskins send me mailing info.

My prediction is ---------------one of the two will do just great, the other I don't think will cut the grade and may shock a few. I have looked at them both 3X mag.

 

[Dirtbmw20]

That is MORE than nice of you. If you want some Ultraskins send me mailing info.

My prediction is ---------------one of the two will do just great, the other I don't think will cut the grade and may shock a few. I have looked at them both 3X mag.

My pleasure sir, glad I can contribute in some way after all the help everyone here has extended to me.

I have purchased the Ultra Skins from you twice already so I have a "little" stock of the Ultra Skins left although I am out of the soft and haven't got to try the HH yet, but your tips are so affordable there is no need to give me any for free, I would rather pay you and have you give support to your local tournaments like you have been doing. I'll be placing an order for more Ultra Skins in about another 30 days, after the first of the year.

 

[rhncue]

Dickie, who is this "knowledgeable source"?

So, the Moori's we're selling along with the Moori's that many other resellers are selling are "counterfeits made in China". Where do you come up with this stuff! More importantly why would you come up with it!

You seem to be a treasure trove of misinformation just like your uninformed buddy Joe Pechauer who we wrote about here:
http://www.cuecomponents.com/pocuetiandfe.html

Sorry, I can't repeat his name as I was told in confidentiality. If he decides to get on here and let it be known what he knows that is entirely up to him. As far as the looks and trimming on the ones I purchased a short while back, from a reputable dealer I may add, both looked and trimmed differently than the 100's that I have used in the past.

Dick

 

[Joe Barringer]

Sorry, I can't repeat his name as I was told in confidentiality. If he decides to get on here and let it be known what he knows that is entirely up to him. As far as the looks and trimming on the ones I purchased a short while back, from a reputable dealer I may add, both looked and trimmed differently than the 100's that I have used in the past.

Dick

Wow what a surprise that it's confidential.

And you know what else is confidential, I was told (confidentially of course) that some cue makers and cue repair men are installing Ultra Skins and other quality black tips as Kamui's. Now, there's a revelation. Can you actually imagine any cue maker or repair man stooping to such a level! Can you Dick?

 

[rhncue]

Wow what a surprise that it's confidential.

And you know what else is confidential, I was told (confidentially of course) that some cue makers and cue repair men are installing Ultra Skins and other quality black tips as Kamui's. Now, there's a revelation. Can you actually imagine any cue maker or repair man stooping to such a level! Can you Dick?

Absolutely no one that I am aware of. Does it happen? Probably. Just like many used car salesmen, home owner lenders and cue supply dealers. They hype their product over the competition immaterially if it is better or inferior. It is for this reason that you need to get to know whom you are dealing with and, through experience, are getting the straight truth and services. I have people that I order supplies through whom I completely trust and know what to expect when ordering. The same with services. 95% of all tips that I install is done in the presence of the customer. In fact, many of the tips that I install the customer furnishes. Since I started boycotting Kamui tips, I have told all of the people who like them to bring their own and I install for 10.00. This policy is costing me around 10.00 a tip in profits but I feel better as I feel that I'm not propagating the fleecing of customers.

Dick

 

[Joe Barringer]

Absolutely no one that I am aware of. Does it happen? Probably. Just like many used car salesmen, home owner lenders and cue supply dealers. They hype their product over the competition immaterially if it is better or inferior. It is for this reason that you need to get to know whom you are dealing with and, through experience, are getting the straight truth and services. I have people that I order supplies through whom I completely trust and know what to expect when ordering. The same with services. 95% of all tips that I install is done in the presence of the customer. In fact, many of the tips that I install the customer furnishes. Since I started boycotting Kamui tips, I have told all of the people who like them to bring their own and I install for 10.00. This policy is costing me around 10.00 a tip in profits but I feel better as I feel that I'm not propagating the fleecing of customers.

Dick

No, definitely! You have no idea how many are doing so. Anyway, that's an excellent policy you have but a real pain in the butt. I understand your decision to do so as it saves a lot of aggravation. Excellent to hear of your stance regarding Kamui.

As far as Moori, there are counterfeits just as there are counterfeits of Kamui and other popular tips. It's an inherent problem but Moori is still in business producing a quality product and imports have been cut but they are still available here in the USA. And the counterfeits are easily recognizable by anyone but the best assurance is to know your source.

I would still like to hear from your "knowledgeable source" and perhaps you an get him to chime in with his proof.