Understanding Aiming as a Shot Picture

[mnorwood]

Been away from the game for a while. I pursued other interests and widened my experience. One activity that I took up was traditional archery. I had some very knowledgable and gracious teachers and friends help me develop my shooting skills. I have managed to win multiple archery tournaments and shoot high in USA archery individual achievement. One thing that helped my archery develop when I did not have the benefit of having sights was understanding my aiming as a shot picture. In other words its the visual frame that I see each time I shoot in very precise detail. I do not ever recall a book or thread here on AZ as addressing aim where a shot picture is learned and maintained. The closest aiming system to this that was shown to me was Gene's aiming system that emphasized dominant eye placement. After several years of studying and practicing archery I have a new understanding of my pool shot aiming. I understand pool aiming as a visual discipline as much as anything else. I am an archery coach now and aiming is the most difficult thing to teach. Its such a personal and in your head kind of thing.

Thoughts???

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I do not ever recall a book or thread here on AZ as addressing aim where a shot picture is learned and maintained..

There's lots of (passionate) conversation about things in the visual field and how to align them. Is that what you mean by shot picture?

pj
chgo

 

[alphadog]

Glad to see you back contributing. I shot pistols at a very early age and archery as a teenager , so I have a little sense of what you speak. Sure hope this thread doesnt go off the rails but I sure wouldnt bet against it.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Dr. Dave's website has link to Auming instruction.

 

[mnorwood]

There's lots of (passionate) conversation about things in the visual field and how to align them. Is that what you mean by shot picture?

pj
chgo

I hope this thread doesn't get too crazy so let me give you some more details about what I am talking about. In what is called bare bow archery you do not have sights. In order to learn how to aim without them you have to anchor your arrow in the same place each time and you have to see the string and arrow in the same place each time you shoot. You also have to see the riser in the same place each time and then see the shaft of the arrow and the tip in the same place. Only when all of your alignment is consistent do you have the ability to adjust what you are seeing. Just like in pool you always look at your target last.

Here is the key point: there are many different effective aiming systems that share a common shortcoming and that is the fact that they are hard to describe effectively. The concept of shot picture is that you are seeing the same thing every time. Just like that piece of art on your wall that you forgot how you got it or why you bought it in the first place but every time you look at it its the same. This is what I mean about a shot picture in pool. Seeing my cue, the cue ball, the object ball and the pocket all the same way each time. I think aiming systems are controversial because the learner has no consistent reference point (shot picture) to comprehend them and while useful for some not so useful for others. Its a personal thing and difficult to teach.

 

[garczar]

I hope this thread doesn't get too crazy so let me give you some more details about what I am talking about. In what is called bare bow archery you do not have sights. In order to learn how to aim without them you have to anchor your arrow in the same place each time and you have to see the string and arrow in the same place each time you shoot. You also have to see the riser in the same place each time and then see the shaft of the arrow and the tip in the same place. Only when all of your alignment is consistent do you have the ability to adjust what you are seeing. Just like in pool you always look at your target last.

Here is the key point: there are many different effective aiming systems that share a common shortcoming and that is the fact that they are hard to describe effectively. The concept of shot picture is that you are seeing the same thing every time. Just like that piece of art on your wall that you forgot how you got it or why you bought it in the first place but every time you look at it its the same. This is what I mean about a shot picture in pool. Seeing my cue, the cue ball, the object ball and the pocket all the same way each time. I think aiming systems are controversial because the learner has no consistent reference point (shot picture) to comprehend them and while useful for some not so useful for others. Its a personal thing and difficult to teach.

Very well stated.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Only when all of your alignment is consistent do you have the ability to adjust what you are seeing. Just like in pool you always look at your target last.

That sounds like what I think of as stance.

This is what I mean about a shot picture in pool. Seeing my cue, the cue ball, the object ball and the pocket all the same way each time.

Do you mean being visually aware of those things and how they're arranged for each shot?

pj
chgo

 

[mnorwood]

That sounds like what I think of as stance.

Do you mean being visually aware of those things and how they're arranged for each shot?

pj
chgo

Yes.... To make sure you are seeing them the same way each time that's where the body, head and eye position comes in. From shooting pool for 20 years and shooting archery for 6 I believe that after you have sufficient competence at seeing a shot from a consistent body position which in archery is called set up then you can effectively comprehend it from other odd positions. I believe the hardest part of shooting over a ball or bridging off the rail is rooted in insufficient visualization of a normal shot. I also think that many struggles that I have had with using extreme English is also a visual problem. Another benefit of more practice is when I can adjust my shot picture when using extreme english. Don't ask me to fully explain that its a tough concept.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Do you mean being visually aware of those things and how they're arranged for each shot?

Yes.... To make sure you are seeing them the same way each time

I think seeing the shaft/stroke, CB, OB, and pocket simultaneously is key - of course they can't all be in focus at once, but visual awareness of them can be practiced and improved.

pj
chgo

 

[bbb]

first of all
WELCOME BACK....
another way i think you are trying to say is overlaps?
i jokingly once said to someone about aiming
how thin a slice does mrs giordano want of this salami?
thats how you cut in a shot
is that sort of what you mean?

 

[straightline]

I think with archery and other purely marksmanship routines the environment tends to narrow down the shot. With pool, the visual environment changes on every shot. The shooter needs to identify the desired shot, address the relevant concerns, and then simply plug into it.

 

[Terry Aeschliman]

When I was flinging arrows, I shot bowhunter as opposed to bare bow. Anchor points more defined. At 60 feet, a white 3" target with a quarter sized circle in the exact center. Once I had my stance, I stared at the quarter sized circle and without looking elsewhere, raised the bow, drew, exhaled and released the arrow. Never having consciously focused on anything other than that little circle. We called it "instinctive shooting".
There is some of that in the early stages of pool education but as your level of play becomes more elevated, the instinctive part is gone. Pre shot routine, breathing is there but aiming is much more defined and refined

 

[dr_dave]

Been away from the game for a while.

You have been away a long time. Welcome back!

I do not ever recall a book or thread here on AZ as addressing aim where a shot picture is learned and maintained.

I have lots of info and advice concerning proper and consistent visual alignment and how to achieve it on my "vision center" resource page. Check it out. And I have much more information on closely related topics here: Eyes and Vision resource page.

Enjoy!

 

[FranCrimi]

I hope this thread doesn't get too crazy so let me give you some more details about what I am talking about. In what is called bare bow archery you do not have sights. In order to learn how to aim without them you have to anchor your arrow in the same place each time and you have to see the string and arrow in the same place each time you shoot. You also have to see the riser in the same place each time and then see the shaft of the arrow and the tip in the same place. Only when all of your alignment is consistent do you have the ability to adjust what you are seeing. Just like in pool you always look at your target last.

Here is the key point: there are many different effective aiming systems that share a common shortcoming and that is the fact that they are hard to describe effectively. The concept of shot picture is that you are seeing the same thing every time. Just like that piece of art on your wall that you forgot how you got it or why you bought it in the first place but every time you look at it its the same. This is what I mean about a shot picture in pool. Seeing my cue, the cue ball, the object ball and the pocket all the same way each time. I think aiming systems are controversial because the learner has no consistent reference point (shot picture) to comprehend them and while useful for some not so useful for others. Its a personal thing and difficult to teach.

I really like what you're saying here. I think it makes perfect sense. I'm going to try this next time I can get to a pool table. Pool rooms are still closed here in NYC.

 

[Brookeland Bill]

I hope this thread doesn't get too crazy so let me give you some more details about what I am talking about. In what is called bare bow archery you do not have sights. In order to learn how to aim without them you have to anchor your arrow in the same place each time and you have to see the string and arrow in the same place each time you shoot. You also have to see the riser in the same place each time and then see the shaft of the arrow and the tip in the same place. Only when all of your alignment is consistent do you have the ability to adjust what you are seeing. Just like in pool you always look at your target last.

Here is the key point: there are many different effective aiming systems that share a common shortcoming and that is the fact that they are hard to describe effectively. The concept of shot picture is that you are seeing the same thing every time. Just like that piece of art on your wall that you forgot how you got it or why you bought it in the first place but every time you look at it its the same. This is what I mean about a shot picture in pool. Seeing my cue, the cue ball, the object ball and the pocket all the same way each time. I think aiming systems are controversial because the learner has no consistent reference point (shot picture) to comprehend them and while useful for some not so useful for others. Its a personal thing and difficult to teach.

Are you describing visualization which is common among professional golfers and encouraged by golf instructor?

 

[bbb]

first of all
WELCOME BACK mnorwood....
another way i think you are trying to say is overlaps?
i jokingly once said to someone about aiming
how thin a slice does mrs giordano want of this prosuitto
ie how do you "slice" the object ball to send it in the desired direction
thats how you cut in a shot
is that sort of what you mean?

 

[straightline]

Deja vu.

 

[straightline]

There it is again.

 

[cowhornz]

I agree with "shot picture". Without getting too much into it, I think a shot picture ties into theories on "quiet eye".

Basically you "see the shot" whether before and/or after alignment or getting down on the shot; then right before shooting the "shot" is a picture in your head of the information the individual needs to make the shot (eg. pocket, object ball, table path, etc.) And this is where quiet eye takes place to ingrain the shot in mental consciousness. I'm shooting from the mental picture, rather than what my eyes see in front of me (I know this sounds confusing or hard to understand for some people).

An added reinforcement is also mentally visualizing the shot going in the pocket within this mental shot picture before shooting. The above paragraph and this happens real quick in the head, and is part of my shot routine or procedure.

"Shot picture" is important and I think the ability of one to shoot with their eyes closed supports this theory. On times I've shot with my eyes closed, I basically freeze the shot picture in my head, look away, and shoot to what's in the mental shot picture. I also think some people are better at creating or maintaining this picture.

Another point I'll add is that, a shot picture helps me with visual illusions that may occur, which lower level players may more frequently fall victim to. As long as I'm able to maintain the shot picture, everything else is blocked out and distractions won't affect the shot as long as my focus is on the shot picture and of course if I "pictured" the "shot picture" correctly.

 

[chevybob20]

Whole shot.

I can't remember the guys name that used to teach it in the NE.