Unknown APA rule enforced at LC

Yes. Some other sections of team manual are a little vague. In 8 ball rules it says if balls touch each other, it is a re-lag. In back of book under definitions, it says ball in pocket or ball touching side rail is loss of lag. In some leagues you cannot cross centerline. Centerline means nothing in apa.
 
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buckshotshoey said:
Yes. Some other sections of team manual are a little vague. In 8 ball rules it says if balls touch each other, it is a re-lag. In back of book under definitions, it says ball in pocket or ball touching side rail is loss of lag. In some leagues you cannot cross centerline. Centerline means nothing in apa.
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Its to bad pool doesnt have one set of rules.
 
buckshotshoey said:
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Hi all. New member here. I understand some of the frustration I seen on this topic. But some of the responses I have read here are disturbing. Yes the rule book should be a little more clear. When you leave room for interpretation, someone invariably will come up with an answer that suits them. But in apa, its about sportsmanship.....not just obscure rules. This is a case of two players with two different styles of play. Common sense should prevail. If you waited till his ball was back to the head string before you hit yours, I could see his point. But that doesn't sound like the case. When I hear people saying you should aim at his ball, or purposely play mind games, I see bad sportsmanship. In pic, my opponent had a miraculous lag. It did not touch side rail, and I congratulated him on the best lag I ever seen. It was not simultaneous, as he hit after my ball made contact with rail....but it was close. I guess pool just isn't life and death, win at all cost, affair to me.
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regardless of whether the call is right you have the right attitude. you would be welcome on my team any time.
 
lorider said:
regardless of whether the call is right you have the right attitude. you would be welcome on my team any time.
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Thank you. I have upset a couple of my team captains in the past.
I remember one time I double cued on a shot while on the hill and
called a foul on myself. I thought my opponent deserved better......
and I didn't deserve to win on a foul. I ended up losing the match.
But believe me when I say it didnt feel all that good to lose that one.
I didn't want the win if I had to put one over on somebody. My captain
at the time said he didn't EVER want to see me do that again. Wait for
the opponent to call the foul. He was pretty upset. And as team captain,
I can understand he wants to do what's best for the team. And it is within
the rules to not admit to a foul. But I didn't feel good about it. I finished the
session with that team but moved on after that.

Don't get me wrong....Im a ruthless predator on the pool table. I would play a
Lock up safe against God, Jesus, the Virgin Mary, and Mother Theresa.....all in
the same tournament if I have too! But I won't violate my ethics.
 
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Let me guess. He called your lag illegal only after seeing he had lost the lag. There should be a second part to that rule that the other player must call illegal lag before YOUR ball hits the end rail. I'd bet a million dollars he never would have called it if he had a better lag than you did. What a tard.

TheNewSharkster said:
Just got back from Lincoln City. They put on a great tourny. I did run into a interesting rule I had never heard of before.

I lagged with my opponent. I admit I am not a quick lagger. I get into my stance and like to do a couple practice strokes. I am just about to pull the trigger and my opponent gets down and lags. I lag a second or two behind him. Not so much as to gauge the speed of his lag.

I leave the ball about an inch from the rail. My opponent declares my lag illegal. I asked why and he explains that I need to start my lag before his ball contacts the bottom rail. Apparently I didn't do that (it must have been close though). I told him I have read the manual and played APA for years and that I knew it wasn't a rule. I call over the ref.

The ref says it is the rule and that we must re-lag. Fine no problem. However, I was curious how many undocumented rules were being enforced.

So after my match I went and asked the LO for clarification. She explained that some people will wait to see how close the lag will be and abuse the system and that the rules do say both players lag at the same time. She also told me this is enforced at vegas.

That is fine with me. I agree with the logic. I do not agree with something like that not being in the rule book or the bye laws.
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Buckshotshoey,

I like your style. Have fun, respect your opponent, and play your best.

Welcome to AZ Billiards!

I hope to see more posts from you.

-Blake
 
TheNewSharkster said:
Please read the response celophanewrap got back from the National APA office regarding this subject.
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Guessing you didn't actually read my post.

As I said before, the reply from the national office is dead wrong.
They said "there's no rule about the shots being simultaneous".
There IS a rule, it's printed in black and white in both rulebooks.
 
CreeDo said:
Guessing you didn't actually read my post.

As I said before, the reply from the national office is dead wrong.
They said "there's no rule about the shots being simultaneous".
There IS a rule, it's printed in black and white in both rulebooks.
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Sorry about that. I just figured that since the national office confirmed it wasn't a rule that the debate was finished.

For the record I don't have a problem with this rule. I have seen books that suggest when you lag that you wait to see what your opponent does and then lag after.

Unfortunately on a 7' table it only takes the ball a second or two to reach the bottom rail and I was not be deliberately slow and pulled a great lag and it didn't count. I think my opponent was a butt hurt little whiner.
 
RussPrince said:
Let me guess. He called your lag illegal only after seeing he had lost the lag. There should be a second part to that rule that the other player must call illegal lag before YOUR ball hits the end rail. I'd bet a million dollars he never would have called it if he had a better lag than you did. What a tard.
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That is correct. Honestly I am not even sure if his ball hit the rail before I pulled the trigger. I wasn't watching for it at all.
 
CreeDo said:
Guessing you didn't actually read my post.

As I said before, the reply from the national office is dead wrong.
They said "there's no rule about the shots being simultaneous".
There IS a rule, it's printed in black and white in both rulebooks.
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I would guess that those folks are drawing a line between definition and rule. For instance, it also defines "push out", but in most APA formats (or at least any one that would require use of the team manual) there is no push out allowed. I suppose it's an interpretive thing. However, the Team Manual also says that APA is the highest authority concerning any league rulings. So I would imagine their interpretation is the correct one.
It just seems to me that if this were to occur again, for any of us, that common sense could prevail. This is The APA for God's sake, I don't know that the break is a real advantage here, it's how the game starts.
In all my years in the APA I have never seen anyone win the lag then run 7 straight racks of either 9 or 8 ball. If that were to happen I don't think I'd mind so much giving up the break, I'd love to have a front row seat for it
 
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buckshotshoey said:
View attachment 332164
Hi all. New member here. I understand some of the frustration I seen on this topic. But some of the responses I have read here are disturbing. Yes the rule book should be a little more clear. When you leave room for interpretation, someone invariably will come up with an answer that suits them. But in apa, its about sportsmanship.....not just obscure rules. This is a case of two players with two different styles of play. Common sense should prevail. If you waited till his ball was back to the head string before you hit yours, I could see his point. But that doesn't sound like the case. When I hear people saying you should aim at his ball, or purposely play mind games, I see bad sportsmanship. In pic, my opponent had a miraculous lag. It did not touch side rail, and I congratulated him on the best lag I ever seen. It was not simultaneous, as he hit after my ball made contact with rail....but it was close. I guess pool just isn't life and death, win at all cost, affair to me.
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Well here in the real world of pool this is an illegal lag.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
Unfortunately on a 7' table it only takes the ball a second or two to reach the bottom rail
and I was not be deliberately slow and pulled a great lag and it didn't count.
I think my opponent was a butt hurt little whiner.
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DEFINITELY. I can't believe someone called it.
That's the kind of guy where, if you make the game ball and the cue ball is just spinning in place,
and you pick it up, they will try to call it a loss of game.

Celophanewrap said:
I would guess that those folks are drawing a line
between definition and rule.
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Nah, they just don't know their own rulebook. It's in the definitions section of the team manual,
but it's in the actual rules section of the 8 ball and 9 ball rulebook.
A definition isn't supposed to be flexible anyway, it's just a rule by another name.
 
SloMoHolic said:
Buckshotshoey,

I like your style. Have fun, respect your opponent, and play your best.

Welcome to AZ Billiards!

I hope to see more posts from you.

-Blake
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Thank you. Playing someone that doesn't know the rules of their league isn't very fun sometimes. There is a simple solution to avoid most of the bulls**t. No matter what league you are in, no matter how well you think you know the rules, re-read your rule book cover to cover at least once a year. Also it really is the team captains responsibility to know the rules as interpreted by the league authority. I remember playing a guy that quoted a rule from when APA was Bush League. It was the frozen ball rule and claimed I committed a foul because one of the balls didn't go to another rail. All I had to do was hit the object ball first and then have cue ball hit same rail after contact. Under APA rules, that is a good hit.
 
Try waiting for other guy to lag first and then try to pocket his ball up table in the corner pocket.

Let us know how that works out.
 
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