UPA Sanctioning - Q&A

MikeJanis said:
Frank simply put. The UPA web site states "GUARANTEED PRIZE FUNDS" and that is exactly what is expected. Especially from the UPA who has been known in the past to demand that the GUARANTEED PRIZE FUND be paid in advance by the promoters. Also, because the UPA is "The Governing Body Of Men's Professional Pool".

Due to the facts that there was a change in mandate and not everyone knew about this and the contridiction on the UPA web site about GUARANTEED PRIZE FUNDS and then NOT having the guarantee on the prize funds. This alone created hostility and anger by some.

Frank, honestly based on these facts the negativity is deserved. When you state GUARANTEED PRIZE FUNDS on your web site for the largest men's professional tour in the USA this is exactly what is expected. The UPA let us, the fans down by not doing exactly as stated. Yes Frank, even I am a huge fan of what the uPA has championed over the years. The UPA appeared to create a benchmark for all others that follow in the UPA's footsteps. Now even that dream is diminishing.

This is why in an earlier post I suggested that you remove the words GUARANTEED PRIZE FUNDS from your website.

Also note that the negativity is not directed at you but at the UPA due to the failure of non-payment of funds in a UPA sanctioned event which according to the current UPA web site states that the funds are guaranteed.

Honestly Frank, it's a huge disapointment that the UPA allowed this to happen, not just this time but on 3 occasions.


Mj
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What's good for the goose is good for the gander...right? In that spirit Mike...you stated that prize money guarantees are exactly what the players expect.

1. Please list all UPA member players who were unaware that the UPA did not provide prize money guarantees?

2. What is your basis for the above representation?

3. When did those representations come to your attention?

I think you see what my point is. You seem to be conducting a sort of inquisition here.

And maybe there SHOULD be an inquisition...I'm not a pro don't follow UPA business matters closely.

I am just interested in fairness and as you have offered numerous suggestions to Mr. Alvarez (whose name I had never heard of until he posted here) let me offer one to you.

If you are going to rip into a man or an organization...which you have done in spite of suggesting that you have not intended to...just come out with it.

You clearly have an agenda here and again...quite possibly you SHOULD have one. I wouldn't know.

But if you do, I think you should disclose it because otherwise, your boring repeatedly into the issue of prize guarantees and suggesting that the players EXPECT such guarantees to exist comes off as sour grapes of some sort.

Regards,
Jim
 
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As God Is My Witness, I Shall Never Go Hungry Again

JAM said:
2. Is there any way that you could work with the BCA and maybe use the BCA's ranking system?

JAM a/k/a Jennie
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Lordy, I don't know nothing 'bout ranking systems, Miss Scarlett.... but at one time the UPA had "Fast Larry" Gunninger (Grindinger) ranked #37 and this without ever having won a single match. This ranking put him ahead of of some very notable Pros.

Butterfly McQueen




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2. Sanctioning guidelines are ultimately determined by our players. Players have not yet made prize fund in escrow a ?mandate? for UPA sanctioning. Until then, the UPA (players) will continue to deal with such issues. Please know that the UPA board is very much for this requirement. However, this is not yet the will of the players. Perhaps this will change in the future.


The above statement is the entire crux of the lack prize money. If the players themselves do not wish to allow the UPA to force guaranteed payment then the players pretty much deserve what they got. As unpleasant as this situatiion may be they knew the potential problems prior to sending in their registration money. It shouldn't have come as a surprize that they didn't get paid. Sad but true!
 
Has anybody read the Main Page of AzBilliards website yet today?

Filipino players are embroiled in their own pool politics right now, with Efren Reyes speaking out and leading the way! :eek:

JAM
 
JAM said:
Has anybody read the Main Page of AzBilliards website yet today?

Filipino players are embroiled in their own pool politics right now, with Efren Reyes speaking out and leading the way! :eek:

JAM
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That's why they came over here. To learn how to f*** pool up from the best. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
That's why they came over here. To learn how to f*** pool up from the best. Johnnyt
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I can't believe that article. That is something else! :eek:

JAM
 
perhaps this incident will pormpt people to do a little research on the past fiascos of the UPA

they are truly a shady bunch
 
smashmouth said:
perhaps this incident will pormpt people to do a little research on the past fiascos of the UPA

they are truly a shady bunch
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It has gone through different managements, for lack of a better word, and the structure of the UPA has changed.

For the first time in a very long time, the players themselves seem to be behind the UPA this time, and I thought that was great. Frank Alvarez as UPA President seems to have everybody's support within the organization. Rodney Morris is a great Player Representative, one who everybody respects.

This is tragic what is going on right now, and it is pool politics at its finest.

I'm not sure how it's going to all end, but I hope the players benefit in long run.

JAM
 
smashmouth said:
perhaps this incident will pormpt people to do a little research on the past fiascos of the UPA

they are truly a shady bunch
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"slippery when wet" may be more descriptive:)
 
smashmouth said:
Alvarez has a chance to step up to the plate right now, he's choosing not to

more of the same imo
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Didn't you read his post(s)? He clearly stated that the PLAYERS themselves were the one's who decided that they didn't want the UPA to provide the muscle to guarantee any prize money.

What isn't clear?
 
a)he's not being honest
b)nothing to stop him from paying up right now

check your facts little doggie
 
smashmouth said:
a)he's not being honest
b)nothing to stop him from paying up right now

check your facts little doggie
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What FACTS do you rely on to prove that the UPA is under any obligation to pay off for a dead beat promotor when the players knowingly and willingly played in an event that they KNEW did NOT have prize money guarantees from ANYONE?

I'll be interested in your reply.

Regards,
Jim
 
Hello Everyone. Sorry that I have been absent. Since our last "chat" I have come to Vegas and am working the Predator booth. If anyone would like to come and say 'hi' that would be great. I have been very busy as you might imagine with a myriad of ... situations. I do not intend to hit and run, however please know that it is my intention to make truth known and then be back another day.

I do believe that a lacking area of the UPA has been information, I assure you that this is simply because I am flooded and I have an entire industry telling me what we should do. Please know that I do care about the industry's thoughts on matters thus I seek to consider yours.

I will start addressing a few posts. I type too fast for myself so please overlook typos. I will try to be in for the next 30 mins.

Regards to all,

Frank
 
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MikeJanis said:
Jenny, you have to understand that the BCA is a self governing body and they own the rights to the WPA sanctioning/points. They only loaned it to the UPA and the BCA has every right do do anything with that they see fit. Don't waste your time. Its done!

As far as boycotting the BCA goes,,, I can't say I haven't thought about it but I am definately not in a position to recomend this. Heck, I am uncomfortable just mentioning it. The BCA does have its merits and they should not be discounted because they choose not to work with me or the UPA. They do have some standout programs but definately not many in the area of professional pool.

Frank, please correct me if I am wrong.
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Mr. Janis,

Hello. The BCA did not "loan" the status to the UPA. Two facts came into play:

1. The BCA is not a sports body and is not a player association in any way shape or form. This is the primary reason for the sale of the BCAPL to Mr. Griffin. The BCA's purpose for existance is to essentially to market pool tables, etc, as well as foster growth of the sport by way of education and other much needed items.

Please keep in mind that the only NON sports organization that is a member to the WPA is found here in the U.S. and that is the BCA.

The BCA is not equipped to deal with player issues. Of course we are all connected however to very different parts of the indusry. This is demonstrated by the BCA's attempt to "take control" of rankings system, yet actually turns around and outsources them.

I believe that the BCA did not understand the ramifications of what they did when they did it. However, if the BCA's WPA board would have met on the matter the player representation by the UPA could have easily pointed this matter out.

2. Charlie Williams essentially stood up to the industry and stated "the players will be in control of matters/affairs that deal with the players." And rightly so. There was no "loaning" of the governing status.

I hope this helps...
 
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30k could repair years of UPA distaste. Imagine how word would spread about the UPA who took one for the players... AZB is a dream demographic. We have representatives from just about every pool hall in the country along with many world wide. The collective group here is 99.9% right when it comes to the state of pool and what it needs...

Look at it as an investment in the future...
 
Blackjack said:
Frank

This is David Sapolis. 3 years ago I spoke with you about forming a players association that would represent the players in these situations. You assured me at the time that a "players association" was not necessary, and IIRC, it was because the UPA had changed the sanctioning guidelines to avoid situations like this.

I'm a little confused because of several things that were brought up when I was trying to assist Danny Harriman in getting paid monies owed to him by Brady Behrman. There are contradictions in what was said then, and what is occurring now.

1) Were changes made when you took control of the UPA in the sanctioning guidelines (in reference to money being placed in escrow prior to the event) ? If so why?

2) Why is the escrow issue being decided by "the will of the players" ???

That makes no sense. The UPA leadership, yourself and "the board" have a duty to ensure that the players do not get stiffed as they have in the past. If the board is "very much in favor of this requirement" then hold a board session and put it up for a vote and pass it. Your statement basically says that players are voting it down - and we all know that is not the case.

I would also like to know how the players will be paid. To date, if we go back to 2005 - Danny and the other players have still not been paid by Brady - and after the last payment Brady made, you basically said you didn't want to discuss that issue with me anymore in our conversations. I respected that and never brought it up again to you, until now - because here we are again, and I know as well as you how difficult it will be to collect money from anybody.

As leaders in this game, we have a duty to pay the players. We have a duty to give 1000% to ensure that the mistakes of the past are not repeated. I know Chuck Bobbit is doing his best by selling off personal property to raise the money to pay the players. I feel as if you should be operating in the same type of desperation mode as President of the UPA - working 24/7 to ensure that the players get the money they earned -even if it comes out of your won pocket (just like Jay Helfert has done in the past) and no other events should be held until the bills are paid for this one.

I ask these questions respectfully because you and I have been down this road this before, and I'm baffled that the UPA is back in this same situation.

In closing, I would like to say that a players organization of any kind would be very instrumental to represent the players in situations like this. Having the UPA represent them is a conflict of interest IMO. This organization will serve as a voice for the players, and can turn up the heat on the UPA and those that need to pay the players.
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Hello David,

I hope all is well with you.

1. No, changes were not made. I "adopted" an almost 4 year old state of affairs.

2. The escrow issue is a major issue in the minds of players and promoters. This is not one that the UPA can enforce without the support of players. On a side note, I do believe (this is my belief) that things are going to change soon in light of all situations.

3 The Danny Harriman situation was completely unique of all situations and in the UPA's stance on the matter is not a part of the 3 instances of posted money.

4. I don't recall telling you "I don't want to talk about it anymore." It sounds pretty harsh and generally I'm pretty good at being more tactful. So if in fact I said this I was probably frustrated myself and powerless, meaning I was a player rep not an actual officer of the UPA who is able to enforce policy or direct leaders. Whatever the case, I apologize.

5. As a "leader" of the game I do give 1000%, even on Sunday. I have taken a very different perspective of things then many others. Not all others, buy many others. However, this being said I cannot over promise or "guarantee" something that I do not have direct control over. I hope you understand.

Good to hear from you...
 
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